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Sound proofing for rehearsal studio
Old 4th January 2008
  #1
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Dougie Murray's Avatar
 

Sound proofing for rehearsal studio

Hi everyone,

My wife and I are building a rehearsal studio in and old butcher's shop. We would like to know what is needed to sound proof the first of the two rooms we are building as much as possible.

The attached graphic is a bird's eye view of the room with the dimentions and features. This is the back section of the building and both doors need to be in place as it is a fire escape.

Cheers
Attached Thumbnails
Sound proofing for rehearsal studio-room.jpg  
Old 4th January 2008
  #2
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avare's Avatar
 

Welcome Dougie and wife!

Great introduction with the drawing. Unfortunately it is not enough information for a reasoned response. This is from another forum, but the information listed is all the same in terms of giving useful responses. More information please!

Andre
Old 5th January 2008
  #3
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That really depends on what level of isolation you need. Theres the room within a room concept where you build a room completely with in the other room, double or triple layers of sheet rock, etc. Even within the room, extra layer of sheet rock increase the STC rating of the wall. Just need to cut down some noise? Used mattresses! One thing to be sure of, air leaks move a lot of sound - thats what sound is: moving air. A tightly sealed room goes a long way.

One mistake people make: Sonex, curtains, carpet etc, don't isolate, they reduce reflections. In fact, making your room too dead makes you turn up louder!

If you are just rehearsing, get some electronic drums, some $99 Behringer VAmps, and a headphone system and you don't have to sound proof anything!
Old 7th January 2008
  #4
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For proper isolation you need to deal with sound that moves outside through the air and sound that moves through the structure. Room in a room deals with the structure very well. Double drywall helps reduce the resonant frequency of the structure you're building and also provides additional attenuation of sound in both directions.

That said, all the little stuff matters too. Every outlet is a hole in your isolation. Every light switch, every light can, etc. All of those need additional isolation whether putty pads or better yet having them mounted in MDF boxes and caulked tight. Speaking of caulk - caulk everything. Every 90 degree drywall joint needs to be caulked. Caulk the wall bottom plate to the floor, etc.

Green Glue between layers of drywall is another additional step to provide better isolation by acting a visco-elastic layer to turn some of the vibrations into heat.

Bryan
Old 8th January 2008
  #5
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Dougie Murray's Avatar
 

Cheers guys,

This is a business venture for my wife and I to fill in the need for rehearsal space for bands in my home town.

I should note that accoustics are not my main concern I just want this room to be as quiet as possible to the outside world.

I'm gathering that it's not what's in the room but the air escaping? PERFECT! Most of the walls are cement rendered or plain brick on the inside, so all I need to do is seal up any gaps. The room will be nice and bright the bands wont have to turn up so loud. Much of it is already "room within a room" with most of the walls being brick-cavity-brick. The single brick wall I may need to insulate a bit further.

The main issue here will be the windows, the two doors and the ceiling <- that I forgot to include with my original post . I need to seal off the two windows, but be able to keep them in place if we leave the premesis. What do I do for the two doors? And I need to build a ceiling to cap off the room - how do I do it?

Is drywall plaster board - I would know it as gyproc? And what on earth is green glue? I'm in Australia
Old 8th January 2008
  #6
JWL
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Dougie, airtightness is just one part of the equation. Don't forget mass. And, don't forget construction techniques. Installing the same materials in the right way can gain you tens of dB of isolation (ie, 2-leaf double wall).

Are you doing this construction yourself, or will you be hiring it out? Either way, I highly recommend getting Rod Gervais' book, Home Recording Studio: Build It Like The Pros. The section on isolation will be invaluable to you as you build or supervise contractors.

For that setup, I'd lean toward building modular inside-out walls (John Sayers' design, see his forum) to create the 2-leaf build. Also it will make the room sound better.

Don't forget about HVAC, if this is a business there is likely building code you will need to comply with.
Old 8th January 2008
  #7


Brick walls are good. For the doors, make sure they seal well and consider adding a foyer with another door.

For windows - if you don't ever want them to open, set another pane of laminated glass on the inside or outside of the existing window.

What is the roof and ceiling like?



-tINY

Old 8th January 2008
  #8
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Dougie Murray's Avatar
 

The existing ceiling is just sheet iron bolted to hardwood beams. If anything this would amplify sound and is too high above the room to safely work on.

What I want to do is build a roof to cap off the room that rests on the existing freezer and back walls. How do I go about this?

Everything is being built by a family friend who is a house builder by trade and hasn't had experience with rehearsal studios before. I will be assisting.
Old 8th January 2008
  #9
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Get these two books:

Amazon.com: Sound Studio Construction on a Budget: Books: F. Alton Everest

and the other one on the page by Rod Gervais.

They are mandatory reading for anyone building a studio or rehearsal space.

m
Old 8th January 2008
  #10
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In general though...for an operation like you're looking into...I wouldn't worry with specialized materials and real "studio doors" and things like that. Just the basic materials that every builder uses but careful techniqes and a lot of them.

Use solid core doors, build up the frames, caulk everything, use multiple layers of drywall, green glue in between layers, tape and mud every layer, caulk edges, use duct putty in all openings like light switches and plugs, etc.

Another thing...you have to monitor every step of the way if using a crew. They're used to doing standard construction and won't see the reasons or benefits to going these extra steps for proper construction to have some isolation benefits. If you get those two books, they have many drawings and such that you can show the guys so they'll understand how to do certain things like the staggered walls, or resiliant channels, or whatever you end up using.

I'd think in your situation where you don't have a lot of space to just kill, I'd look to staggered wall construction instead of double walls. I've used a lot of practice spaces that share with other bands and they're all loud. You can't possibly isolate each room...well you could, but if you had that much money to begin with, you'd probably put in a starbucks or something that you'd actually make some money with, not a rehearsal space for a bunch of broke musicians.

later,

m

Last edited by chetatkinsdiet; 8th January 2008 at 05:14 PM.. Reason: adding info
Old 9th January 2008
  #11
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Dougie Murray's Avatar
 

cheers m,

I should note that most of the walls are constructed already, I'm only building a 2m sction to turn the rear of the building into a room. The whole building itself is just open space with a freezer in it.
Old 10th January 2008
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chetatkinsdiet View Post
Get these two books:

Amazon.com: Sound Studio Construction on a Budget: Books: F. Alton Everest

and the other one on the page by Rod Gervais.

They are mandatory reading for anyone building a studio or rehearsal space.

m

I have never read that book, but F. Alton Everest really does knew his stuff.
Old 11th January 2008
  #13
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Dougie Murray's Avatar
 



BUMP
Old 11th January 2008
  #14
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lucey's Avatar
Quiet Solution

very efficient
Old 11th January 2008
  #15
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jamsmith's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucey View Post
Quiet Solution

very efficient

Nice tip. Added to my materials source list!
Old 11th January 2008
  #16
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Dougie Murray's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucey View Post
Quiet Solution

very efficient

I'm in Australia unfortunately. Does look impressive.
Old 11th January 2008
  #17
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gullfo's Avatar
 

concrete is a good conductor of sturcture borne sound as well as blocking air borne sound. is there any immediate neighbors? what type of rehearsals? rock? new age? choir? dance-techno? people dancing? it will all make a difference in terms of what you need to do. interior walls, ceiling, floor even to reduce the noise to a level sufficient to meet legal noise requirements. plus safety, you have fire escapes which mush remain accessible, and oddly enough, people need to breath so fresh air in and stale air out will matter. comfort for customers is necessary in order to effect return business.
Old 12th January 2008
  #18
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Dougie Murray's Avatar
 

I play in a thrash metal band - ie Slayer, Metallica, etc... and we would probably be the loudest band in there heh. In the room there will be a 1,000W PA system - that I will only allow to run at about 2/3 capacity at the verry most - then add to that the drums, amps and cabs the bands will be bringing with them.

We're happy to have any genre of band or ensemble use the room, though I will take preference to original bands over cover acts. The room would be way too small for dancing.

The nearest neighbours are 4m away. They live in a sturdy brick house.

With HVAC its probably going to be go outside for fresh air and to cool down or put a jumper on if your cold. It's just too expensive to worry about.

I should add that the floor is a cement slab and will be carpeted - yet another item i forgot to mention
Old 19th January 2008
  #19
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Dougie Murray's Avatar
 

Thanks for everyone's help.

I had my father, the builder and a studio technician in and it has been decided that the freezer will be demolished and the front and rear of the building will be modified so that two separate rooms will be built from scratch.

I'll hopefully be posting pics of the construction as it happens.

Cheers,

Dougie
Old 19th January 2008
  #20
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avare's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dougie Murray View Post
Thanks for everyone's help.

I had my father, the builder and a studio technician in and it has been decided that the freezer will be demolished and the front and rear of the building will be modified so that two separate rooms will be built from scratch.
Great stuff! Have you read the two books recommended in this thread? I have too often read about people spending lots of money without knowing what they are doing acoustically and having to tear down what they did in order to get good results.

Andre
Old 20th January 2008
  #21
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Dougie Murray's Avatar
 

No need to buy the books as Phil the technition has had 30 years experience building and treating studios. Plus the books are American and many of the building materials aren't available in Australia.
Old 20th January 2008
  #22
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avare's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dougie Murray View Post
No need to buy the books as Phil the technition has had 30 years experience building and treating studios.
Good luck!

Quote:
Plus the books are American and many of the building materials aren't available in Australia.
One book is American and one book is european.

Construction principles are the same throughout the world. John Sayers in Australia has designed studios across the world. Some materials are universal in general and there are resources on the web listing hundreds of suppliers for insulation. Some products detailed such as zero door hardware can be replaced with products from Raven (located in Australia).

Good studio building is 90% and 10% construction.

Andre
Old 23rd January 2008
  #23
Gear Maniac
 

Check with Wenger. They offer tons of options in modular and permanent practice rooms that are soundproofed.
Old 30th January 2008
  #24
Gear Head
 
Dougie Murray's Avatar
 

Tragic news guys,

The freezer inside the building is insulated with asbestos. Theis freezer was to be demolished to make way for the next room, but now with the asbestos the demolition alone would cost over $10,000. We'll just seal up the exposed areas and leave it well alone.

Goodbye rehearsal rooms.

My wife and I are going to start an alternative wear boutique instead.

Cheers for everyone's help.
Old 2nd February 2008
  #25
Gear Maniac
 

KEEP the freezer!!!! how else would you keep the beer cold???
Old 2nd February 2008
  #26
Gear Head
 

Yep, I use Quietsolutions "quietrock" and it works really well. We measured it on my DB meeter and it really cuts things down.
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