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Correct settings on Genelecs after Sonarworks readings.
Old 13th October 2020 | Show parent
  #151
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akebrake's Avatar
 

Just took a coffee outside in the garden (nice weather) so I haven't seen your latest post...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muskman View Post
... As it is now I have three corners filled floor to ceiling with rockwool 1 roll per corner.
Keeping RW in its transportation plastic envelopes is a practical "quick fix".
Absorption can be improved if one opens the plastic bags, let the wool expand (lower GFR and more area) Then cover with new larger plastic envelopes or other coverings.

See example here on efficient corner traps.
Masurements after initial treatment, pls help me improve and fix issues!


Quote:
The 160cm is the best practically and sound-wise.
Agree with Jason. You have a good starting point for the speakers at 160cm with no sub. Mark spkr and mic pos with tape on the floor. Can you improve it further?

Take a look at these threads.

Speaker placement methods

Finding the sweet spot in the room

EDIT:
Monitor placement against the wall -> flatter low freq response?

Last edited by akebrake; 15th October 2020 at 09:57 AM.. Reason: Another link added
Old 13th October 2020 | Show parent
  #152
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by akebrake View Post
Just took a coffee outside in the garden (nice weather) so I haven't seen your latest post...



Keeping RW in its transportation plastic envelopes is a practical "quick fix".
Absorption can be improved if one opens the platic bags, let the wool expand (lower GFR and more area) Then cover with new larger plastic envelopes or other coverings.

See example here on efficient corner traps.
Masurements after initial treatment, pls help me improve and fix issues!




Agree with Jason. You have a good starting point for the speakers at 160cm with no sub. Mark spkr and mic pos with tape on the floor. Can you improve it further?

Take a look at these threads.

Speaker placement methods

Finding the sweet spot in the room
Hey, thanks!

I’m sure I can improve it further. So are you ‘suggesting’ the areas I’m trying to work with could be speaker placement issues then? I know that’s a million dollar question!

The speakers are maxed out at 130cm apart and right up to the front wall. I’m not able to push them out any wider so my only options are to narrow them or bring them away from the front wall! Baring in mind a reasonable position within the room! 160cm has been the best average placement for me so far. It’s just those big nulls are gonna affect kick drums and bassline writing/mixing which I can use graphic EQs/headphones to reference with if I have to!

Cheers
Old 13th October 2020 | Show parent
  #153
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Jason Foi's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muskman View Post
Hey, thanks!

I’m sure I can improve it further. So are you ‘suggesting’ the areas I’m trying to work with could be speaker placement issues then? I know that’s a million dollar question!

The speakers are maxed out at 130cm apart and right up to the front wall. I’m not able to push them out any wider so my only options are to narrow them or bring them away from the front wall! Baring in mind a reasonable position within the room! 160cm has been the best average placement for me so far. It’s just those big nulls are gonna affect kick drums and bassline writing/mixing which I can use graphic EQs/headphones to reference with if I have to!

Cheers
Your sub is going to fill those nulls in, leave the speakers at 160 and move mic forward/backward in 5cm incriments to see if LP is optimised. Then toe in speakers to aim 5-8cm behind your head. After all that use sub to combat sbir/fill nulls. Then sonarworks ices the cake
Old 13th October 2020 | Show parent
  #154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muskman View Post
t’s just those big nulls are gonna affect kick drums and bassline writing/mixing which I can use graphic EQs/headphones to reference with if I have to!
Cheers
Those big nulls are a result of SBIR.

Treat all the relevant surfaces except the floor with the correct, depth, density and flow resistivity to trap the reflections that are causing the nulls.
Attached Thumbnails
Correct settings on Genelecs after Sonarworks readings.-screen-shot-2020-10-13-5.32.07-pm.jpg  
Old 14th October 2020 | Show parent
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Foi View Post
Your sub is going to fill those nulls in, leave the speakers at 160 and move mic forward/backward in 5cm incriments to see if LP is optimised. Then toe in speakers to aim 5-8cm behind your head. After all that use sub to combat sbir/fill nulls. Then sonarworks ices the cake
Great idea I’d not considered adjust the slight angles on the speakers to be fair! I have tried the length readings but didn’t upload because they put me in a position way too far away from the speakers, almost in the middle of the room!

Would you recommend leaving the speakers as they are like 2” away from the front wall?
I’m starting to wonder if I should remove the plasterboard behind each speaker and make an absorber of sorts out of some suggested material to help with SBIR? Just a thought!
Old 15th October 2020 | Show parent
  #156
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akebrake's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muskman View Post
...I’m sure I can improve it further. So are you ‘suggesting’ the areas I’m trying to work with could be speaker placement issues then?
Yes, together with listening position for a start. Then improve the SBIR as Thrill suggested.


1. Listening position. Two unknown: Spkr and mic pos? Where to start? Hen & Egg situation. Where it looks cool?

If you read, carefully (several times), the linked threads in post 153 one can spot similarities in the tip from Boggy and the others.
I have added a third link. (A post from John M Brandt)

My conclusion: The listening position have a lot to do with modes.
Test: With your current gear. Sub in a frontal corner driving all modes hard. Then find the listening /mic position with the best (smoothest) bass reponse.

Moving the mic 5cm step by step and analyzing a large number of REW plots is fine if you are picky.
A much quicker way is to use Pink PN (Periodic Noise) and watch result (on the RTA screen) in REAL TIME while moving the mic.
As Boggy, John Mulcahy (REW author) and bpape (GIK) suggested.
Mark that position!

Set up like this: Generator & RTA window example from 5.20 (beta 20). No sweep!
REW layout might have change slightly since then. It’s now beta 61! )

Pic REW setup:
Correct settings on Genelecs after Sonarworks readings.-pink-pn-5.20-copy.jpg
2. Speaker position. (mains)
Quote:
Quote: The speakers are maxed out at 130cm apart and right up to the front wall.
You are close to mode 0.2.0 (91 Hz null) at that position...
Pic 2 from Hunecke mode calc.

Move speaker by hand left/right, up down while watching the screen.
Find the smoothest spkr Position. Mark it!
If you couldn’t improve it, fine. Then go to the next step.

3. Speaker position SUB
Place the sub head hight in the listening position! (Reciprocal style)
Check Sub positions (Smooth Low end) moving the mic near the floor at possible sub positions.”The likely winner” (Jeff Hedback tip)

4. All together now!
Place the sub in that new improved(?) position. Mic in listener pos. Still Pink PN + RTA
Measure L + Sub spkr while gradually fade in the sub and carefully observe if the FR improves or get worse.
Try which Sub method work best. 85 Hz ”Genelec” style or 8020 full range + Add sub below that (Low Pass)
Then R + Sub.
Check how a split feed from L & R to Sub L&R input works.

Note: This is how I would try to find Speaker and Listener positions and Level/ X-over tweaking from the information collected in this forum.

May be the result is an improved sound fairly quick & cheap which is a good thing. But...

It’s probably so, that the big valley (90-200Hz) will stay the same as your room lacks bass absorption.
Attached Thumbnails
Correct settings on Genelecs after Sonarworks readings.-pink-pn-5.20-copy.jpg   Correct settings on Genelecs after Sonarworks readings.-hun-020.jpg  
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