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Which corner bass trap profile is more effective?
Old 9th August 2020
  #1
Studio treatment.. here is my first measurement!

Hi there , so I will be treating a small studio space, wanted to get some ideas on the design, specifically the corner bass traps between 2 variations on their effectiveness, depth vs width, if you could have a look at the attached images.

Also was wondering if I should generally aim for higher density roackwool? say 100kg/m3 , would the bass trapping ability be more effective if I get higher density?

Any help would be appreciated !

Many Thanks!
Old 9th August 2020
  #2
Lives for gear
 
Jason Foi's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazztronaut View Post
Hi there , so I will be treating a small studio space, wanted to get some ideas on the design, specifically the corner bass traps between 2 variations on their effectiveness, depth vs width, if you could have a look at the attached images.

Also was wondering if I should generally aim for higher density roackwool? say 100kg/m3 , would the bass trapping ability be more effective if I get higher density?

Any help would be appreciated !

Many Thanks!
At what depth does fiberglass bat insulation become the better choice over rock wool?

Read all the links in post 5
Old 9th August 2020
  #3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Foi View Post
thanks!
Old 9th August 2020
  #4
so I'm still worried about the particles from the rockwool escaping from the panels as I'm quite allergic to dust and start sneezing, I've treated my room before with rockwool in the past without much problem. Was wondering if sealing off the panels with panels will affect the low freq much? was thinking to add a layer of foil in between the rockwool and a thin layer of material for high freq absorption.
Old 13th August 2020
  #5
this is an update to the design any comments :-)

I'm thinking to use polyester instead of the glasswool and rockwool, anyone had experience with that also?

thanks!
Attached Thumbnails
Which corner bass trap profile is more effective?-screenshot-2020-08-13-11.41.23.jpg   Which corner bass trap profile is more effective?-screenshot-2020-08-13-11.41.19.jpg   Which corner bass trap profile is more effective?-screenshot-2020-08-13-11.41.27.jpg   Which corner bass trap profile is more effective?-screenshot-2020-08-13-11.41.43.jpg   Which corner bass trap profile is more effective?-screenshot-2020-08-13-11.41.59.jpg  

Which corner bass trap profile is more effective?-screenshot-2020-08-13-11.42.14.png  
Old 13th August 2020
  #6
With a room that's small you will need way more bass trapping. What do the measurements show?

Caruso Iso Bond works great if you can find it/afford it.
Old 13th August 2020
  #7
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
With a room that's small you will need way more bass trapping. What do the measurements show?

Caruso Iso Bond works great if you can find it/afford it.
Unfortunately I don't have access to Caruso where I'mbut have found similar polyester form which are in the same density range and will use that to do some tests to see how it performs.

3000 - 5000 pa.s /m2 seems to be the best performing based of the depth of the corner superchunk.

Is there no way to determine the depth of a triangular superchunk ?anyone?
Old 13th August 2020
  #8
Lives for gear
 
avare's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazztronaut View Post
Is there no way to determine the depth of a triangular superchunk ?anyone?
I answered this in the other thread you have. More explicitly it is what is referred to geometrically as the height of the triangle.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazztronaut View Post
I'm thinking to use polyester instead of the glasswool and rockwool, anyone had experience with that also?
Yes, with Caruso Iso-Bond WLG040: Need help with next steps for 15 m² room
Old 2 weeks ago
  #10
Hi all, just made my first measurements with REW and have attached the results. The room is pretty much empty except for studio monitors and a small desk.

Could someone have a look at my measurements and see if I'm on the right track?

Followed this guide on calibrating REW - @ Soundman2020 https://www.digistar.cl/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=5

There are problems but nothing looks terrible? Not too sure about the waterfall graph, which is expected in an untreated room.

You can find the dimensions of the room in my previous post. I've already got some polyester panels with different density and I'm planning to place them at first reflection points on either side walls and measure to see how they perform.
Would be happy if someone could chip in! MANY THANKS!
Attached Thumbnails
Which corner bass trap profile is more effective?-l-r_baseline_empty-room.jpg   Which corner bass trap profile is more effective?-studio-treament-design.jpg   Which corner bass trap profile is more effective?-current-measurement.jpg  
Attached Files
Old 2 weeks ago
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazztronaut View Post
Hi all, just made my first measurements with REW and have attached the results. The room is pretty much empty except for studio monitors and a small desk.

Could someone have a look at my measurements and see if I'm on the right track?

Followed this guide on calibrating REW - @ Soundman2020 https://www.digistar.cl/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=5

There are problems but nothing looks terrible? Not too sure about the waterfall graph, which is expected in an untreated room.

You can find the dimensions of the room in my previous post. I've already got some polyester panels with different density and I'm planning to place them at first reflection points on either side walls and measure to see how they perform.
Would be happy if someone could chip in! MANY THANKS!
Measure left and right separately.

Also turn down the level( to around 75db) as your measurement is showing distortion( usually clipping) in the lows and low mids.

Lastly just looking at your spectogram, first reflection points are the least of your worries. You have strong resonances at 40hz, 64hz, 76hz and a really strong one at 126hz. Deal with these first before anything.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
Measure left and right separately.

Also turn down the level( to around 75db) as your measurement is showing distortion( usually clipping) in the lows and low mids.

Lastly just looking at your spectogram, first reflection points are the least of your worries. You have strong resonances at 40hz, 64hz, 76hz and a really strong one at 126hz. Deal with these first before anything.
Hey thanks! Yeh I followed the calibration guide by soundman2020 and it recommended a 80dbc. Could you explain how I would go about looking at the distortion tab in REW?

Oh and another question there isn’t much going on from 20hz to 30hz does that mean my speaker aren’t even outputting that low ?

Thanks
Old 2 weeks ago
  #13
Gear Maniac
 
SF_Green's Avatar
Looks like you're getting some good info here. I would just add this recent article from Hugh Robjohns where he is upgrading his home studio and spends a considerable amount of the article discussing the bass traps, and includes the design graphics. Thought it might be helpful: I enjoyed the read.

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniq...oom-sound-good
Old 2 weeks ago
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazztronaut View Post
Hey thanks! Yeh I followed the calibration guide by soundman2020 and it recommended a 80dbc. Could you explain how I would go about looking at the distortion tab in REW?

Oh and another question there isn’t much going on from 20hz to 30hz does that mean my speaker aren’t even outputting that low ?

Thanks
That's 80dbc if you are measuring speakers separately not together, even though the REW manual recommends 75db.

You click the distortion tab and it shows you distortion characteristics and background noise in your measurement. Right now your room is measuring a Noise rating of 30. The recommended NR for a control room is an NR of 10 and NR 15 is max. Right now your background noise is too high.

Lastly yes your monitors aren't outputting much below 32hz.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by SF_Green View Post
Looks like you're getting some good info here. I would just add this recent article from Hugh Robjohns where he is upgrading his home studio and spends a considerable amount of the article discussing the bass traps, and includes the design graphics. Thought it might be helpful: I enjoyed the read.

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniq...oom-sound-good
cool! just checked out the article...

no measurements showing the performance and no actual design for corner bass trap with the membrane.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #16
Gear Maniac
 
SF_Green's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazztronaut View Post
cool! just checked out the article...

no measurements showing the performance and no actual design for corner bass trap with the membrane.
Yes, just the quick schematic, but with measurements and materials (photo #3 ). You were able to see that, right?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #17
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
That's 80dbc if you are measuring speakers separately not together, even though the REW manual recommends 75db.

You click the distortion tab and it shows you distortion characteristics and background noise in your measurement. Right now your room is measuring a Noise rating of 30. The recommended NR for a control room is an NR of 10 and NR 15 is max. Right now your background noise is too high.

Lastly yes your monitors aren't outputting much below 32hz.
hmm my window is facing a road that might explain the high noise rating?

or could it be my mic pre? if I lowered the preamp vol on my audio interface would that reduce noise perhaps?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazztronaut View Post
hmm my window is facing a road that might explain the high noise rating?

or could it be my mic pre? if I lowered the preamp vol on my audio interface would that reduce noise perhaps?
Its background room noise.

Is your studio space a room within a room? Does it have ventilation and if so is it a split unit or central air? Is the computer located in same space? How are the seals around doors and windows?

It is a true challenge to create a space that has a noise rating of 10 or even 15.
Even 20 can be acceptable .

Most home studios i've seen here are in the 30-40 range which pose a real challenge when monitoring. These ratings puts them into these categories:

NR 30 Private dwellings, hospitals, theaters, cinemas, conference rooms
NR 35 Libraries, museums, court rooms, schools, hospitals operating theaters and wards, flats, hotels, executive offices
NR 40 Halls, corridors, cloakrooms, restaurants, night clubs, offices, shops
Old 2 weeks ago
  #19
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
Its background room noise.

Is your studio space a room within a room? Does it have ventilation and if so is it a split unit or central air? Is the computer located in same space? How are the seals around doors and windows?

It is a true challenge to create a space that has a noise rating of 10 or even 15.
Even 20 can be acceptable .

Most home studios i've seen here are in the 30-40 range which pose a real challenge when monitoring. These ratings puts them into these categories:

NR 30 Private dwellings, hospitals, theaters, cinemas, conference rooms
NR 35 Libraries, museums, court rooms, schools, hospitals operating theaters and wards, flats, hotels, executive offices
NR 40 Halls, corridors, cloakrooms, restaurants, night clubs, offices, shops
Many thanks for the info!

The studio space is located in a high rise apartment building :-P so yes a private dwelling. When I did the measurements I made sure the air-con was off and the computer was dead quiet. As mentioned I'm facing a window opening on the 10th floor but can still hear cars passing by. I do not think the window openings are double glazed otherwise they would be much quieter, its silicon sealed on the interior as well as the exterior.

I do plan to use this specific room as a studio space, so maybe I could sound proof it some how, make the window opening air tight? All other walls are concrete structure. Not too worried about not getting any sun light in here as this was the initial intent to treat the front facing wall.
Old 1 week ago
  #20
just an update on the the super chunk build, eager to test them out!
Attached Thumbnails
Which corner bass trap profile is more effective?-img_1005.jpg   Which corner bass trap profile is more effective?-img_1006.jpg   Which corner bass trap profile is more effective?-img_1007.jpg   Which corner bass trap profile is more effective?-img_1008.jpg  
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