The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Have to decide between two rooms..
Old 7th August 2020
  #1
Have to decide between two rooms..

Hi everyone,

I am moving with my studio and got the opportunity to choose from one of these rooms.

If I am correct, the larger room should produce less flutter echo and therefore should be the better option. However, there is almost no space in the corners to place my bass traps.. ( 4 x 50cm x 50cm x 250cm)

The smaller room would fit perfect with the traps but sounds very persistent at the moment (lots of ugly flutter echo).

I added a picture with the three different positions I am thinking about right now. Looking forward to the blue solution at the moment, but I would be glad if you drop your opinions on that - maybe some ideas how to place bass traps in the big room.

Thanks!
Attached Thumbnails
Have to decide between two rooms..-room_options.jpg  
Old 7th August 2020
  #2
Lives for gear
 
Kyle P. Gushue's Avatar
I would go bigger room all day. The smaller room is quite small and would be difficult to get accurate bass response. The larger room will have a better chance at good bass response.

There are plenty of corners in the room for traps, including wall/ceiling junction. There is space along most of the rear wall for trapping, wich is a good place for it.
Old 7th August 2020
  #3
Lives for gear
 
Starlight's Avatar
 

Kyle is right: size wins.

Without knowing the context - isolation requirements and building possibilities - my first thought would be to use the larger room but take the opportunity to create a clean rectangle with the door in the centre of the wall and create yourself a small store room and/or machine room, as per my adjustment of your sketch.
Attached Thumbnails
Have to decide between two rooms..-idea2.jpg  
Old 9th August 2020
  #4
Thanks a lost for your ideas and for the beautiful variation of my sketch.

So it will be the large room with the blue setup. I thought the corners where the most important place for bass traps but if wall/ceiling also works, lots of my problems would be solved.

I got two more questions if you don't mind. Is it ok to flip the blue position, so the speakers would aim towards the windows, or does that make a difference to the current direction? And also, how important is it to have the listening spot at about 1/3 of the rooms length? Thinking about getting a bit closer to the wall.
Old 9th August 2020
  #5
Lives for gear
 
Kyle P. Gushue's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by curry36 View Post
Thanks a lost for your ideas and for the beautiful variation of my sketch.

So it will be the large room with the blue setup. I thought the corners where the most important place for bass traps but if wall/ceiling also works, lots of my problems would be solved.

I got two more questions if you don't mind. Is it ok to flip the blue position, so the speakers would aim towards the windows, or does that make a difference to the current direction? And also, how important is it to have the listening spot at about 1/3 of the rooms length? Thinking about getting a bit closer to the wall.
Its generally best to have any asymetrical things in the room behind the listening position. You would also be blocking the windows with the rear wall treatment, or would have to build the treatment around in. You can try with the speakers aiming at the windows and see if it works despite of these compromises.

The 38% rule of thumb is a starting point, so you can test different positions and find what works best. These might help.

Boggy on speaker location

Speaker placement methods


How to find the listen position

Finding the sweet spot in the room
Old 10th August 2020
  #6
Lives for gear
 
avare's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
Kyle is right: size wins.
Why are both of you remarking with no significant facts?
Old 10th August 2020
  #7
Lives for gear
 
Starlight's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by avare View Post
Why are both of you remarking with no significant facts?
I feel like the head teacher has just caught us smoking behind the bike shed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundman2020 View Post
Room volume for small rooms is critical: you want as much air volume as you can possible get inside the room
Summary:
- For a control room, the best shape for the actual boundary walls, floor and ceiling, is rectangular.
Significant facts I do not have. Sorry. I recall reading enough times comments like Soundman2020's, where someone wants to build non-parallel walls or block off a section of their room and the recurring advice is that small rooms need as much volume as possible in a rectangular room.

As both rooms are the same height, the larger room seems the obvious choice given the facts we have.

Andre, feel free to make my error(s) public for the sake of curry36 and his room.

Curry36, as for switching ends, symmetry is important from the listening position forward in the room. It looks like that can be achieved by facing either way in your room (if switching ends also includes centering the door in a new wall).

Last edited by Starlight; 10th August 2020 at 09:42 AM.. Reason: grammar
Old 10th August 2020
  #8
Lives for gear
 
Kyle P. Gushue's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by avare View Post
Why are both of you remarking with no significant facts?
My comments were based on the dimensions. Im not sure where my error was, if there was one.
Old 10th August 2020
  #9
Lives for gear
 
avare's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle P. Gushue View Post
My comments were based on the dimensions. Im not sure where my error was, if there was one.
One of the reasons I wrote nothing to OP is lack of detail..For starters what type of music and number of musicians. You are perceived as one of the experts here. You jumped in with minimal knowledge. If the OP does not understand the generalization that bigger is better odds are there several shortcomings.
Old 10th August 2020
  #10
Lives for gear
 
Kyle P. Gushue's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by avare View Post
One of the reasons I wrote nothing to OP is lack of detail..For starters what type of music and number of musicians. You are perceived as one of the experts here. You jumped in with minimal knowledge. If the OP does not understand the generalization that bigger is better odds are there several shortcomings.
That's fair. I find it difficult to strike a balance between answering a question with "50 more questions", and giving thoughts so general they are useless. I still do struggle to find a case where the smaller of these rooms would be more desirable. Perhaps if isolation was required and budget was too limited to handle the large room. Although perhaps not articulated well, my intent was more of a conversation starter than definitive end. I've been trying to find a better approach to communications here, and its still a work in progress.

Anyway i appreciate the criticism and will keep it mind for future responses. Still working on becoming a true expert...
Old 11th August 2020
  #11
Lives for gear
 
avare's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle P. Gushue View Post
That's fair. I find it difficult to strike a balance between answering a question with "50 more questions", and giving thoughts so general they are useless. I still do struggle to find a case where the smaller of these rooms would be more desirable. Perhaps if isolation was required and budget was too limited to handle the large room. Although perhaps not articulated well, my intent was more of a conversation starter than definitive end. I've been trying to find a better approach to communications here, and its still a work in progress.

Anyway i appreciate the criticism and will keep it mind for future responses. Still working on becoming a true expert...
Thank you. Particularly appropriate to this forum this was regarding journalism. You can tell a true story or you can tell a short story, but you can rarely tell a true short story.

Take care my friend
Old 11th August 2020
  #12
Lives for gear
 
Kyle P. Gushue's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by avare View Post
You can tell a true story or you can tell a short story, but you can rarely tell a true short story.

Take care my friend
Well said pal.
Old 11th August 2020
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle P. Gushue View Post
That's fair. I find it difficult to strike a balance between answering a question with "50 more questions", and giving thoughts so general they are useless.
I am glad that you were trying to help me even though I should have provided more information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by avare View Post
One of the reasons I wrote nothing to OP is lack of detail..For starters what type of music and number of musicians.
You are right about my questions being very general and I understand that this makes it difficult to give a proper recommendation. Let me describe the situation a bit more detailed.

The one and only purpose of this room is composing and mixing. As an electronic producer and film musician I rarely record any acoustic instruments besides when working with an orchestra (and then it's obviously not getting recorded by myself and in this room). I use a lot of synthesizers and creative In The Box instruments, so the most important thing for me would be to have clarity of the "stage" in front of me. Being able to place everything as precise as I can in a three-dimensional room. At least as much as my A7X allow me to do. I feel like this is important especially for the type of music I am doing because it is very atmospheric and you are rarely following any blue prints of how exactly the mix should sound like. Also when doing this type of music, sound design, composition and mixing all goes hand in hand with each other.

When I prepared my old room, I managed to tame the bass pretty well with my 4 corner bass traps, however I felt that the stereo image, even though it wasn't bad at all, could have been a bit better. But depth graduation was still a mess. Like if I could "hear" the changes on reverb settings, but I couldn't clearly "see" it. My old room had the exact same dimensions as the smaller room I posted above, but the speakers were placed alongside the short axis (which was certainly a mistake for a room this small I guess). The 4 bass traps went from bottom to ceiling, aprox. 50cm diameter, and the 16 pannels were this ones from Basotect (100x50x10cm each, 8 on the ceiling and 8 on the walls). In the end I balanced everything with Sonarworks Reference.

I'll add a sketch of my old room so maybe you can find some mistakes that I shouldn't repeat this time.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf OldRoom.pdf (1.04 MB, 9 views)
Old 11th August 2020
  #14
Lives for gear
 
Starlight's Avatar
 

Some of the basic principles are in adrumdrum's post, no. 31, in the topic Building/Designing small studio.
Old 14th August 2020
  #15
Thanks again @ Starlight !
Old 14th August 2020
  #16
I'd like to add one last question. In case that I decided to invert the shorter and the longer wall within my setup, in what way would that affect the sound negatively? The back wall would reflect earlier due to the shorter distance, but wouldn't it also stabilize the stereo image if the sidewalls are more far away?
Old 14th August 2020
  #17
Lives for gear
 
Starlight's Avatar
 

Have a read what one of the forum's professsionals advises, here.
Old 15th August 2020
  #18
Thanks, that pretty much answered my question.
๐Ÿ“ Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 4700 views: 276550
Avatar for ZT Scheer
ZT Scheer 2 hours ago
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
๐Ÿ–จ๏ธ Show Printable Version
โœ‰๏ธ Email this Page
๐Ÿ” Search thread
๐ŸŽ™๏ธ View mentioned gear
Forum Jump
Forum Jump