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Is this a bad vocal booth?
Old 15th September 2020 | Show parent
  #31
Quote:
Originally Posted by coreyspencer View Post
What does your booth even sound like As it is now? I really would not be putting much more money into "treating" it with foam. my acoustic treatment plan for a room like this. Would be to try to use carpeting (long fiber carpeting works best) as a material, or to suspend some kinda heavy fabric from the ceiling different lengths widths (doesnt have to be floor to ceiling if you dont want). Could implement a sort of diaphramatic design into wall panels: make a frame out of 1"x2" pine board, Staple carpet remnants onto the frame. Then carpet the other side. Make another frame and do it again. Fastening each carpeted frame together. Repeat this process to reach a desired depth. What youre looking to do is sandwich the carpet together while leaving air space inbetween the layers because of the 1"x2" pine framing.
It sounds like ass, I recorded a song and the acoustic sounded so bad I thought maby I'm a bad artist or I suck at producing. I moved my equipment to my friends house and did the same song and it sounded a millions times better.
I have the cm 800t the clone of the sony c800g mic. I'll upload a sample below of the bad recording I did in the room. I deleted the raw vocals and session cause it sucked so I only have a finished version that still sucked but sounds better at my friends house.
Attached Files

savage rough copy.mp3 (2.17 MB, 493 views)

Old 15th September 2020 | Show parent
  #32
The same song sounds a million times better, and like a radio record just by switching the room with same equipment.
Old 15th September 2020
  #33
Are you using this for more than a booth to record vocals in? Or what
Old 15th September 2020 | Show parent
  #34
Quote:
Originally Posted by coreyspencer View Post
Are you using this for more than a booth to record vocals in? Or what
Just vocals nothing else
Old 15th September 2020
  #35
Do you use headphones when tracking vocals? the vocal sound itself seemed fine. If youre looking for more of a close, intimate, in your face type vocal sound. The diaphramatic carpet absorber design I mentioned would help control some mid-high band stuff. Another design would be to make a drop ceiling type treatment. Peg board faced , R-30 filled ceiling. Maybe even stuff a comfy chair in the room too. Literally anything besides buy that $355 piece of foam.
Old 15th September 2020 | Show parent
  #36
just did a quick raw vocal sample below
Attached Files

savage vocals raw.wav (15.14 MB, 476 views)

Old 15th September 2020 | Show parent
  #37
Quote:
Originally Posted by coreyspencer View Post
Do you use headphones when tracking vocals? I do not know what to say anymore, the vocal sound itself seemed fine. Maybe perhaps put up just a vocal track. Minus the beat.
I can't explain but I can hear it in the headphones when I'm tracking. I can here the reflections in the room and I can tell the vocal would sound better without it.
Old 16th September 2020 | Show parent
  #38
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Kyle P. Gushue's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by coreyspencer View Post
FOAM bass traps arent effective.......

For a vocal booth such as this. the acoustic treatment I have described actually is more effective in several areas of improvement: in meeting the budget, purpose requirements of the room, and all around is going to make more of a difference to how the room sounds/behaves than a couple of $355 pieces of foam.
Two wrongs don't equal a right. All carpet does is absorb highs, leaving the little room even more boxy and boomy.

Your simply spreading myths that have long been disproven. No reputable text or design incorporates carpet as you describe.
Old 16th September 2020
  #39
Thats why I also suggested the drop ceiling filled with R-30 and faced with pegboard part of the design. A balance of these diaphragmatic carpet absorbers and this drop ceiling ought to do the trick. As this treatment is vocal specific. As this is a vocal booth.

Quote:
No reputable text or design incorporates carpet as you describe.
As if new things aren't discovered everyday. Or opinions, ideas change over time..... You know people once thought the earth was flat and that you could fall off the edge of the world. Today we know that earth is in fact a sphere.
Old 16th September 2020 | Show parent
  #40
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Kyle P. Gushue's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by coreyspencer View Post
Thats why I also suggested the drop ceiling filled with R-30 and faced with pegboard part of the design. A balance of these diaphragmatic carpet absorbers and this drop ceiling ought to do the trick. As this treatment is vocal specific. As this is a vocal booth.



As if new things aren't discovered everyday. Or opinions, ideas change over time..... You know people once thought the earth was flat and that you could fall off the edge of the world. Today we know that earth is in fact a sphere.
Carpet has no place as an acoustic treatment. You didn't discover anything, you just spread a long de-bunked myth.
Old 16th September 2020
  #41
It is an opinion that carpet is not a good acoustial material. Not a fact. Carpet has a density and a mass. Any object with a density and a mass will affect the transmission of sound waves. You should know this, that is acoustics 101..... ..What you are saying is that my Acoustical Designs that i specifically drafted for this particular vocal booth is not going to do a darn thing? That its going to make the room sound worse? Im quite sure you didnt read my complete build out description. Or even listened to the OPs audio samples.... after listening to the samples and watching the video of the vocal booth in its current state. My acoustical treatment designs are accurate for what is needed and will be efficient for what is possible within the confines of the structure and existing treatment.
Old 16th September 2020 | Show parent
  #42
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Kyle P. Gushue's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by coreyspencer View Post
What you are saying is that my Acoustical Designs that i specifically drafted for this particular vocal booth is not going to do a darn thing? Im quite sure you didnt read my complete build out description. Or even listen to the OPs audio samples.... after listening to the samples and watching the video of the vocal booth in its current state. My acoustical treatment designs are accurate for what is needed and will be efficient for what is possible within the confines of the structure and existing treatment.
Post the acoustic test data for the specific model of carpet you have in your "design".
Old 16th September 2020
  #43
This will be my first acoustical design challenge

the sound absorption coefficient for thick carpet is roughly .5-.7 on average. I could get really specific with these numbers for a specific material but then onshott1 would have to purchase my Acoustic treatment design as a "kit" to remain faithful to the numerical data. That my specific design would then be based on.

With no actual dimensions given about the vocal booth (HXLXW) I cant solve the Mean Absorbtion Coefficient for the booth. With out these 2 data sets I can not solve the total Room Sound Absorbtion or the Room Constant. Which would ultimately be the answer to your question. How much of this particular treatment is needed, and to what effect will it have?
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/a...tion-d_68.html
Old 16th September 2020 | Show parent
  #44
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Kyle P. Gushue's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by coreyspencer View Post
the sound absorption coefficient for thick carpet is roughly .5-.7 on average. I could get really specific with these numbers for a specific material but then onshott1 would have to purchase my Acoustic treatment design as a "kit" to remain faithful to the numerical data. That my specific design would then be based on.

With no actual dimensions given about the vocal booth (HXLXW) I cant solve the Mean Absorbtion Coefficient for the booth. With out these 2 data sets I can not solve the total Room Sound Absorbtion or the Room Constant. Which would ultimately be the answer to your question. How much of this particular treatment is needed, and to what effect will it have?
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/a...tion-d_68.html
Nice try. Where's the actual test data for the specific carpet your reccomending someone spend money on?
Old 16th September 2020 | Show parent
  #45
Quote:
Originally Posted by coreyspencer View Post
FOAM bass traps arent effective.......

For a vocal booth such as this. the acoustic treatment I have described actually is more effective in several areas of improvement: in meeting the budget, purpose requirements of the room, and all around is going to make more of a difference to how the room sounds/behaves than a couple of $355 pieces of foam.
I'm getting the impression that he's not going to make acoustic panels. He just wants to buy something off the shelf. Foam is obviously better than carpet lol. The Auralex bass traps actually do a lot more than you would think they would do. For vocals, they'll fix a lot of problems.

Here is the test data of the Auralex Lenrd Bass Traps https://auralex.com/content/performance/LENRDAmount.pdf

At 100hz it has an NRC of 1.05, 1.30 at 125hz up to 1.54 at 5k. So they absorb fairly evenly all the way down to 125hz. After that, they start to not work as well. For vocals they'll be fine. You'd probably put on a high pass filter at 75hz anyway.

The shape of them has a lot to do with it even though as you say, foam is not the most efficient at lower frequencies. Fiberglass will absorb down to 50hz or so but again, we're just talking about vocals here.

I agree with the other poster. Carpet doesn't do too much. It will kill the highs and some of the mids. Have you ever been in a vocal booth covered in carpet or felt and no foam or any other treatment? I have. The result is all the highs are killed and most of the mid and bass bounces all over the place. That's why you never see a vocal booth without acoustic treatment in it. Bass trapping makes a massive difference. Even the foam ones. But the cheap brands don't do much. The Auralex stuff works better. If he's not going to make acoustic panels and can't buy them locally, then Foam bass traps are the best bet since it's the only thing he can probably get off the shelf.

A better option would be to pay someone to make acoustic panels and bass traps but in my experience, people don't want to make them because it's a shi**y job.

I have used Fiberglass bass traps, rockwool/Roxul bass traps, and Auralex foam bass traps. Foam is last out of those 3. But , for vocals in small spaces, it's a quick and easy fix if you can't get pre-made acoustic panels or bass traps in your area out of rockwool or fiberglass and you don't want to go the DIY route.

I would suggest those Primacoustic acoustic panels since music stores have them but you have to put a hole in them just to install them on the wall which exposes yourself to fiberglass if you ever have to move or reposition them so they're not as save as DIY fiberglass panels in my opinion so for that reason, I don't want to recommend them.

Foam is safe but not as effective as making your own acoustic panels. In that we're in agreement.

Where we disagree is that it's not useful at all and you'd rather put carpet on the walls. Having heard both, carpet is worse and will have even more bass bouncing back.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of foam but I do think those foam bass traps are useful, especially for vocals. It would definitely improve his booth since he's so close to the corners of the room.

Last edited by tomwatson; 16th September 2020 at 03:57 PM..
Old 16th September 2020 | Show parent
  #46
Quote:
Originally Posted by onshott1 View Post
It sounds like ass, I recorded a song and the acoustic sounded so bad I thought maby I'm a bad artist or I suck at producing. I moved my equipment to my friends house and did the same song and it sounded a millions times better.
I have the cm 800t the clone of the sony c800g mic. I'll upload a sample below of the bad recording I did in the room. I deleted the raw vocals and session cause it sucked so I only have a finished version that still sucked but sounds better at my friends house.
As expected, your biggest issues are low mid and bass.

In saying that, you also can't expect for an unmixed song to sound like a commercially mixed and mastered one.

I wouldn't say your a bad artist. You actually have a good voice and tone. You just suck at recording and mixing lol. That is not the job of an artist though. You can very easily improve your setup to make better demos but at some point your going to have to go into an actual studio to have it done properly anyway.
Old 16th September 2020 | Show parent
  #47
attention to detail is important

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomwatson View Post
Where we disagree is that it's not useful at all and you'd rather put carpet on the walls. Having heard both, carpet is worse and will have even more bass bouncing back.
You are disagreeing with me because you have not actually tried to follow along with what I am saying. Or with what I have stated. In other words its hard to listen when you're deaf.

My design doesn't simply involve just throwing carpet on a wall...

My acoustical design for this particular vocal booth requires two forms of treatment:

-It will include the use of a proprietary carpet diaphragmatic absorber. I described earlier the construction of these high-mid band frequency absorbers, I encourage you to review that build description. Carpet on top of foam (vocal booth already has foam on walls) has a sound absorption coefficient of roughly .6. By using my diaphragmatic carpet absorber design, you could multiply that sound absorption coefficient x-fold, as well as lower the frequency range(s) that it is effective in.
In order to be specific about the sound absorption of a specific piece of carpet I would need to know 2 things. The sound intensity absorbed and the incident sound intensity.


-It will include the use of a drop ceiling where the face of the ceiling is made of peg board (helmholtz resonant absorbtion, I could get specific with the hole sizes, I would just need more data to compute) and the cavity is filled with R-30. The sound absorbtion coefficient for the insulation material I described is 1.53. This could be multiplied x-fold by lowering the ceiling, and filling the cavity with more R-30.

This type of treatment is what is needed in order to transform the room sound into what I imagine a Rap vocal should sound like and was lacking from the audio samples provided. My treatment plan will transform the room into a recording environment that will produce a vocal that is warm,intimate,close 'in your face'. As my treatment will tame frequencies in the mid-high bands, and will help absorb reflections and resonances of the low-mids.

I decided this was the right direction to go in from listening to the audio samples. I imagined, "If I could EQ this vocal, what moves would I make". You could say that this is largely speculation at this point. But, my prediction is not too far from the truth.

The specifics of how much of each treatment is needed and what actual effect it will have on what frequencies can't be answered until I know the dimensions of the room. Then I can start to give specific numbers.
Old 16th September 2020 | Show parent
  #48
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomwatson View Post
As expected, your biggest issues are low mid and bass.

In saying that, you also can't expect for an unmixed song to sound like a commercially mixed and mastered one.

I wouldn't say your a bad artist. You actually have a good voice and tone. You just suck at recording and mixing lol. That is not the job of an artist though. You can very easily improve your setup to make better demos but at some point your going to have to go into an actual studio to have it done properly anyway.
so out of frustration i moved around my studio booth in hope to get better acoustics because i was recording close to the corner but i feel it may be worst due to the radiator. heres a youtube video of how i switched the booth so hopefully it's a little better.
https://youtu.be/6zQQl11e4tE

i have a budget of $600 budget to fix any issues, i don't plan on making my own bass traps or acoustic panels. i'd rather buy or use blankets like someone suggested.
what would you do or buy to fixed the booth now that i moved it around or is this worst then the way it was before. i wanna get this project started i'm holding on to my wallet because i'm getting mixed reviews. i wanna do it right.
i know it might not be perfect but what would do to fix atleast some of problems in this situation. What's the first thing you'd get or do?
Old 17th September 2020
  #49
my man. the treatment I described, really is not that difficult to do yourself. If you have a tape measure, hammer and nails or screw gun and screws. you can do this. You will also find that the materials cost for my design will leave your budget intact with surplus. You will also find that my treatment plan and design will have far greater effect and positive impact than what has previously been suggested to you (buying more foam, blankets, etc). I really would like to know the dimensions of your room so I can prove this and so I can accurately design the best treatment for your booth, while respecting the limits and bounds of this project.

but here is a rough estimate just using an example: 4'X6'X9'

floor area wall area ceiling area
(24ft²) (.6) + (120ft²) (.6)+(24ft²)(1.53) total room sound absorbtion= 123.12ft²Sabine

123.12ft²Sabine/ (24+120+24) Mean Absorbtion coefficient= .733

123.12ft²Sabine(1-.733) Room Constant= 32.87ft²Sabine


If I had your numbers I'd actually be able to begin to start the process of getting your vocal booth better than it is. Better than what a $355 piece of foam will do. For way less than you are willing to spend. This example demonstrates that my treatment plan is more effective in terms of sound absorption (which is what we want to do here). This particular example however does not include specifics on frequency management, this is because I would need more data from your room.

Materials
unfaced R-30- $80per 50sqft
pine lumber- @$1.30 BF
remnant carpet- @ $1 sqft
Pegboard- $20 per 32sqft
Screws/fasteners- $25

Lets use the same example from above regarding room dimensions: 4'X6'X9'. The material cost at baseline level treatment using my design would roughly be $211-$301 (or less).

You would be spending less money for more effective acoustical treatment, if you decided to use my designs.
Old 17th September 2020 | Show parent
  #50
Noise Reduction Coefficient (NRC)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomwatson View Post
At 100hz it has an NRC of 1.05, 1.30 at 125hz up to 1.54 at 5k. So they absorb fairly evenly all the way down to 125hz. After that, they start to not work as well. For vocals they'll be fine. You'd probably put on a high pass filter at 75hz anyway.
You are misrepresenting the data. NRC is the average of the absorption coefficients at the given frequencies of 250hz,500hz,1000hz and 2000hz.

For this particular product you mentioned it would be:

(1.55+1.53+1.48+1.48)/4 = 1.51

The NRC is one number. The stated NRC on this product is 1.50. (Rounded to the nearest .10)

36 of these "bass traps" combined contribute to a 1.5 NRC. It costs $450 just for 8 of these. In order to achieve the NRC stated you'll have to spend $2,025 on foam.
Old 17th September 2020 | Show parent
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coreyspencer View Post
The NRC is one number.
That is true, sadly, Noise Reduction Coefficient only takes into account speech frequencies. Singing and music use a broader range of frequencies.
Old 17th September 2020 | Show parent
  #52
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any vocal booth which hasn't got any daylight and feels claustrophobic is a bad vocal booth, regardless of acoustics/treatment (and mix being fed to the talent)...
Old 17th September 2020 | Show parent
  #53
Quote:
Originally Posted by coreyspencer View Post
You are misrepresenting the data. NRC is the average of the absorption coefficients at the given frequencies of 250hz,500hz,1000hz and 2000hz.

For this particular product you mentioned it would be:

(1.55+1.53+1.48+1.48)/4 = 1.51

The NRC is one number. The stated NRC on this product is 1.50. (Rounded to the nearest .10)

36 of these "bass traps" combined contribute to a 1.5 NRC. It costs $450 just for 8 of these. In order to achieve the NRC stated you'll have to spend $2,025 on foam.
I'm just talking about the bass trap itself. Not the whole room obviously. It's not mis-representing. You said foam doesn't absorb bass. I showed you a link showing that those particular bass traps absorbs bass down to 125hz pretty well. Since most bass comes from the corners, it makes sense to put them there.

Last edited by tomwatson; 17th September 2020 at 03:35 PM..
Old 17th September 2020 | Show parent
  #54
Quote:
Originally Posted by onshott1 View Post
so out of frustration i moved around my studio booth in hope to get better acoustics because i was recording close to the corner but i feel it may be worst due to the radiator. heres a youtube video of how i switched the booth so hopefully it's a little better.
https://youtu.be/6zQQl11e4tE

i have a budget of $600 budget to fix any issues, i don't plan on making my own bass traps or acoustic panels. i'd rather buy or use blankets like someone suggested.
what would you do or buy to fixed the booth now that i moved it around or is this worst then the way it was before. i wanna get this project started i'm holding on to my wallet because i'm getting mixed reviews. i wanna do it right.
i know it might not be perfect but what would do to fix atleast some of problems in this situation. What's the first thing you'd get or do?
The radiator is hollow so it will resonate. There isn't really a save solution to this as covering up the radiator will cause a fire hazard. Can you move the booth away from the radiator?

Don't worry about all the crazy people on here with their nonsense. Just Google at photos of artists in vocal booths in recording studios. Plenty of them are just foam on the walls with bass traps in the corners. It will work fine.








Those are all pretty much the same setup as yours with the foam bass traps missing. Except of course, they are they own free standing rooms with walls all around to keep the outside noise and reflections out.

You also need to put foam all over the ceiling though.

That curtain doesn't do too much so you will hear some reverb come in through the curtain.

The foam bass traps are the simplest thing you can do to fix your setup with almost no work.

This carpet idea is crazy talk and I've never seen it done before so that would make you the guinea pig. You can't go wrong with adding the foam bass traps. Even if you upgrade the setup later, you can move them to the corners of where the ceiling meets the wall. I have lots of them in my studio still even though I have fiberglass acoustic panels and large custom made 8ft tall corner acoustic panels. The foam corner panels just went into my vocal booth. Don't worry, you'll be fine. I'd put 2 of them stacked on top of each other in each corner. If you go with 3, it will sound better. As you can see in the photos, the first booth has two at head height and the other booth just has one but I'd say you'd need two or 3 of them stacked on top of each other. Measure the corner near the radiator to make sure the foam won't get too close to the radiator. They go diagonally across the corners since they are triangle shaped.

Here is a recording of myself in my booth the Auralex Mondo bass traps in the corners. You can see them if you look carefully. Since then I've swapped the all the foam in the booth for fiberglass acoustic panels which absorb much more bass but I've still kept the corner foam bass traps. Anyway, here is what I've suggested sounds like is 8ft by 12ft which is a lot larger than your space. Given that your space is much smaller I'd put in even more of those Auralex mondo bass traps, 3x in each corner if you can afford it. Getting 3 would also allow you to just stack them up from the floor rather than having to attach them to the walls.



I have no fix for your radiator except for maybe putting something around it which would cause a fire hazard and the radiator to not work. If it's not too cold without it you could turn off the pilot light, switch of the power to it at the power box and build an MDF box that goes around it but that would be a violation of the fire code and would end badly if the heater were to turn on by somehow. The safest thing to do would be to disconnect it and remove it. Also if you used an electric heater instead it would cost you a lot more to run. It's probably just easier to move the vocal booth or put up with the resonance.

Last edited by tomwatson; 17th September 2020 at 04:40 PM..
Old 17th September 2020 | Show parent
  #55
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomwatson View Post
I'm just talking about the bass trap itself. Not the whole room obviously. It's not mis-representing. You said foam doesn't absorb bass. I showed you a link showing that those particular bass traps absorbs bass down to 125hz pretty well. Since most bass comes from the corners, it makes sense to put them there.
36 of these foam traps together perform the reuslts shown in the tests.... one of these things will not do that.

I stated that foam was not an effective bass trap. Not that it doesnt absorb some low frequencies.

I was told that carpet is an ineffective treatment materialand should not be used as an acoustic treatment. This is not true.
Old 17th September 2020
  #56
Ive said all i can say. Ive shown you the steps to figure out what you want to figure out.If you wish to settle for a less effective and more expensive form of treatmeant for the sake of simplicity, that is your choice.
Old 17th September 2020
  #57
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I would say (a guess) it depends (whether it's good or bad). What is the booth made of, where does it stand in the larger room etc etc? Are they solid walls, is it a room within a room?

Personally I would be most wary of reflections from solid walls (thin acoustic foam tiles don't absorb much at all) - you might get better results from just thick curtain sides in an already quiet studio, away from the walls.
Old 18th September 2020 | Show parent
  #58
Quote:
Originally Posted by coreyspencer View Post
36 of these foam traps together perform the reuslts shown in the tests.... one of these things will not do that.
Dude, that is 100% wrong. The test shows what one bass trap is absorbing. Those are not my tests, those are tests from the manufacturer. You're just making up stuff. They would get sued for false advertising is their test data was 36x times off lol.

Let me make this extremely simple. You don't need 36 lol.


There are only 4 Auralex Mondo bass traps used in this recording on the front wall corners.




There are only 8 smaller corner foam bass traps used in this recording, 2 on each corner.




Neither of those recordings have the low mid and bass reverb problem that the poster has.

Other than isolation, reverb wise, the only main difference between these booths and the posters booth is that he doesn't have any corner bass traps. He also doesn't have any foam or absorption on the ceiling.

As I said before, if he was to buy either 2x four packs or 3x four packs, which would be ideal of the foam bass traps and stack 3 on top of each other in each corner, it will be under his budget and fix most of his problems. It will actually have more bass trapping than the two YouTube videos shown.

I'm trying to help the guy based on what actual studios have.

Your ideas and claims can't be backed up by any test data and is just your opinion.

I'm not posting opinions, I'm posting proof.

Why I personally think that carpet is a terrible idea. Carpet is not an acoustically transparent material. All acoustic fabric is breathable, meaning, if you can blow though it and feel your breath on the other side, sound across the whole frequency spectrum will pass through it. Carpet is not breathable and therefore not an acoustically transparent fabric. Placing carpet on top of foam will prevent sound from being absorbed by the foam and make the foam less effective. The carpet will only absorb some highs but it will also reflect some high mid and some bass will pass through to the foam which isn't as effective as absorbing bass and which will still pass back through the carpet and then bounce around all the corners that have no bass traps in them keeping the same boomy low end slap back he is getting present. The foam bass traps however, will absorb at lot of the low mid and bass down to about 125hz from the corners thereby reducing the overall amount of bass being bounced around the booth.

The only thing better than putting foam bass traps in the corners would be to remove all the foam and put fiberglass or rockwool acoustic panels in the corners and on the walls instead. Which he doesn't want to do.

I've provided links to websites with absorption stats, links to videos and recordings of my proposed design and you have not provided any links to any data or provided any proof your design will work even though many other people have asked you to.

Why should the OP trust your opinion with his hard earned money when there is no proof it would work? Do you have a recording done in your proposed setup that you would like to share so the OP can compare? You you have any real test data to link to other than your own?

I bet you $100 the OP puts those Auralex Mondo bass traps in the corners. It can't make the booth sound worse and will definitely make it sound better. As apposed to your idea which I personally think will make it about the same if not worse.

Last edited by tomwatson; 18th September 2020 at 10:35 AM..
Old 18th September 2020 | Show parent
  #59
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomwatson View Post
The radiator is hollow so it will resonate. There isn't really a save solution to this as covering up the radiator will cause a fire hazard. Can you move the booth away from the radiator?

Don't worry about all the crazy people on here with their nonsense. Just Google at photos of artists in vocal booths in recording studios. Plenty of them are just foam on the walls with bass traps in the corners. It will work fine.








Those are all pretty much the same setup as yours with the foam bass traps missing. Except of course, they are they own free standing rooms with walls all around to keep the outside noise and reflections out.

You also need to put foam all over the ceiling though.

That curtain doesn't do too much so you will hear some reverb come in through the curtain.

The foam bass traps are the simplest thing you can do to fix your setup with almost no work.

This carpet idea is crazy talk and I've never seen it done before so that would make you the guinea pig. You can't go wrong with adding the foam bass traps. Even if you upgrade the setup later, you can move them to the corners of where the ceiling meets the wall. I have lots of them in my studio still even though I have fiberglass acoustic panels and large custom made 8ft tall corner acoustic panels. The foam corner panels just went into my vocal booth. Don't worry, you'll be fine. I'd put 2 of them stacked on top of each other in each corner. If you go with 3, it will sound better. As you can see in the photos, the first booth has two at head height and the other booth just has one but I'd say you'd need two or 3 of them stacked on top of each other. Measure the corner near the radiator to make sure the foam won't get too close to the radiator. They go diagonally across the corners since they are triangle shaped.

Here is a recording of myself in my booth the Auralex Mondo bass traps in the corners. You can see them if you look carefully. Since then I've swapped the all the foam in the booth for fiberglass acoustic panels which absorb much more bass but I've still kept the corner foam bass traps. Anyway, here is what I've suggested sounds like is 8ft by 12ft which is a lot larger than your space. Given that your space is much smaller I'd put in even more of those Auralex mondo bass traps, 3x in each corner if you can afford it. Getting 3 would also allow you to just stack them up from the floor rather than having to attach them to the walls.



I have no fix for your radiator except for maybe putting something around it which would cause a fire hazard and the radiator to not work. If it's not too cold without it you could turn off the pilot light, switch of the power to it at the power box and build an MDF box that goes around it but that would be a violation of the fire code and would end badly if the heater were to turn on by somehow. The safest thing to do would be to disconnect it and remove it. Also if you used an electric heater instead it would cost you a lot more to run. It's probably just easier to move the vocal booth or put up with the resonance.
Thanks so much for your advice I think I'm leading to what you're saying more.

I've decide after this forum that I wanna study sound waves it has interested me. I'm thinking of going to school to learn about it now lol.

The way he explained the carpet idea seems like he might be on to something though. If he was in Canada I would hire him to do the job and test his theories. Im leading towards jumping the gun on the Auralex foam mixed with real bass traps reflection filter. I am very skeptical about the foam because of my experience with those cheap Amazon ones.
I'm gonna move the booth back to the wall where it was in the first video because the radiator has resonance. I will buy the auralex foam and put in in the corners like suggested. I will then buy the reflection filter and in hope it blocks the wall frequencies because I facing the wall.
Will that help.

I'm getting thicker curtains. My issue is the ceiling because it's so thin nails go through it like paper and they won't stick.
Old 18th September 2020 | Show parent
  #60
You should do the math before you say I'm crazy

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomwatson View Post
Dude, that is 100% wrong. The test shows what one bass trap is absorbing. Those are not my tests, those are tests from the manufacturer. You're just making up stuff. They would get sued for false advertising is their test data was 36x times off lol.

Let me make this extremely simple. You don't need 36 lol.


There are only 4 Auralex Mondo bass traps used in this recording on the front wall corners.




There are only 8 smaller corner foam bass traps used in this recording, 2 on each corner.




Neither of those recordings have the low mid and bass reverb problem that the poster has.

Other than isolation, reverb wise, the only main difference between these booths and the posters booth is that he doesn't have any corner bass traps. He also doesn't have any foam or absorption on the ceiling.

As I said before, if he was to buy either 2x four packs or 3x four packs, which would be ideal of the foam bass traps and stack 3 on top of each other in each corner, it will be under his budget and fix most of his problems. It will actually have more bass trapping than the two YouTube videos shown.

I'm trying to help the guy based on what actual studios have.

Your ideas and claims can't be backed up by any test data and is just your opinion.

I'm not posting opinions, I'm posting proof.

Why I personally think that carpet is a terrible idea. Carpet is not an acoustically transparent material. All acoustic fabric is breathable, meaning, if you can blow though it and feel your breath on the other side, sound across the whole frequency spectrum will pass through it. Carpet is not breathable and therefore not an acoustically transparent fabric. Placing carpet on top of foam will prevent sound from being absorbed by the foam and make the foam less effective. The carpet will only absorb some highs but it will also reflect some high mid and some bass will pass through to the foam which isn't as effective as absorbing bass and which will still pass back through the carpet and then bounce around all the corners that have no bass traps in them keeping the same boomy low end slap back he is getting present. The foam bass traps however, will absorb at lot of the low mid and bass down to about 125hz from the corners thereby reducing the overall amount of bass being bounced around the booth.

The only thing better than putting foam bass traps in the corners would be to remove all the foam and put fiberglass or rockwool acoustic panels in the corners and on the walls instead. Which he doesn't want to do.

I've provided links to websites with absorption stats, links to videos and recordings of my proposed design and you have not provided any links to any data or provided any proof your design will work even though many other people have asked you to.

Why should the OP trust your opinion with his hard earned money when there is no proof it would work? Do you have a recording done in your proposed setup that you would like to share so the OP can compare? You you have any real test data to link to other than your own?

I bet you $100 the OP puts those Auralex Mondo bass traps in the corners. It can't make the booth sound worse and will definitely make it sound better. As apposed to your idea which I personally think will make it about the same if not worse.

There's a few things I'd like to conclude with.

1. Acoustic Design is a form of engineering. Engineering in simple term, is using math, science and creativity to be able to to create, plan, build or design a solution or a process.
2. You keep asking me to provide results. I have shown you the equations/formulas that proves everything I'm saying. To the degree of having all the information necessary. I have also proved that you can in fact design a vocal booth using any material as an acoustic treatment material.
3. I really suggest you look closer at the Auralex test data. I'll point out several things below in red.


DESCRIPTION OF THE SPECIMEN
The test specimen was designated by the manufacturer as LENRD Bass Trap. A full internal inspection
performed on the test specimen by Riverbank personnel verified the manufacturer's description.
LENRD Bass Trap (Angled)
Material: Open cell polyurethane foam
Dimensions 36 at 304.80 mm (12.0 in.) wide by 603.25 mm (23.75 in.) long
Depth: Varies, 304.80 mm (12.0 in.) maximum
Density: 25.63 kg/m3 (1.60 lbs./ft3
)
*
Physical Measures
Size: 2.73 m (107.50 in.) wide by 2.41 m (95.00 in.) long
Thickness: 304.80 mm (12.00 in.)
Weight: 28.69 kg (63.25 lbs.)
Mass per Unit Area: 4.35 kg/m2 (0.89 lbs./ft2
)
Area: 6.59 m
2 (70.90 ft2

)
Test Environment
Volume: 292.0 m3 (10,311.0 ft3
)
Temperature: 20.7±0.1ºC (69.3±0.1ºF)
Humidity: 59.0±1.8%
Barometric Pressure: 99.5 kPa.
* = Information provided by manufacturer and not verified by RAL
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