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Exterior Windows - Prefab ?
Old 22nd July 2020
  #1
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MariusPerron's Avatar
 

Exterior Windows - Prefab ?

On my commercial build, I am planning some large windows ( 6’ wide x 9’ tall ) to view the nice trees outside of the sound rooms. This is a quiet area of town (it used to be residential). The attached diagram has the planned wall detail.

The outside of our building will be rock and stucco. We are copying other office buildings in the area – later we may want to sell this building to a doctor or dentist… See attached photos

As the diagram shows, there will be two isolated walls and hence two windows. For the outside window, I would like to use a prefab commercial window. Most commercial windows are double pane – and think I read that for best isolation, both windows should be a single pane of glass. But I REALLY would rather use a prefab window.
Reasons:
a. Simplicity
b. Lower cost (labor and materials)
c. A prefab window will have an established “R Rating” to satisfy city codes,
d. Seems like it would look more “professional” for future buyers than a homemade window.

For the interior window, a prefab would be nice too… But we can build the interior window if necessary.

I am trying to achieve 45 – 50 dB isolation from the outside. I realize that good commercially made exterior windows have an STC of 30 – 40. But since I have a double walls, the second window should increase the isolation. Right?

Please tell me what precautions and added measures I can take to utilize prefab windows and get best results.

Thank you,
Marius Perron
Attached Thumbnails
Exterior Windows - Prefab ?-camp-bullis.jpg   Exterior Windows - Prefab ?-exterior-wall-detail.jpg  
Old 23rd July 2020
  #2
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Jason Foi's Avatar
 

Call thad ziggler glass. You want to use laminated glass for inner/outter leaf. They can laminate two sheets together so theres no airgap between panes. Safer and better for acoustics as the laminate damps the glass since you wont have insulation there.
Old 23rd July 2020
  #3
Old 23rd July 2020
  #4
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MariusPerron's Avatar
 

Thanks Jason.

But I don't want to build the windows... I want to use prefabricated windows.
Old 23rd July 2020
  #5
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Kyle P. Gushue's Avatar
https://www.soundproofwindows.com/

They might be able to help.

Ive only dealt with exterior windows once, in a home theater, and the solution was a window plug on hinges. I know this is not what you want to do but figured id mention it.

Are the windows in sound critical areas? Maybe this is a place where 3 or 4 leafs for the window glass won't ruin things....

I am not sure of the thermal characteristics of the interior window designs in rods book.
Old 23rd July 2020
  #6
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MariusPerron's Avatar
 

Thanks Kyle. I am hoping that the "triple leaf" effect will not be as applicable to two double pane windows...
Old 23rd July 2020
  #7
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Jason Foi's Avatar
 

Its 4 leaf, id imagine the msm fc to be quite high on top of the low mass i wouldnt expect much for LF isolation. The windows will be the weak point in your system.
Old 23rd July 2020
  #8
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MariusPerron's Avatar
 

Okay, so let's say there are two things that are fixed and I cannot change them:

1. I have two isolated walls with a window in each

2. For the window to the outside, I am using a prefabricated commercially available window with a high STC rating. And an acceptable R rating.

Give me constructive ways that I can optimize the situation.

I already know about the triple Leaf effect. But I am trying to make this work. I appreciate the help.
Old 23rd July 2020 | Show parent
  #9
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Kyle P. Gushue's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MariusPerron View Post
Okay, so let's say there are two things that are fixed and I cannot change them:

1. I have two isolated walls with a window in each

2. For the window to the outside, I am using a prefabricated commercially available window with a high STC rating. And an acceptable R rating.

Give me constructive ways that I can optimize the situation.

I already know about the triple Leaf effect. But I am trying to make this work. I appreciate the help.
The actual calcs are above my pay grade...

From what i understand of the theory is extra mass is a way to compensate for triple leaves. So is maximizing the air gap.

Rod on triple leaf mass location

Questions for Rod Gervais about his book, Build it Like the Pros

I don't have a link, but recall avare saying a 3 leaf wasn't an issue in a person's hallway because of 3' between leafs, the resonance was so low it didn't matter. (Rough idea / paraphrasing there)

*This is just a thought but if the 2 pane glass was massive enough, maybe you could get away without an internal pane? Assuming proper mass and sealing of the window cavity/jamb itself. The window mass might make up for the smaller air gap, relative to the walls, and keep the opening itself meeting or exceeding the walls. Im picturing a single massive door, mounted in a double wall assembly, like pictured in rods book.*

Sorry i cant help more.
Old 23rd July 2020 | Show parent
  #10
Gear Nut
 
MariusPerron's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle P. Gushue View Post

*This is just a thought but if the 2 pane glass was massive enough, maybe you could get away without an internal pane? Assuming proper mass and sealing of the window cavity/jamb itself. The window mass might make up for the smaller air gap, relative to the walls, and keep the opening itself meeting or exceeding the walls. Im picturing a single massive door, mounted in a double wall assembly, like pictured in rods book.*

Sorry i cant help more.
Om my gosh! That's actually a pretty good idea! I'll think about that...
Old 23rd July 2020
  #11
Gear Nut
 
MariusPerron's Avatar
 

I reached out to Jeff Hedback. He said:

As far as the exterior windows, it's really an easy answer. Start at the exterior with a upper grade/quality standard dual-pane window. You would then want a 6" air-gap (minimum) and place a laminated glass window by SoundProofWindows.com. This is a great company, great people and excellent product. They offer both a standard 1/4" laminated glass and then a super effective 5/8" lam glass (these thicknesses are by memory). They use excellent quality clear laminated glass and the really stand out feature is their seal system. Simply, this combination works. Also, the SPW units can be taken out and reused elsewhere.

https://www.soundproofwindows.com/so...ows-and-doors/

Your situation might be fine with the thinner pane...but the thicker will handle any SPL you might create!

Thank you again...I hope things go great and I would enjoy updates.

Sincerely,

Jeff Hedback

www.HdAcoustics.net
Old 23rd July 2020 | Show parent
  #12
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Kyle P. Gushue's Avatar


Quote:
Originally Posted by MariusPerron View Post
I reached out to Jeff Hedback. He said:

As far as the exterior windows, it's really an easy answer. Start at the exterior with a upper grade/quality standard dual-pane window. You would then want a 6" air-gap (minimum) and place a laminated glass window by SoundProofWindows.com. This is a great company, great people and excellent product. They offer both a standard 1/4" laminated glass and then a super effective 5/8" lam glass (these thicknesses are by memory). They use excellent quality clear laminated glass and the really stand out feature is their seal system. Simply, this combination works. Also, the SPW units can be taken out and reused elsewhere.

https://www.soundproofwindows.com/so...ows-and-doors/

Your situation might be fine with the thinner pane...but the thicker will handle any SPL you might create!

Thank you again...I hope things go great and I would enjoy updates.

Sincerely,

Jeff Hedback

www.HdAcoustics.net
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