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Basement studio. Treatment Positioning advice
Old 31st July 2020
  #31
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
1) If you are going to focus alot on frequency response, you have to do more( i would recommend minimum 6-10) of measurements around the listening position and average them together to get a real picture of what's happening in terms of the frequency response.
So would you recommend taking measurements in a 2' sphere around the mix position and EQ based on the averages? I suppose I should also have done that for placement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
2) As you boost your sub its adding alot of 2nd harmonic distortion around 30hz-80hz which is 55% compared to the original signal. This is a lot of distortion. Basically when you are listening to those 808 type bass and kick drums, half of what you hear right now is distortion mixed in.

Something in the gain staging is wrong or your subwoofer is only rated to a certain amount of level before distortion sets in.
I did another measurement with the subs, attenuated the signal by 8dB, and turned off all of the parametric EQs that I did on the subs.

Does this look better?

Thanks,
Attached Thumbnails
Basement studio.  Treatment Positioning advice-quieter-subs.jpg  
Attached Files
File Type: mdat Quieter subs.mdat (2.37 MB, 4 views)
Old 31st July 2020
  #32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grovestand View Post
So would you recommend taking measurements in a 2' sphere around the mix position and EQ based on the averages? I suppose I should also have done that for placement?,
First LP(listening position) then:

6" left of LP , 6" right of LP, 6" front/ behind LP, 6" front/behind Left, 6 " front/behind right.

Sometimes to be anal 12" all around.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Grovestand View Post
I did another measurement with the subs, attenuated the signal by 8dB, and turned off all of the parametric EQs that I did on the subs.

Does this look better?

Thanks,
Yes better.
Old 7th August 2020
  #33
So I after I got the EQ and delays to be working together a bit more, I started experimenting with adding some slats and pegboard to the front wall.

I also lifted up the back of the desk to reduce reflections. I really need to build a new desktop, but I don't want to build it incorrectly.

Here's my most recent iteration.


I would appreciate suggestions on how to treat the rest of the walls and how to decide on front wall slat widths and spacing. It won't be "Sealed"

Is it worth it to dismantle my front wall trap, and only treat the front wall corners to get the speakers closer to the front wall for SBIR purposes?

Thanks for looking!
Attached Thumbnails
Basement studio.  Treatment Positioning advice-lr-25-1000-no-smoothing.jpg   Basement studio.  Treatment Positioning advice-all-spl-25-1000-no-smoothing.jpg   Basement studio.  Treatment Positioning advice-lr-etc.jpg   Basement studio.  Treatment Positioning advice-rt60.jpg   Basement studio.  Treatment Positioning advice-distortion.jpg  

Basement studio.  Treatment Positioning advice-lr-spl-1.48-smoothing.jpg  
Attached Files
Old 7th August 2020
  #34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grovestand View Post
So I after I got the EQ and delays to be working together a bit more, I started experimenting with adding some slats and pegboard to the front wall.

I also lifted up the back of the desk to reduce reflections. I really need to build a new desktop, but I don't want to build it incorrectly.

Here's my most recent iteration.


I would appreciate suggestions on how to treat the rest of the walls and how to decide on front wall slat widths and spacing. It won't be "Sealed"

Is it worth it to dismantle my front wall trap, and only treat the front wall corners to get the speakers closer to the front wall for SBIR purposes?

Thanks for looking!
Your speaker and listening position looks like its working so i would keep it.

The only issue is now your frequency response from 500hz-1khz has been changed by a reflection that wasn't there before.

I know its difficult at times, but it makes it easier to compare older and newer measurements if you measure at the same level.
Attached Thumbnails
Basement studio.  Treatment Positioning advice-screen-shot-2020-08-07-12.40.15-pm.jpg   Basement studio.  Treatment Positioning advice-screen-shot-2020-08-07-12.40.26-pm.jpg   Basement studio.  Treatment Positioning advice-screen-shot-2020-08-07-12.40.36-pm.jpg   Basement studio.  Treatment Positioning advice-screen-shot-2020-08-07-12.40.43-pm.jpg  
Old 7th August 2020
  #35
So I looked back at my photos from 7.23 when I took that measurement and started trying to restore everything to those positions. Of course this messed up most of the other adjustments I have made since then done, and I still have not managed to get rid of the 500-1000Hz reflection...

Perhaps it was having panels behind the speakers that eventually eliminated the dip?

I still have not put those back...

I removed those panels because it allowed me to move my speakers back further and help with the SBIR issue.

All this is reinforcing my thinking that taking out the middle section of my front wall trap and pushing the speakers up against the front wall may be necessary.

Sigh...
Attached Thumbnails
Basement studio.  Treatment Positioning advice-39b4f75c-c90f-4b7f-af6f-e565f9aa7e4f.jpg  
Old 7th August 2020
  #36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grovestand View Post
So I looked back at my photos from 7.23 when I took that measurement and started trying to restore everything to those positions. Of course this messed up most of the other adjustments I have made since then done, and I still have not managed to get rid of the 500-1000Hz reflection...

Perhaps it was having panels behind the speakers that eventually eliminated the dip?

I still have not put those back...

I removed those panels because it allowed me to move my speakers back further and help with the SBIR issue.

All this is reinforcing my thinking that taking out the middle section of my front wall trap and pushing the speakers up against the front wall may be necessary.

Sigh...
This is why acoustic designers don't recommend small rooms for control rooms.
Your options are limited in terms of space and at a certain point and every new move while it might make somethings better it can make it worse as well.

Comparing before(July 23) and this new measurement, it was better before.

At this point, i would stop measuring and start working. Its really the only way to be sure how the room is translating.

This is the black hole of doing measurements, you forget what the original goal was and it becomes all about getting a graph to look right.
Old 7th August 2020
  #37
Lol, thanks for the advice.

I didn’t post much for a week because I was collaborating on two tracks remotely.

The only reason I started messing with stuff is that, the mids (high mids?) of my bounces don’t sound quite the way I would expect them to when I A B them.

I think I am perceiving the lower decay in the middle of the spectrum in my room. I believe I can overcome this just by being aware of it.

But only if I leave it the same for a while!

I keep checking the SPL I’m mixing at, because everything sounds much louder than I expect it to.

Mixing at 75dB makes me feel like I should turn it down because it sounds clearer the way it would at 85.

Pretty cool stuff.

Thanks again for all your help.
Old 7th August 2020
  #38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grovestand View Post
Lol, thanks for the advice.

I didn’t post much for a week because I was collaborating on two tracks remotely.

The only reason I started messing with stuff is that, the mids (high mids?) of my bounces don’t sound quite the way I would expect them to when I A B them.

I think I am perceiving the lower decay in the middle of the spectrum in my room. I believe I can overcome this just by being aware of it.

But only if I leave it the same for a while!

I keep checking the SPL I’m mixing at, because everything sounds much louder than I expect it to.

Mixing at 75dB makes me feel like I should turn it down because it sounds clearer the way it would at 85.

Pretty cool stuff.

Thanks again for all your help.
Well your RT60 in hi's and mids is really short, almost like wearing a pair of headphones, but you will get used to it eventually...or not. Some people have problems working in rooms with really short decays in mids and hi's, while others love it.

Right now your NR is around 23.9-24 which is nice(recommended is NR10-NR15 max) so everything should still be nice and clear. Also the 1/3 octave response is well with +/- 3db so this is good as well.

Try to mix something without thinking and see how it turns out.
Old 8th August 2020
  #39
I believe I have discovered the cause(s) of the reflection.

For some reason, having the back of the speaker pushing against the fabric of my front wall trap causes increased reflections. No idea why, but it does.

The desk is floor and side walls are also causing some. Putting 4" of 703 on the desk helped.

Moving the speakers forward a little bit off the front wall trap does hurt the 300 Hz null, but it cleans up the EDT which evens out the 500-1000Hz range.

Pretty sure I can get that even cleaner with a new desk and by moving some small panels up front. But I will leave it alone for now.

Thanks again!
Attached Files
File Type: mdat Better FIR L+R.mdat (2.38 MB, 5 views)
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