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Need help with my room Eq measurments
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1
Here for the gear
Need help with my room Eq measurments

Hi,
I have a control room with Genelec 1037c and I have run room eq and want to know if my results are good or not. I appreciate any help and suggestions.
Attached Thumbnails
Need help with my room Eq measurments-room-eq-26-june-big.jpg   Need help with my room Eq measurments-room-eq-26-june.jpg   Need help with my room Eq measurments-decay-26-june.jpg   Need help with my room Eq measurments-rt60-26-june.jpg   Need help with my room Eq measurments-spectrogram-26-june.jpg  

Need help with my room Eq measurments-waterfal-26-june.jpg  
Old 2 weeks ago
  #2
Post the MDAT so it can be downloaded and analyzed.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #3
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Thank you ! I am uploading it.
Attached Files
File Type: mdat Jun 26 2_31_09.mdat (2.86 MB, 7 views)
Old 2 weeks ago
  #4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shenen View Post
Thank you ! I am uploading it.
Measure Left and Right separately and 20hz to 20,000 khz.


Also are you using a USB microphone? If so set the sampling rate for 48khz.

Just analyzing what's there looks like a lot of background noise in space right now so when you measure try a slightly louder measurement.

Also there is a slight distortion at 65hz and 100hz to watch out for.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #5
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I am using sonar works measurement mic and got the calibration file which i inserted in Room eq.

I am using it with Neve 1073LB 500 series mic preamp into Digidesign 192.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shenen View Post
I am using sonar works measurement mic and got the calibration file which i inserted in Room eq.

I am using it with Neve 1073LB 500 series mic preamp into Digidesign 192.
I've attached a picture of distortion and noise floor.

Its either:

1) The speaker
2) The mic
3) The mic preamp

Maybe its all the above.
Attached Thumbnails
Need help with my room Eq measurments-distortion-noise-floor.jpg  
Old 2 weeks ago
  #7
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Thank you for helping me. I uploading left and right separately.
Attached Files
File Type: mdat Left monitor 26 June.mdat (2.86 MB, 12 views) File Type: mdat Right monitor 26 june.mdat (2.86 MB, 6 views)
Old 2 weeks ago
  #8
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Can it be from the computer fans? I have an old mac pro 5.1 when i measured with spl meter app it reads 54db. May be i should measure with USB soundcard and macbook to avoid noise?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shenen View Post
Thank you for helping me. I uploading left and right separately.
Better, but a couple of questions:


1) Are the walls materials different?
2) If not, did you move the mic when measuring left and right?
3) Also did you change the level between left and right?

In terms of the analysis, the good thing is that most of the SBIR nulls are in the upper region(400hz-1.5khz).

The Nulls in the lower region look like they can be treated modally on the right surfaces.

Your RT60 Topt is not bad and with the right tweaks in the low mids can be evened out.

In terms of your ETC the left side looks better controlled compared to the right side. But in terms of the EDT it could be cleaned up even more on both sides.

The Filtered ETC tells a different story. Different frequency ranges have reflections occuring either near the measurement, 1.5 m or from the backwall/corners that need to be sussed out.

The C50 Clarity measurement looks better on the left side then right side.

In terms of the waterfall and spectogram its tough to analyze because of the background or room noise.

43-45hz looks to be the 1-0-0 Length or 0-1-0 mode maybe(don't know dimensions of space)? If so the 90hz dip can be a culmination of the front and backwall in combination with another mode(possibly ceiling?)
Old 2 weeks ago
  #10
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1) Are the walls materials different? No, they are the same.

2) If not, did you move the mic when measuring left and right? No I didint move it at all.

3) Also did you change the level between left and right? No level change
Old 2 weeks ago
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shenen View Post
1) Are the walls materials different? No, they are the same.

2) If not, did you move the mic when measuring left and right? No I didint move it at all.

3) Also did you change the level between left and right? No level change
Then there is something amiss between the left and right speaker or the playback left and right.

In the picture i've attached you can clearly see the differences overall between both sides.
Attached Thumbnails
Need help with my room Eq measurments-screen-shot-2020-06-25-11.52.15-pm.jpg  
Old 2 weeks ago
  #12
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Uploadingmy control picture
Attached Thumbnails
Need help with my room Eq measurments-whatsapp-image-2020-06-26-05.52.11.jpg   Need help with my room Eq measurments-whatsapp-image-2020-06-26-05.55.36.jpg   Need help with my room Eq measurments-whatsapp-image-2020-06-26-05.55.36-1-.jpg   Need help with my room Eq measurments-whatsapp-image-2020-06-26-05.55.37.jpg   Need help with my room Eq measurments-whatsapp-image-2020-06-26-05.55.37-1-.jpg  

Need help with my room Eq measurments-whatsapp-image-2020-06-26-05.55.38.jpg  
Old 2 weeks ago
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shenen View Post
Uploadingmy control picture
Nice looking place but its possible your backwall diffuser is doing more harm then good.

Especially if your front wall is really made of stone.

I've attached a picture of the Filtered 400hz overlay. It shows strong energy reflection after the impulse.

Also because your space is treated already it seems, figuring out more treatment might be tough, so some kind of EQ correction maybe your next choice.
Attached Thumbnails
Need help with my room Eq measurments-400-hz-filtered-overlay.jpg  
Old 2 weeks ago
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
Nice looking place but its possible your backwall diffuser is doing more harm then good.

Especially if your front wall is really made of stone.

I've attached a picture of the Filtered 400hz overlay. It shows strong energy reflection after the impulse.

Also because your space is treated already it seems, figuring out more treatment might be tough, so some kind of EQ correction maybe your next choice.
Thank you ! The two monitors are angled 7 degrees downwards. I have diffusers above my listening position.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shenen View Post
I have diffusers above my listening position.
Yeah i noticed, similar to a Northward Design.

But they usually do a non environment design for their spaces.

What kind of treatment or design choice was made for your space?
Also any ideas where the all noise is coming from?

If you are mixing in your space with that much background noise you will have to mix at 85-90db which while energetic could be too loud at times.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
Yeah i noticed, similar to a Northward Design.

But they usually do a non environment design for their spaces.

What kind of treatment or design choice was made for your space?
Also any ideas where the all noise is coming from?

If you are mixing in your space with that much background noise you will have to mix at 85-90db which while energetic could be too loud at times.
I guess the noise is coming from my mac pro, plus air ventilation.
I will try to pull the right monitor a 1 to 2 degrees downwards.

I think u r right that its well treated so the only solution will be some kind of DSP room EQ. I am looking for Minidsp 2X4 balanced, I saw one with warren huart from Produce like a pro youtube channel where he visits a studio where they implemented such DSp Room EQ.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RiuwqzjqlQ&t=1104s

Last edited by Shenen; 2 weeks ago at 04:30 AM.. Reason: wrong spelling
Old 2 weeks ago
  #17
Only looking at your L measurement...

Impulse response is good with a noticeable desk reflection but I've seen much worse. Not sure angling the speakers is a good move but maybe you can experiment with angles to see if you can lower it further.

@ thethrillfactor mentioned the big diffuser in the rear and there is a bunch of reflections from the rear wall (~5 m extra distance) that seem to bounce around the rear side walls and the ceiling. I assume reducing the diffusive surface on the rear wall would also reduce those reflections.

Beyond that, I think it's a pretty good result even though part of the (side wall?) treatment may not be deep enough (holes at 90 and 132 Hz).

If you did all of this yourself, that's damn cool.
Old 1 week ago
  #18
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Thank you so much for taking your time and helping me out!

I have made some change in my control room and made a new measure with REW, I hope you can check it and see if it is better or worse.

Every help and suggestions is appreciated !

I am uploading the REW files.
Attached Files
Old 1 week ago
  #19
The desk reflection is much less now.

Some pre-reflection before the main impulse, not sure what it is. It wasn't present in your measurement from the 26th of June.

Rear wall decay is also pretty smooth now.

Does it sound better/different?
Old 1 week ago
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johannburkard View Post
The desk reflection is much less now.

Some pre-reflection before the main impulse, not sure what it is. It wasn't present in your measurement from the 26th of June.

Rear wall decay is also pretty smooth now.

Does it sound better/different?
Thank You Johan! I spent the whole night in the control room playing with angles. At first the monitors were leaning 7 degrees and now they are 8 now. It didnt make that big difference.

The new Genelecs have DSP built in for room correction, min is older version with Tone Control DIP switches for room corrections. I attenuated 1 db in the mid range, 2db Attenuation on the bass of the left speaker. On the right side it was only the bass range attenuated 4db and nothing on the midrange.

That is what I have done, I don't have other options as the speakers are mounted and the walls are finished.

I am new to this REW and dont know it very good, I am just learning and any tips and suggestion is appreciated. How can I see this pre-reflection before the main impulse. Can you post a pic of that?

I noticed a difference and it sounded better, I will try to mix a song and compare it as i have mixed it before.
Old 1 week ago
  #21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shenen View Post
How can I see this pre-reflection before the main impulse. Can you post a pic of that?
Attached Thumbnails
Need help with my room Eq measurments-impulse.jpg  
Old 1 week ago
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johannburkard View Post

I am uploading the pictures to show you how the eq looks on the genelecs after attenuating bass, mid frequencies.
Attached Thumbnails
Need help with my room Eq measurments-whatsapp-image-2020-07-02-19.23.43-2-.jpg   Need help with my room Eq measurments-whatsapp-image-2020-07-02-19.23.43-4-.jpg   Need help with my room Eq measurments-whatsapp-image-2020-07-02-19.23.43-5-.jpg   Need help with my room Eq measurments-whatsapp-image-2020-07-02-19.23.43-6-.jpg   Need help with my room Eq measurments-whatsapp-image-2020-07-02-19.23.43-7-.jpg  

Need help with my room Eq measurments-whatsapp-image-2020-07-02-19.23.43.jpeg  
Old 1 week ago
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johannburkard View Post
You re right about the pre reflections. A lot of difference as you wrote.

I will try to take new measurements and see if it will show again.
Old 1 week ago
  #24
Quote:
Originally Posted by johannburkard View Post
Pre reflections is usually some kind of distortion in the system. The closer to zero its second harmonic, the further negative its third, fourth, fifth and so on.
Old 1 week ago
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
Pre reflections is usually some kind of distortion in the system. The closer to zero its second harmonic, the further negative its third, fourth, fifth and so on.
Thank you so much ! I am new to all this measurement stuff.
The first measurements were done like in number 1, final measurement was through balance propellerhead usb sound card in number 2.

1 - Sonarworks Calibrated mic + Neve 1073 LB 500 series + Digidesign 192 + Mac Pro 2012

2 - Sonarworks Calibrated mic + Balance Propellerhead USB sound card + Mac Pro 2012


I guess have to measure with the first setup to see if the pre reflections will show up or not.
Old 1 week ago
  #26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shenen View Post
Thank you so much ! I am new to all this measurement stuff.
The first measurements were done like in number 1, final measurement was through balance propellerhead usb sound card in number 2.

1 - Sonarworks Calibrated mic + Neve 1073 LB 500 series + Digidesign 192 + Mac Pro 2012

2 - Sonarworks Calibrated mic + Balance Propellerhead USB sound card + Mac Pro 2012


I guess have to measure with the first setup to see if the pre reflections will show up or not.
Well in the second measurement the distortion is low, only the noise level at the lower end is higher.

I have a question, what is the distance from the speaker to the microphone?
What is the dimension from speaker to backwall? According to the Filtered ETC, a strong reflection that is 47.24 ft longer is causing the the phase shift at 315hz and 400 hz.
Old 1 week ago
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
Well in the second measurement the distortion is low, only the noise level at the lower end is higher.

I have a question, what is the distance from the speaker to the microphone?
What is the dimension from speaker to backwall? According to the Filtered ETC, a strong reflection that is 47.24 ft longer is causing the the phase shift at 315hz and 400 hz.
The distance from the mic is 180 cm for every monitors. From the monitors to the rear wall is about 4,4 meters according to the drawings. But I will measure it manually from the monitors to the rear wall and see if it is exactly the same.
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