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Slab Conduit Runs
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1
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MariusPerron's Avatar
 

Slab Conduit Runs

Slab Conduit Runs

For my studio build I am planning several conduits runs through the slab:
1. For CAT6
2. For Analog audio connections
3. For 110-volt tech power ( so I won’t be punch holes in the walls)
4. For 110-volt non- tech power
5. For cameras and screens - no windows between rooms

I have three control rooms and one large room. (Four “sound” rooms.) I will have a fifth centralized “Machine” room. The CAT6 and Analog will run to the “Machine” room. In the Machine room will be Dante, etc to connect audio between rooms; and an analog “patch bay”.

Questions:
1. What size conduit for the CAT6 - If I run maximum Eight CAT6 through the conduit

2. For the analog conduit - I was going to use 2” diameter – should be big enough dontcha think?

3. I don’t know much about cameras/video/screens… And I have heard that if you run POE, then you have restrictions on what other cables can be in the conduit.

I sure would appreciate any help you can give.

Marius Perron
Old 2 weeks ago
  #2
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Kyle P. Gushue's Avatar
The analog runs don't have a universal answer. 2 mic lines vs a 32 ch snake would require different diameter conduit.

An electrician should be able to spec the conduit once you know how many lines of each thing you need.

Im unclear why punching holes in the concrete is more desirable than running thru the walls??


When you run Dante you dont run analog lines. You plug an interface into the ethernet in each room. The the analog stuff runs into the interface. That's a big advantage of dante, not running tons of expensive audio cable all around.

Maybe im missing something in your description?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #3
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MariusPerron's Avatar
 

Kyle P. Gushue
Im unclear why punching holes in the concrete is more desirable than running thru the walls??

Choose one for better isolation between rooms
A. holes in walls of adjacent rooms for electrical outlets

or

B. conduit through the slab that emerges way across the other side of the building
———————-
When you run Dante you dont run analog lines. You plug an interface into the ethernet in each room. The the analog stuff runs into the interface. That's a big advantage of dante, not running tons of expensive audio cable all around.

Yes, I already know that. Been using Dante since 2009. But it’s a good idea to have some regular copper analog runs in case you need it.
————————
Just need some advice about conduit diameter.

And yes, the MEP will specify the size conduit for the AC Power.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #4
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avare's Avatar
 

As a general guide I use 25% fill. If it isknown only one cable ever, like a snake, up to around 50%, but this rarely happens.

It is a bit off topic but twist the electrical conductors to reduce EMI significantly.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #5
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MariusPerron's Avatar
 

Thanks Avare. Good tip.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #6
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My advice is to run a lot more STP CatX cable than you think you need (Cat6A or better). When it's shielded it's great for everything, ethercon analog (mic or line level, with phantom power)-

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07T92D5X4...a-778706508376

https://www.amazon.com/Ethercon-Adap...a-869763719262

But also Dante, AVB, analog video (AHD, CVI-HD etc), digital video, Midi over catx, USB extension, HDMI extension etc.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #7
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avare's Avatar
 

Great stuff. It may not be obvious but it is cheaper to put conduit in concrete than it is to dig up concrete. Plan for future possibilities. There are new venues when built that the conduit for future use cost more than the sound system as initially installed.

Enjoy!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #8
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Rick Dalton's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MariusPerron View Post
Slab Conduit Runs

For my studio build I am planning several conduits runs through the slab:
1. For CAT6
2. For Analog audio connections
3. For 110-volt tech power ( so I won’t be punch holes in the walls)
4. For 110-volt non- tech power
5. For cameras and screens - no windows between rooms

I have three control rooms and one large room. (Four “sound” rooms.) I will have a fifth centralized “Machine” room. The CAT6 and Analog will run to the “Machine” room. In the Machine room will be Dante, etc to connect audio between rooms; and an analog “patch bay”.

Questions:
1. What size conduit for the CAT6 - If I run maximum Eight CAT6 through the conduit

2. For the analog conduit - I was going to use 2” diameter – should be big enough dontcha think?

3. I don’t know much about cameras/video/screens… And I have heard that if you run POE, then you have restrictions on what other cables can be in the conduit.

I sure would appreciate any help you can give.

Marius Perron
Hey MariusPerron, here's something you may want to look at. I'm sure your contractor will know what will and wont work.

https://forums.mikeholt.com/threads/...oncrete.87618/
https://steeltubeinstitute.org/steel...on-protection/
Old 2 weeks ago
  #9
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Kyle P. Gushue's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MariusPerron View Post
Kyle P. Gushue
Im unclear why punching holes in the concrete is more desirable than running thru the walls??

Choose one for better isolation between rooms
A. holes in walls of adjacent rooms for electrical outlets

or

B. conduit through the slab that emerges way across the other side of the building
———————-
Either way the wire runs from across the other side of the building to each room. I don't see any difference in that regard.

When you use surface mount there is no holes in the wall for outlets. Just a single sealed entry point into the room.

I'm not seeing any clear advantage in isolation running conduit under the slab. Maybe im missing something. Just seems like an added expense, and more difficult.

Im reminded of a toy they had at the park which was a pipe run underground that ran across the playground. The pipe stuck out of the ground on either side and was designed so you could talk and hear the other person thru the pipe.

Anyway just figured id mention it. Good luck.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #10
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avare's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle P. Gushue View Post
I'm not seeing any clear advantage in isolation running conduit under the slab. Maybe im missing something. Just seems like an added expense, and more difficult.
The conduit is in the slab. It is actually cheaper if done as the facility is being built.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #11
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Kyle P. Gushue's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by avare View Post
The conduit is in the slab. It is actually cheaper if done as the facility is being built.
Because its Less labour and cheaper materials than surface mount conduit?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #12
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avare's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle P. Gushue View Post
Because its Less labour and cheaper materials than surface mount conduit?
Not cheaper materials, less. Schedule 40 EMT or PVC conduit is the same price buried or flush mounted. You need less to do a direct run than following the walls around a room. THHN is about the same price as THWN if you are on grade.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #13
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Kyle P. Gushue's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by avare View Post
Not cheaper materials, less. Schedule 40 EMT or PVC conduit is the same price buried or flush mounted. You need less to do a direct run than following the walls around a room. THHN is about the same price as THWN if you are on grade.
cool, thank you for explaining!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #14
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avare's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle P. Gushue View Post
cool, thank you for explaining!
The biggest difference is that the conduit in concrete requires planning.

Hmm, anyone read my tagline lately?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #15
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MariusPerron's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanC View Post
My advice is to run a lot more STP CatX cable than you think you need
Good advice Ryan, thank you!

----------------
Old 2 weeks ago
  #16
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Rick Dalton's Avatar
MariusPerron, I thought maybe you were maybe using galvanized conduit for shielding purposes. Anyway galvanized anything and concrete do not work hand in hand as galvanized needs to be etched (vinegar works for painting it). Also You don't want to use Schedule 40 PVC as it is brittle and will fracture, Not as flexible as one would think.
Example, look up mortality and injury's from using it for air lines. Just a heads up! Been there, done that!
How do you purpose you 90 degree elbows? (You have 90's and then you 90's) and they'll have to come through your base plates,(or what ever) into the walls. (depending on what type of Wall) Concrete?
I can give you cons, all day long. How's the roof on this Studio to be constructed? Crawl Space?

Hows your HVAC to be laid out?
How are you going to upgrade/fish cables, if need be? you'll need junction boxes.
Galvanized Conduit would be your best bet, "Just not in concrete".
You gain extra EMI Shielding, Junction Box's, No worry's of fracture so your conduit turns into an (I wished/ing well).
You'd be surprised at all the galvanized HVAC ductwork/vents "in" the slab on grade, I seen over the years, and were just that. (Wishing Wells)
You never know when and where your water table will be, etc,etc.
Anyway, Good Luck with it, and Codes.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #17
Gear Nut
 
MariusPerron's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Dalton View Post
Hey MariusPerron, here's something you may want to look at. I'm sure your contractor will know what will and wont work.

https://forums.mikeholt.com/threads/...oncrete.87618/
https://steeltubeinstitute.org/steel...on-protection/
You bring up a good point, Rick. Luckily, I have some high priced MEP engineers on the job. They've done a lot of commercial buildings - just no recording studios! I am sure they have dealt conduit in the slab. But I will pass these helpful links along to them.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #18
Gear Nut
 
MariusPerron's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by avare View Post
The biggest difference is that the conduit in concrete requires planning.

Hmm, anyone read my tagline lately?
I have been "planning" myself to death! I can't sleep at night... So many details...

Avare - do you offer therapy?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #19
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Rick Dalton's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MariusPerron View Post
You bring up a good point, Rick. Luckily, I have some high priced MEP engineers on the job. They've done a lot of commercial buildings - just no recording studios! I am sure they have dealt conduit in the slab. But I will pass these helpful links along to them.
Good you have engineers, I use to build underground houses, and such,,,! One more thing, when it comes to the concrete, Make damn sure, it's not a greenhorn bringing and dumping it, We had one once, and he went full bore, ripped, wadded up ribebar, you name it,,,. Man Oh Man!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #20
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avare's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MariusPerron View Post
Avare - do you offer therapy?
Aspirin is cheaper by the case.
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