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Verifying plan for soundproofing
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1
Verifying plan for soundproofing

I'm having a guest house soundproofed, and a reputable studio builder created a soundproofing outline to give to my contractor. The room is actually decent in terms of sound isolation already, but the doors and window are obvious weak points.

The soundproofing outline is as follows:

- Install batt insulation filling 100% in walls, floor and ceiling
- Apply Acoustiblok 16 1/8” mass loaded vinyl onto floor joists, wall studs, and ceiling rafters per manufacturers recommendation.
- Apply 5/8 inch gypsum wall board on walls and ceiling. If cost permits, apply a second layer of 5/8 inch gypsum wall board (stagger seams). And if cost permits, apply Green Glue between the two layers of gypsum board at 2 tubes per 32 square feet.
- Apply wood sub-floor over mass loaded vinyl and finish as specified
- Replace operable window with a quality dual glazed fixed window on the exterior side, and 9/16 inch laminated glass on the interior with a minimum of 1.5 inches of space between them (best performance).
- Replace the entry door with a min 43 db acoustic door from Vancouver or equivalent. Option is to install 1 ¾ inch solid core door (if existing door is less than this) and improve seals.

I'm a little bit thrown off from googling MLV and green glue. A lot of sites seem say green glue is a miracle, yet other sites say it's not the greatest and expensive.

In this case, does the usage of Acoustiblok as a must-do vs. green glue as an option make sense?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #2
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Kyle P. Gushue's Avatar
MLV is very expensive mass generally speaking. 5/8 drywall is often the best bang for the buck especially in North America. If budget is high and space is at a premium it can make sense, but most often a couple inches can be used in the space, and several hundred % saved.

In certain cases Green Glue is useful and cost effective.

It all comes down to exactly what your trying to isolate. Conversations vs music require different approaches.

Its also important to know if the room is already drywalled or not.

Soundproofwindows.com makes reputable acoustic windows that drop directly into typical residential openings.

Instead of MLV i would use whisper clips or risc1 clips on the walls and ceiling. Then apply a couple drywall layers to that. Green Glue if budget permits. For real isolation you need decoupling, which is what the clips do, and mass (drywall ect), air sealed.

The clips can give somewhere around a 9-12 db reduction, which would require several layers of MLV to match. They are probably cheaper than a single mlv layer too.

For the floor, adding an layer of self leveling concrete would be effective.

Again it depends on what exactly you need to isolate, and how quiet it needs to be. How the guest house is (or isn't) attached to the main house makes a difference.

Then plan outlined for you sounds to me like it's going to offer a small amount of isolation at a premium price. Not ideal.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #3
The room is down to its studs.

Space is very much a premium - it’s only 13x11ft.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #4
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Kyle P. Gushue's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxiedaniels View Post
The room is down to its studs.

Space is very much a premium - it’s only 13x11ft.
You can gain isolation adding drywall in between the wall bays. This takes up no space in the internal room.

With regard to the rest of it, it again depends on how much isolation you want.

The 1/8" acoustiblok weighs 1 lb per sq ft. Half of what a 5/8" drywall sheet weighs. To match drywall you've got to go 1/4" acoustiblok, and even then your getting less mass, and saving less than half and inch. Plus spending way more. And giving a contractor a material he is unfamiliar with, and is more likely to mess up, and take longer installing. Costing even more money...

Ill state again. The plan you have is relatively expensive, and minimally effective. It's just not an efficeint way to go financially or acoustically.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle P. Gushue View Post
Plus spending way more. And giving a contractor a material he is unfamiliar with, and is more likely to mess up, and take longer installing. Costing even more money...

Ill state again. The plan you have is relatively expensive, and minimally effective. It's just not an efficeint way to go financially or acoustically.
Hmmm. Well, thank you for the advice. The guy who is helping me with this is very experienced, so I’ll have to ask him why he would go the MLV route.

In terms of installation ease, aren’t clips way more difficult to get right? I’ve read that you have to be very careful in order to fully decouple, and MLV seems like you just nail it to the studs and that’s it. I did look up the price though and it is extremely pricey. :/
Old 2 weeks ago
  #6
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avare's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxiedaniels View Post
In terms of installation ease, aren’t clips way more difficult to get right? I’ve read that you have to be very careful in order to fully decouple, and MLV seems like you just nail it to the studs and that’s it. I did look up the price though and it is extremely pricey. :/
Kyle wrote in post 2:
Quote:
Again it depends on what exactly you need to isolate, and how quiet it needs to be. How the guest house is (or isn't) attached to the main house makes a difference.
If you need the isolation of of clips you need it. You have not defined how much isolation you need from what.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #7
Ah, sorry.

Guest house is unattached, but my concern is purely about the neighbors (houses are side by side, 20 feet apart probably).

I did some testing, and when playing inside the room @ 85db, the sound outside is about 58db. @ 95db , it's 63db.

I'd like to bring the level at 85db down to ambient, which is around 38db.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #8
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avare's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxiedaniels View Post
Ah, sorry.

Guest house is unattached, but my concern is purely about the neighbors (houses are side by side, 20 feet apart probably).

I did some testing, and when playing inside the room @ 85db, the sound outside is about 58db. @ 95db , it's 63db.

I'd like to bring the level at 85db down to ambient, which is around 38db.
Playing live?

Kyle gas given you good advice. T/he weak points in your plan are window and the door. Kyle gave good advice on the window. About the door I strongly recommend rod's "superdoor" from his book "Recording Studio: Build it like the Pros" or similar built up. Be aware commercial door seals are expensive as are hinges to hold the mass.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by avare View Post
Playing live?
Singing and monitoring with a sub.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #10
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Kyle P. Gushue's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxiedaniels View Post
Hmmm. Well, thank you for the advice. The guy who is helping me with this is very experienced, so I’ll have to ask him why he would go the MLV route.

In terms of installation ease, aren’t clips way more difficult to get right? I’ve read that you have to be very careful in order to fully decouple, and MLV seems like you just nail it to the studs and that’s it. I did look up the price though and it is extremely pricey. :/
Avare speaks truths.

----

Clips are super simple to install. You just screw them in.

The problem with the original approach, is the mass is not decoupled. You trade mlv for clips, and you gain roughly 10db and its probably cheaper.

A method i like is clips for the ceiling, and double wood frame walls. Its simpler than an entirely clips based approach, and cheaper. It gives up an inch or two relative to clip systems, but is not a big deal unless it violates code, which is doesn't in your case. Gain back the inch or two by using thin vinyl floor moulding, or none at all.

Ditto for the floor. Swap out mlv and plywood, for self leveling concrete.

Im assuming you're singing into a PA with a sub, with music playing. If music is involved Low Frequency attenuation is critical. The lower the frequency the more challenging to isolate.

If you redo the test by playing an 80 or 60 or 50hz sine wave at 85 db, you will likely see it is only reduced 10-15 db a couple feet outside. So you need cheaper, better located mass, decoupled, to make a dent in the LF attenuation. The original plan doesn't offer enough LF.

Its highly suggested you get the book Avare referenced, its must read. It includes plenty of drawings you can print for your builder.
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