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New control room challenge : 800 square feet with floor absorption and weird windows
Old 12th June 2020
  #1
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New control room challenge : 800 square feet with floor absorption and weird windows

Hey guys, i've finally moved into the new house, so after spending 2 years getting an outstanding sound from my old studio (300 square feet), i've got to redo it all over again !


-room is 75m2 (806ft2)
-ceiling height is 2.9m (9.5ft)
-ceiling will be filled with broadband absorption.
-floor is tiles but it will be wood, with special absorbing deck under the console area.
-i'm going to fully treat the room with basstrap, hh resonators and finally diffusors.
- i'll do the same process as in my other room : when i get the acoustic under full control (especially waterfall), i'll apply a thin layer of XTA DSP to tune the speakers and crossovers.



This time i think it will be easier because the volume of the room is huge (to me, european). i'm not too worried about controling the energy, but i've have a few specific questions :

- in my old studio, i fought for a long time a dip at 100hz, caused by the floor (even considered the 2sub technic on the floor under each speaker). i did manage to kill it with a ton of HH resonators placed under and around the console, but it was really a pain. i thought about making some kind of deck, with broad band absorption inside, in order to minimize this 100hz dip, and have a "floor trap", what do you think ?

- is the window going to be a problem ? (other than leaks, i'm already not putting the console right under it to avoid any problems)

- i'm thinking of extending the wall on the left side, and moving the bar, in order to block reflections on my left side, any thought on that ?

-i think i'll start with a sort of LEDE room, but i'm afraid that i'll have to cover the back wall at least (it's nice stones too).
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Old 21st June 2020
  #2
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well, i went on with my idea, i'm almost done with the floor.
there is 200mm of floor broad absorption under the console with a rockwool i've successfully used before.

i'll use this thread as a journal, like with my current studio, i'll post all designs and measures as i go on
Attached Thumbnails
New control room challenge : 800 square feet with floor absorption and weird windows-53dcd596-44af-44e4-8662-40913db9818a.jpg   New control room challenge : 800 square feet with floor absorption and weird windows-71c2426f-ffbf-485f-918f-984874b72117.jpg   New control room challenge : 800 square feet with floor absorption and weird windows-img_6193.jpg  
Old 22nd June 2020
  #3
Lives for gear
Why didn't you just buy (or DIY) 2 subwoofers? It would have been more "safe"...and more predictable as Jens suggested in your thread :
Should i consider a sub ? (REW data included)

"Two subs on the floor, positioned close to the mains (in the width dimension, not depth: close to front wall is often the best place in depth dimension) and integrated properly (X-over, alignment, correction etc.) with a DSP is in my opinion the best solution. One reason being that it´s often (almost always) a good thing to be able to cross over fairly high (150 Hz or even higher, assuming you can position the subs in a way so that works) since it´s then possible to get rid of the often otherwise problematic dip due to SBIR related to floor bounce (often showing up at around 100-150 Hz (depending on position of source and receiver)." Jens Eklund.


I would never treat my room based on my ideas, but only on very solid referenced papers. You're brave!

Worth reading IMO :

By Northward : Greatest studio designs

By Jens : Flooring question
Old 23rd June 2020
  #4
Gear Head
 
spirit's Avatar
 

Smile

Do you mean a 'peak' at 100Hz?
Adding Helmholtz absorption would only make a "dip" worse.

It sounds like you are trying to address a specific problem with your console platform. But if it is built as a broadband absorber, it's not really a specific solution. Do you know that you have a 100 Hz issue again in this room?
If it is a 100 Hz peak, I wonder if it is more of a resonance issue from a poorly supported floor. In that case, you need to either:
A) re-enforce the floor joists below (for example, it may be too long of a span, with relatively undersized joists)
B) add mass to your deck - preferably something with high density and good dampening - like sand, for example. But you may need to provide additional support to the floor joists before loading the floor with sand (e.g.. jack posts)

Other than poor isolation, the windows shouldn't be problematic. But, I would be surprised if they have an STC rating of more than about 20. So, just as long as you recognize they will be the weak point in your room, as far as isolation is concerned. Depending upon what/ who is on the other side, that may/ may not be okay.

Good luck. Very exciting for you, I'm sure.

Tim
Old 26th June 2020
  #5
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Hey guys, thanks for answering on that thread, i'm not moving much on the building atm but still doing bits at the time. just finished the entire floor.

from my experience with my previous control room, a dip or a peak is the same, it means that a particular frequency needs absorption : too much energy. whether it's a peak or a dip just means that your mic is in the bottom or the top of the wave (to simplify). the goal is to reduce the amplitude of that wave (which you can hear if you put only one frequency and walk into the room, you can actually hear the fluctuation especially in mids).

In my precedent studio, i had great results when i tried to put broadband absorption under and around the floor of the listenning area, so that's why i wanted to try this giant basstracp absorber on the floor.
i even kept dampenning in the previous room, wich left me not a lot of space for me feet but helped me achieve great results (within 2DB of range on FR without curve smoothing from 40 to 500hz, taking average of 7 points in the sweet spot).


i'm confident this floortrap will be effective.
maybe i'll be wrong thought, but i had to try it

i'll post more pictures in the next days, can't wait to start measuring
Old 26th June 2020
  #6
Gear Nut
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayPee View Post
Why didn't you just buy (or DIY) 2 subwoofers? It would have been more "safe"...and more predictable as Jens suggested in your thread :
Should i consider a sub ? (REW data included)

post0.html"]Flooring question[/URL]
Hey, well the two sub method is a way to fix a problem. i'm hoping that the floor trap will take care of that problem prior to that.
i believe that even if it doesn't work 100%, i cant still do the 2 sub method later.
Old 27th June 2020
  #7
Lives for gear
Did you calculate the resonance frequency of your floor?
Old 28th June 2020
  #8
Gear Head
 
spirit's Avatar
 

I believe what you are measuring is a null (or at least a non-peak amplitude) of a particular frequency.

If you locate at 2 positions in the room relative to the peak and trough of a resonant frequency, the amplitudes, on your SPL meter/ software, will be the same and maximal at both locations- but not opposite in magnitude. The measurement device rectifies the input and averages it over time.

If you are located at a node, the amplitude will be minimal, appearing as a ‘dip’ relative to other positions or frequencies. The important point is that, at a node there is an absence of amplitude/ sound pressure. You need to determine why you have this behaviour at that location.

If it is a result of normal modal resonance, the solution is to re-locate your mix position, not add absorption (note, I’m not talking about the situation of coincident modes, causing increased amplitude, in which case, tuned absorption would be appropriate)

If the issue is a result of reflected bass frequencies and destructive interference, the solution is to apply broadband absorption to the reflecting surface(s).

A reasonable first step is to determine if the problematic frequency is one of your room modes. There are online calculators for this. I would look at axial modes first. But beware, most calculators assume a rectangular room. If you have parallel boundaries though, the math could be valid.

Reflections will cause constructive and destructive interference, meaning that you will see boosting and attenuation of different frequencies at different locations - far from a flat line. So, using broadband absorption is common.

I prefer membrane absorbers (limp mass type), rather than porous absorption.

Reflected bass frequencies are actually a very common problem, and the reason why the rear wall is usually loaded with broadband bass absorption.

Ethan Weiner has a lot of great information about this problem on his Realtraps website.


Cheers,

Tim
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