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Bass Traps also deaden room plus diffuser location
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1
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skiroy's Avatar
Bass Traps also deaden room plus diffuser location

Hello Guys,
So Im in a 15 x 12 x 8 foot room and I attach my REW results of my Listening position. I currently have 11 broad band panels and a 1.43 RT60 so I dealing with the common small room issue. I also have carpet which Im going to change to wood. My listening room is also my Vocal room. So Im in the common situation of trying to improve my room frequency curve but not over deadened it.

I obviously need to add some high density sound absorption to help with the low end. And Im also looking into diffusers to help bring back some reverberation without compromising frequency absorption. So trying to figure all this out I have the following question:

1. Will carbon bass traps also absorb mid to high frequencies and deaden my room even more?

2.Will replacing my carpet with wood add more frequency response issues in a 15 x 12 x 8 room?

3. In the spirit of adding diffusion to remove some of my broad panels to help liven it to .3 secs. Where is the best places to add them.?I currently have absorption panels above my vocal area to eliminate reflects. Would a diffuser above my vocal area be a good idea?

4. As far as the mixing position I know its common to put diffusers on the back wall behind my back, but what about on the ceiling right above the speakers? I currently have a absorption panel.
Attached Thumbnails
Bass Traps also deaden room plus diffuser location-eq-1.jpg   Bass Traps also deaden room plus diffuser location-rt60.jpg  
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiroy View Post
Hello Guys,
So Im in a 15 x 12 x 8 foot room and I attach my REW results of my Listening position. I currently have 11 broad band panels and a 1.43 RT60 so I dealing with the common small room issue. I also have carpet which Im going to change to wood. My listening room is also my Vocal room. So Im in the common situation of trying to improve my room frequency curve but not over deadened it.

I obviously need to add some high density sound absorption to help with the low end. And Im also looking into diffusers to help bring back some reverberation without compromising frequency absorption. So trying to figure all this out I have the following question:

1. Will carbon bass traps also absorb mid to high frequencies and deaden my room even more?

2.Will replacing my carpet with wood add more frequency response issues in a 15 x 12 x 8 room?

3. In the spirit of adding diffusion to remove some of my broad panels to help liven it to .3 secs. Where is the best places to add them.?I currently have absorption panels above my vocal area to eliminate reflects. Would a diffuser above my vocal area be a good idea?

4. As far as the mixing position I know its common to put diffusers on the back wall behind my back, but what about on the ceiling right above the speakers? I currently have a absorption panel.
Forget about diffusion for now and focus on getting the low end under control first. Also diffusion doesn't just "diffuse" it arbsorbs frequencies as well. It serves a purpose as part of an overall balanced design. The recommended distance for listening from a diffuser is about 3 times the length of the freq you are trying to diffuse.

I've been in some small control rooms here in the NYC and i know they just threw up diffusers because they looked cool, even though they were skewing the frequency response at the listening position because they were sitting too close.


Lastly how did you come to the decision on .3 sec for a decay time on a room your size? What does the REW RT60 Topt measurement say for your measurement?

"HD absorption" is normally not used for low absorption. Because bass traps tend to be deeper, fluffy insulation with a lower flow resistivity works better.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3
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skiroy's Avatar
Hello,
I actually didnt know REW would give a suggested RT60 for my room and dont know how to do that. It was based on reading that .2-.5 is the goal for a listening room. Since I would be recording Vocals and occasional guitar I guessed that .3 would give a little more liveliness. But after experimenting for Room plugins on my vocals I think .2 to .25 sounded good to me. Obviously not the same thing but good enough to start a goal with.

So are you saying diffusers about vocal area or the speakers is a bad idea and the back wall would be the only logical place to start if its even neccesary in the first place?

Is my frequency curve look okay for the mids and highs, but the lows and low mids are what you see as my problematic areas? I honestly would know how to tackle the low end issues without making my room even more dead.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #4
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiroy View Post
Hello,
I actually didnt know REW would give a suggested RT60 for my room and dont know how to do that. It was based on reading that .2-.5 is the goal for a listening room. Since I would be recording Vocals and occasional guitar I guessed that .3 would give a little more liveliness. But after experimenting for Room plugins on my vocals I think .2 to .25 sounded good to me. Obviously not the same thing but good enough to start a goal with.

So are you saying diffusers about vocal area or the speakers is a bad idea and the back wall would be the only logical place to start if its even neccesary in the first place?

Is my frequency curve look okay for the mids and highs, but the lows and low mids are what you see as my problematic areas? I honestly would know how to tackle the low end issues without making my room even more dead.

Can you post the REW MDAT?

REW doesn't suggest an RT60 Topt.

The .2sec recommendation for a room your size is based on EBu Tech 3276.

It depends on what kind of what kind of diffusers we are talking about and how deep will they have to be to function for the purpose you need. Your room isn't that big to begin with and to control the bass area will take some depth. If you use a diffuser with wells that are 7.5-9" deep, that doesn't leave you much space for the soft bass trapping.

If you work backwards, focus on getting the bass under control first, you will find that you will over dampen the room much less. Its when people work top down that they end up dampening the space too much and the frequency bands in thir RT60 Topt become skewed.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #5
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skiroy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
Can you post the REW MDAT?



If you work backwards, focus on getting the bass under control first, you will find that you will over dampen the room much less. Its when people work top down that they end up dampening the space too much and the frequency bands in thir RT60 Topt become skewed.
Can you advise on how on how to do this? What approach do I use for the Bass traping? And I was not trying to use diffusers for bass issues. My intention was to use some diffusers for broad band reflects in order to take down some of my broad band panels in the rooms ceiling corners as an attempt to reliven it.

Any diffuser deep recommendations and location to use for broad band vs low end diffusion?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #6
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiroy View Post
Can you advise on how on how to do this? What approach do I use for the Bass traping? And I was not trying to use diffusers for bass issues. My intention was to use some diffusers for broad band reflects in order to take down some of my broad band panels in the rooms ceiling corners as an attempt to reliven it.

Any diffuser deep recommendations and location to use for broad band vs low end diffusion?
Attach the REW MDAT measurement to this thread.

Diffusors can absorb and reflect.
That's why if you are going to use them in a space you have to understand what the intended goal is and if its the right course of treatment.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #7
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Sorry I posted in first post what Im familiar with. What is the MDAT?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #8
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skiroy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiroy View Post
Sorry I posted in first post what Im familiar with. What is the MDAT?
As far as Low end I unfortunately am packed into a small room with lots of equipment and really only have to corners from floor to ceiling and one area behind my keyboards about a 1/3 of the room to do bass trapping. Can I expect any noticeable results with treating these areas and can you advise on my approach?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiroy View Post
Sorry I posted in first post what Im familiar with. What is the MDAT?
That is the REW measurement.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiroy View Post
A Can I expect any noticeable results with treating these areas and can you advise on my approach?
Honestly?
Not much. 60% of the room is usually the minimum, all the surfaces except the floor is best.

But something is better than nothing and you forgot to mention the ceiling. For a vocal space treating the ceiling and making it "disappear" is just as important.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #11
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skiroy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
Honestly?
Not much. 60% of the room is usually the minimum, all the surfaces except the floor is best.

But something is better than nothing and you forgot to mention the ceiling. For a vocal space treating the ceiling and making it "disappear" is just as important.
How would one make the ceiling disappear?

Perhaps I can remove my broad band panels in the ceilings corners and replace them with corner shapped boxes to line 3 walls of the room where the wall meets the ceiling(ceiling corners). I could also do this in 3 corners of room. The question would be what to fill them with . I could do carbon in the corners but the ceiling corners would be way to heavy filled with carbon. Im hearing conflict info on bass absorbtion. Ive heard high density Carbon must be used where others have said to use Owens Corning 700?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiroy View Post
How would one make the ceiling disappear?

Perhaps I can remove my broad band panels in the ceilings corners and replace them with corner shapped boxes to line 3 walls of the room where the wall meets the ceiling(ceiling corners). I could also do this in 3 corners of room. The question would be what to fill them with . I could do carbon in the corners but the ceiling corners would be way to heavy filled with carbon. Im hearing conflict info on bass absorbtion. Ive heard high density Carbon must be used where others have said to use Owens Corning 700?
What I am mean by making the ceiling "disappear" is make it absorptive completely down to the first mode so there are no reflections down to the microphone.
So trap the entire ceiling and go as deep as you can.

Before deciding on what kind of panels to try, find out first what the issues are. Download REW, buy a USB mic and shoot the space. Analyze it first and then decide what course to take.

Don't just throw things up on the wall or the corners for the sake of putting things up because you read it somewhere.
Old 1 week ago
  #13
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skiroy's Avatar
Hello,
I did shoot my room with REW. Its on my first post. What do you mean by trapping the whole ceiling. Putting thick panels? I have 8ft ceiling so I couldnt go more than 8 inches thick before I was boxed in as Im 6,7". Would 8inch panels even be effective for bass? What material is best?
Old 1 week ago
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiroy View Post
Hello,
I did shoot my room with REW. Its on my first post. What do you mean by trapping the whole ceiling. Putting thick panels? I have 8ft ceiling so I couldnt go more than 8 inches thick before I was boxed in as Im 6,7". Would 8inch panels even be effective for bass? What material is best?
Do at least a foot. I am 6' 1" and being in rooms that have been treated down to 7 feet doesn't feel claustrophobic if you use a light colored fabric for ceiling.

Home Depot safe and sound 16 will work great.

Can you post or attach the REW measurement that you made for further analysis?
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