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Electrical Outlets on RSIC-1 Walls: Prevent Flanking, Preserve Decoupling
Old 4 days ago
  #1
Electrical Outlets on RSIC-1 Walls: Prevent Flanking, Preserve Decoupling

Hi -

Garage studio build in progress.
My inner walls (& ceiling) will be decoupled from the studs using RSIC-1 clips + hat channel and 5/8" drywall.

When installing outlets, I'm concerned that if the boxes are mounted to the studs, then attached to the drywall, it may compromise the decoupling. Is this something that I should worry about or not?

Also, I do plan on using fire mud / putty pads to ensure an airtight assembly. But help sorting out the decoupling aspect would be appreciated.

What's the best method for mounting outlets on this type of wall assembly?


Thanks!
Old 4 days ago
  #2
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Jason Foi's Avatar
 

Yes, thats a potential problem. I would run exposed conduit on the inner leaf wall or floor.
Old 4 days ago
  #3
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Kyle P. Gushue's Avatar
Best bet is surface mount boxes. Im pretty sure they make recessed boxes that mount directly to the drywall for situations where you need an outlet in a location where there is no studs.

You could screw a nailer into the drywall, holding the board behind the drywall (thru the hole for the box) and screwing it in from the front of the drywall.

I would be very careful with boxes supported by thr drywall alone or a nailer not fixed to a stud or channel. When unplugging or plugging stuff its easy to break the drywall.

You can skip the conduit by hiding the wires behind the acoustic treatment, and mouting the boxes in the treatments frame. You can also hide the wires behind baseboard moulding and/or box it out. We did a combination of this over at Normandy.

There might be an elegant way to mount the recessed boxes to the hat channel, but i would contact risc1 about their suggested methods for this.

It seems simple enough to use surface mount boxes attached to the channel thru the drywall. They also make a covering for the wire. I used this in my cousins project studio. They are 'decrotive' surface boxes and wire covering available at home depot ect.

Using OSB wood as the base layer of sheathing gives you flexibility to mount boxes anywhere.
Old 4 days ago
  #4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle P. Gushue View Post

It seems simple enough to use surface mount boxes attached to the channel thru the drywall.
Thanks Kyle! Yeah it sure sounds simple. But my contractor is concerned that as you said, the amount of pulling involved on the receptacles may be too much force for the drywall and hat channel over time. I agree it doesn't sound ideal. Hiding wires is less an issue, as the romex can be pre-ran before the drywall wall is done, then after drywall is installed they pull it through the drywall and surface mount the outlet box.

I did find this on the PAC website. https://pac-intl.com/mep-isolation.html

Seems odd to me that this config would work as the decouplers are facing a totally different direction than the wall clips. And for the cost, I wonder if it's worth the real world gains over just letting the outlets maybe short the system by a small degree.
Attached Thumbnails
Electrical Outlets on RSIC-1 Walls: Prevent Flanking, Preserve Decoupling-dc04_wall_electrical_box.gif  
Old 4 days ago
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Foi View Post
Yes, thats a potential problem. I would run exposed conduit on the inner leaf wall or floor.
Ok but the question is how do you fasten said conduit or outlet boxes to the inner leaf when the inner leaf is not comprised of a stud.

This is clips + hat channel. Not as strong as a stud.
Old 4 days ago
  #6
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Jason Foi's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SYGNAL View Post
Ok but the question is how do you fasten said conduit or outlet boxes to the inner leaf when the inner leaf is not comprised of a stud.

This is clips + hat channel. Not as strong as a stud.
Then run it on the floor along the wall.
Old 3 days ago
  #7
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Originally Posted by SYGNAL View Post
Ok but the question is how do you fasten said conduit or outlet boxes to the inner leaf when the inner leaf is not comprised of a stud.

This is clips + hat channel. Not as strong as a stud.
I don't see why you couldn't screw into the hat channel. Or you could use walldogs, like drywall anchor screw all in one.
Old 3 days ago
  #8
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Jason Foi's Avatar
 

You could use 1x4 (or whatever) lumber as a base board, run romex in the cavity and mount the gang boxes to the baseboard
Old 3 days ago
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanC View Post
I don't see why you couldn't screw into the hat channel. Or you could use walldogs, like drywall anchor screw all in one.
Right, that was my initial thought. There's the concern that it's not as robust for all the receptacle use over the years. Plugging in and out.

Of course the channel is rated for plenty weight to handle it
Old 3 days ago
  #10
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Originally Posted by SYGNAL View Post
Right, that was my initial thought. There's the concern that it's not as robust for all the receptacle use over the years. Plugging in and out.

Of course the channel is rated for plenty weight to handle it
Yeah, what is the spacing of the hat channel?

You might actually check out the walldogs for screwing into the hat channel. They are like screws with much larger threads. If you put a pilot hole into the hat channel I bet that would hold really well. I used some into some steel studs to hang a fire extinguisher and it's not going anywhere...
Old 3 days ago
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanC View Post
Yeah, what is the spacing of the hat channel?

You might actually check out the walldogs for screwing into the hat channel. They are like screws with much larger threads. If you put a pilot hole into the hat channel I bet that would hold really well. I used some into some steel studs to hang a fire extinguisher and it's not going anywhere...
Nice! So you're talking steel studs in your experience, ever do an RSIC-1 wall?

It's our first time with it, and photos for details like this are hard to come by as the majority of builds go for dual stud assembly.
Old 3 days ago
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYGNAL View Post
Nice! So you're talking steel studs in your experience, ever do an RSIC-1 wall?

It's our first time with it, and photos for details like this are hard to come by as the majority of builds go for dual stud assembly.
No I did all double stud as well..I had some pre existing steel studs where the fire extinguisher is.
Old 3 days ago
  #13
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Kyle P. Gushue's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by SYGNAL View Post
Thanks Kyle! Yeah it sure sounds simple. But my contractor is concerned that as you said, the amount of pulling involved on the receptacles may be too much force for the drywall and hat channel over time. I agree it doesn't sound ideal. Hiding wires is less an issue, as the romex can be pre-ran before the drywall wall is done, then after drywall is installed they pull it through the drywall and surface mount the outlet box.

I did find this on the PAC website. https://pac-intl.com/mep-isolation.html

Seems odd to me that this config would work as the decouplers are facing a totally different direction than the wall clips. And for the cost, I wonder if it's worth the real world gains over just letting the outlets maybe short the system by a small degree.
I definitely would not sacrifice any isolation. Somewhere in resillient channel documentation they show the effect of short circuiting the channel by hitting the studs with the drywall screws, which forms a hard connection between drywall and screws. Something like 3 screws made the assembly 10% worse, and 10 screws made it like 50% less effective.

There isn't much, if any margin for error with isolation, and given its high cost, i would absolutely not compromise it.

The risc 1 diagram is published and tested by them, you can feel safe using that method.

You could also use the long, wall mount "power bars" that look like a thin 10 outlet powerstrip, and mount them to the floor moulding.

You could mount the boxes to the drywall / channel, and run an extension cord or powerstrip, so your putting the wear and tear on those, no the wall mount boxes.

At the wave cave the elctrician used what i think Ryan is describing as wall dogs. Thick, drywall anchors that are threaded, and rated for a certain amount of pull out force like 10lbs or watever, to attach the conduit (and possibly boxes) to the drywall where there were no studs.

You can mount the boxes in/on your acoustic treatment.

If you use a backer board or sheet, so the screws go into the drywall and the wood, this makes it far less likely to pull out. Its common to add these backers when patching dings in drywall too big for spackle. You cut a square hole into the drywall, and place screw the wood strips in behind the drywall, so there is wood exposed for the new little peice of drywall your using to cover the square opening you cut.

You could use the butterfly style drywall anchors. Those are rated for quite a bit of weight each.

You might be able use construction adhesive along with screws, or possibly no screws, to attach the boxes.

Perhaps industrial Velcro would even work. Some of it is rated for like 8lbs or more.

You could also just be real careful using one hand to support the box, the other to plug/unplug stuff.

OSB as the base layer is not a bad idea... (Sorry i keep saying that)

Most stuff almost always stays plugged in, its not a live venue. And most stuff is usually plugged into a powerstrip, or power conditioner, or UPS, not directly to the wall.

I think some thought and planning regrarding which outlets will be "high wear and tear/usage" will help determine where your true trouble spots are. The rest will likely be of no issue, using one of the methods described in the thread.

Why not send pac' international/risc1, an email, asking about the longevity of a surface mount box into hat channel directly. That's why you pay them the big bucks.

Your going to run into similar scenaraios when mounting acoustic treatments, unless they are floor to ceiling, on stands, or you just do another frame for them, which is my preference personally.
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