The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Knauf Acoustic Slab Ultimate - a couple questions
Old 17th January 2020
  #31
Lives for gear
 
avare's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveEnigma View Post
Thanks for your reply, but I edited the post, apparently after you quoted me. Could you please check my previous post again? I appreciate your help.
It is better.
Old 17th January 2020
  #32
Quote:
Originally Posted by avare View Post
It is better.
Okay, thanks a lot for your persistent help. Appreciate it.

Have ordered the Knauf acoustic insulation slabs and fabric. I will remember to post the "observations" after treating the room by end of this month or early next month.
Old 17th January 2020
  #33
Lives for gear
 
avare's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveEnigma View Post
Okay, thanks a lot for your persistent help. Appreciate it.

Have ordered the Knauf acoustic insulation slabs and fabric. I will remember to post the "observations" after treating the room by end of this month or early next month.
You are welcome.

Enjoy the results!
Old 17th January 2020
  #34
Quote:
Originally Posted by avare View Post
You are welcome.

Enjoy the results!


What's the best position for the ceiling panel? Should it be between my seating position and monitor speakers?
Old 17th January 2020
  #35
Lives for gear
 
avare's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveEnigma View Post


What's the best position for the ceiling panel? Should it be between my seating position and monitor speakers?
Assuming the speakers are at ear height, mid-point between the speakers and listening position.
Old 17th January 2020
  #36
Quote:
Originally Posted by avare View Post
Assuming the speakers are at ear height, mid-point between the speakers and listening position.
Okay, thanks again. Yes, speakers are at ear height, and all the other important things like equilateral triangle, speaker position in the room, etc. is sorted. Only need to add acoustic treatment.
Old 17th January 2020
  #37
So, I was talking to the carpenter today about making 4" thick panels and I proposed him to make panels with 8" depth but fill it with only 4" slabs for now, and then use the extra 4" depth at the back/bottom in future when I can afford additional 4" slabs.

But I realized that to have this provision, the framer borders being 8" deep, once I mount the panel on the wall, there won't be an open airspace as such due to closed frame at the back side. The panel back will still be 4" off the wall, but kinda closed. Will this be a problem? If this is a problem, can I circumvent it by having this full 8" panel off the wall by 1 cm or so to aid "some" air flow on the back?

Alternatively, shall I skip making 8" deep wooden frames and just make 4" only frames and space them 4" away from the wall fully using spacers? This way I won't be able to "upgrade" my panels to 8" in future.

I hope the explanation is clear enough. I would appreciate some advice here.
Old 17th January 2020
  #38
Lives for gear
 
avare's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveEnigma View Post
So, I was talking to the carpenter today about making 4" thick panels and I proposed him to make panels with 8" depth but fill it with only 4" slabs for now, and then use the extra 4" depth at the back/bottom in future when I can afford additional 4" slabs.

But I realized that to have this provision, the framer borders being 8" deep, once I mount the panel on the wall, there won't be an open airspace as such due to closed frame at the back side. The panel back will still be 4" off the wall, but kinda closed. Will this be a problem? If this is a problem, can I circumvent it by having this full 8" panel off the wall by 1 cm or so to aid "some" air flow on the back?

Alternatively, shall I skip making 8" deep wooden frames and just make 4" only frames and space them 4" away from the wall fully using spacers? This way I won't be able to "upgrade"
I hope the explanation is clear enough. I would appreciate some advice here.
The absorber is 4" insula ion with a 4" gap. The gap is not a compromise. Filling it would decrease absorption in the low frequencies. The back does not have to be sealed.
Old 17th January 2020
  #39
Quote:
Originally Posted by avare View Post
The absorber is 4" insula ion with a 4" gap. The gap is not a compromise. Filling it would decrease absorption in the low frequencies. The back does not have to be sealed.
Thanks for the prompt reply. The back will not be sealed, but since I was thinking about 8" panels with 4" filling, there would be a hollow area at the back which would get closed (not visible) once the panel is mounted against the wall (applicable for side walls, rear wall and ceiling).

So, if I understand it right, I should keep the wooden frame only 4" thick only and space it 4" from the wall, right? Please see the attached mock up.

Should I skip the idea of upgrading the panels to 8" thick? I thought ability to add more 4" acoustic slab will be beneficial in future.
Attached Thumbnails
Knauf Acoustic Slab Ultimate - a couple questions-broadband-panel-wall-spacing.jpg  
Old 17th January 2020
  #40
Lives for gear
 
avare's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveEnigma View Post
Thanks for the prompt reply. The back will not be sealed, but since I was thinking about 8" panels with 4" filling, there would be a hollow area at the back which would get closed (not visible) once the panel is mounted against the wall (applicable for side walls, rear wall and ceiling).

So, if I understand it right, I should keep the wooden frame only 4" thick only and space it 4" from the wall, right? Please see the attached mock up.

Should I skip the idea of upgrading the panels to 8" thick? I thought ability to add more 4" acoustic slab will be beneficial in future.
I repeat. The
gap is an integral part of the absorption. If you seal it or suspend the insulation makes no difference.
Old 17th January 2020
  #41
Quote:
Originally Posted by avare View Post
I repeat. The
gap is an integral part of the absorption. If you seal it or suspend the insulation makes no difference.
Sorry, but I am having some trouble understanding this. I do get the point that air gap is part of the absorption (4" + 4"), but my questions were more about panelling structure of 8" depth frame.

So, now if I understand correctly, what I mentioned about making 8" panels will work fine, right? I mean starting from left wall, 8" off the wall = 4" air gap (sealed on all four sides due to frame, but hollow so that insulation has gap to wall) + 4" insulating material covered with fabric on the front. Does this make sense?

If it is fine/correct, should I worry about filling this 4" air gap with 4" Knauf acoustic slab in future to make it total 8" thick acoustic slab with basically no air gap?

Please clarify in layman terms.
Old 17th January 2020
  #42
Lives for gear
 
avare's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveEnigma View Post
Sorry, but I am having some trouble understanding this. I do get the point that air gap is part of the absorption (4" + 4"), but my questions were more about panelling structure of 8" depth frame.

So, now if I understand correctly, what I mentioned about making 8" panels will work fine, right? I mean starting from left wall, 8" off the wall = 4" air gap (sealed on all four sides due to frame, but hollow so that insulation has gap to wall) + 4" insulating material covered with fabric on the front. Does this make sense?
This is correct.

Quote:
If it is fine/correct, should I worry about filling this 4" air gap with 4" Knauf acoustic slab in future to make it total 8" thick acoustic slab with basically no air gap?

Please clarify in layman terms.
No. Do not fill it.
Old 17th January 2020
  #43
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveEnigma View Post
Sorry, but I am having some trouble understanding this. I do get the point that air gap is part of the absorption (4" + 4"), but my questions were more about panelling structure of 8" depth frame.

So, now if I understand correctly, what I mentioned about making 8" panels will work fine, right? I mean starting from left wall, 8" off the wall = 4" air gap (sealed on all four sides due to frame, but hollow so that insulation has gap to wall) + 4" insulating material covered with fabric on the front. Does this make sense?
Quote:
This is correct.
Phew, thanks a ton. So, the above is one way (8" deep) of making the frames for panels. See below. *

Quote:
If it is fine/correct, should I worry about filling this 4" air gap with 4" Knauf acoustic slab in future to make it total 8" thick acoustic slab with basically no air gap?

Please clarify in layman terms.
Quote:
No. Do not fill it.
Great, thanks again!

* But since 8" future proofing is not necessary to replace the 4" air gap with 4" insulation, I can simply avoid making 8" deep frames if that's more convenient for the carpenter, right? I mean just 4" thick, finished panels, and then mount them on wall (using spacers) such that there is a 4" air gap. Please see the attachment below showing what I am saying.
Attached Thumbnails
Knauf Acoustic Slab Ultimate - a couple questions-broadband-panel-wall-spacing.jpg  
Old 17th January 2020
  #44
Lives for gear
 
avare's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveEnigma View Post
But since 8" future proofing is not necessary to replace the 4" air gap with 4" insulation, I can simply avoid making 8" deep frames if that's more convenient for the carpenter, right? I mean just 4" thick, finished panels, and then mount them on wall (using spacers) such that there is a 4" air gap. Please see the attachment below showing what I am saying.
Correct. The question is dealing with 24 to 48 spacers is better than havinga a straight surface to mount against.
Old 17th January 2020
  #45
Quote:
Originally Posted by avare View Post
Correct. The question is dealing with 24 to 48 spacers is better than havinga a straight surface to mount against.
Thanks again. Yes, I get it. Having spacers helps two ways: mainly to get the desired air gap and secondly it provides a good mechanism for easier hooking and removal of panels from the wall. Additionally, it also prevents wall from getting potentially stained making it is easier to clean the wall, and prevents any moisture which might cause vermin. Is my understanding correct?

I also hope that you were able to see my attachment. Asking just to be sure that it's getting uploaded properly and everyone can see it.
Old 17th January 2020
  #46
Lives for gear
 
avare's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveEnigma View Post
Thanks again. Yes, I get it. Having spacers helps two ways: mainly to get the desired air gap and secondly it provides a good mechanism for easier hooking and removal of panels from the wall. Additionally, it also prevents wall from getting potentially stained making it is easier to clean the wall, and prevents any moisture which might cause vermin. Is my understanding correct?

I also hope that you were able to see my attachment. Asking just to be sure that it's getting uploaded properly and everyone can see it.
Yes I see it.
Old 18th January 2020
  #47
Quote:
Originally Posted by avare View Post
Yes I see it.
Okay.

There is only one concern left now, which is the first reflection point on the left wall. The point is falling right where the window starts and I have a curtain for it. Please see the attachment.

Is there any way to combat this? I will be placing the front wall-wall corner panels, so I only have 1' foot left after which the window starts. So, there will be an overlap of 1' on the window for the 2' width panel.

Will it be OK to just use 1' panel and avoid the window? Not the best thing as the point still lies on the window, but looking for some suggestions.

And while we are at it, the rear/back wall panel can go between the two doors exactly behind my seating position, right?
Attached Thumbnails
Knauf Acoustic Slab Ultimate - a couple questions-new-home-studio-room.jpg  
Old 18th January 2020
  #48
Any suggestion for the above, please?
Old 21st January 2020
  #49
Lives for gear
 

If you cannot hang an absorber permanently in front of that window (to get it symmetrical with the other side of the room) then maybe consider making a movable absorber on a stand (or even on wheels, if you want to get fancy!), so you can slide it into place when you are doing critical listening, then slide it back into the corner when you just want to admire the view out the window.

The curtains are not going to do much as first reflection point absorbers.

- Stuart -
Old 21st January 2020
  #50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundman2020 View Post
If you cannot hang an absorber permanently in front of that window (to get it symmetrical with the other side of the room) then maybe consider making a movable absorber on a stand (or even on wheels, if you want to get fancy!), so you can slide it into place when you are doing critical listening, then slide it back into the corner when you just want to admire the view out the window.

The curtains are not going to do much as first reflection point absorbers.

- Stuart -
Thanks, Stuart. Appreciate your advice.

In the meantime, I figured out that I can hang the 2' wide panel such that approx. 1' foot will lie on either side of the window border. This means instead of putting hooks on two (horizontal) corners of the panel, I will place one on the right corner and one in the center. The carpenter said it is doable. This will not be the ideal position as the panel needs to be further into the window by maybe a couple more inches, but hopefully it will work out good.

The problem with having a movable absorber is right under the window I have a (non-movable) single bed, which is helping to some extent with the absorption I believe. Also, unfortunately, there is no good view outside the window.

And the plan is to probably tuck the curtains behind the panel.

Hope it works out.

Last edited by LoveEnigma; 21st January 2020 at 06:31 AM.. Reason: typo
Old 13th March 2020
  #51
So, I finally got the chance to complete my DIY acoustic panels, thanks to all the advice shared here.

Material used: Knauf acoustic ultimate slabs (12 pcs. each 4 x 2 ft. and 50 mm thick)
Fiber cloth: Nankarrow Geowave Acoustic Fabric - 12 meters
No. of panels: 6 nos. each 4" thick with 4" air gap.
Mounting: Left and Right walls first reflection points (2), Front wall corners (2), Ceiling (1), Rear wall (1).

Observations: Much better sound with clearer stereo image and less echo and flutter. Room mode at 116 Hz has not dampened fully, but that's OK for me.

I don't have any measured data or graphs, but I think the treatment has made the room better to work with.

Thanks again!
Old 13th March 2020
  #52
Lives for gear
 
Starlight's Avatar
 

Well done and thank you for reporting back and letting us know. That will help in the future when someone finds your topic and can see that it went well.
Old 13th March 2020
  #53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
Well done and thank you for reporting back and letting us know. That will help in the future when someone finds your topic and can see that it went well.
Thank you so much and I will be glad if it helps someone to get the treatment done quickly and in a budget of around $500 (approx. converted from my currency). All credit to you guys. I was just a learner and executor. Best wishes to everyone.
Old 13th March 2020
  #54
Lives for gear
 
avare's Avatar
 

Congratulations!
Old 13th March 2020
  #55
Quote:
Originally Posted by avare View Post
Congratulations!
Thank you so much. Your advice was invaluable.
πŸ“ Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 537 views: 8322
Avatar for OLDNOOB
OLDNOOB 15 hours ago
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
πŸ–¨οΈ Show Printable Version
βœ‰οΈ Email this Page
πŸ” Search thread
πŸŽ™οΈ View mentioned gear
Forum Jump
Forum Jump