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acoustic treatments vs thermal insulation
Old 4th November 2019
  #1
Gear Nut
 

acoustic treatments vs thermal insulation

I have an opportunity to build a mixing/recording studio in a unheated, uninsulated warehouse type space. I'm thinking a "room in a room" type solution where I frame up an enclosed space inside the larger warehouse. The warehouse ceiling is only at 9.5', but I can go up to 20' in width and length.

This is in northern Canada, so I'll need to make sure the room is well insulated (thermally). Something like 6" walls filled with fiberglass or roxul would be about right.

I'm looking for ideas on if and how my thermal insulation might be able to double-duty as acoustic treatment. It seems that roxul/fiberglass will loose R value if I omit the interior panels. So, perhaps there isn't really a good solution, and I simply need to conceive of thermal and acoustic treatments independently.

One more thing: acoustic isolation is not a big concern because it's out in the country with no neighbors.

Opinions and suggestions welcome!
Old 6th November 2019
  #2
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrand View Post
I have an opportunity to build a mixing/recording studio in a unheated, uninsulated warehouse type space. I'm thinking a "room in a room" type solution where I frame up an enclosed space inside the larger warehouse. The warehouse ceiling is only at 9.5', but I can go up to 20' in width and length.

This is in northern Canada, so I'll need to make sure the room is well insulated (thermally). Something like 6" walls filled with fiberglass or roxul would be about right.

I'm looking for ideas on if and how my thermal insulation might be able to double-duty as acoustic treatment.
It will do double duty, go thicker then 6" and use standard fluffy insulation. You can do even double 2x4 framing with R38 or even 2 layers of r38...this will provide excellent thermal insulation as well as excellent bass trapping. You can also build the rooms then "inside out" so the drywall is on the outside and on the ceiling above the inner joists...

We had a early cold snap here and my space has a ton of insulation, heaters aren't installed yet. With lows of 7F, 2 1500w electric space heaters were able to keep the inside (2200sf) in the 50s.
Old 6th November 2019
  #3
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanC View Post
go thicker then 6" and use standard fluffy insulation.
Do you mean pink fiberglass?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanC View Post
You can also build the rooms then "inside out" so the drywall is on the outside and on the ceiling above the inner joists...
Yes, this is something like what I was imagining. What would I line the interior walls with? Light fabric? (to cover/contain the insulation)

Thanks for the input!
Old 7th November 2019
  #4
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrand View Post
Do you mean pink fiberglass?


Yes, this is something like what I was imagining. What would I line the interior walls with? Light fabric? (to cover/contain the insulation)

Thanks for the input!
Yeah when you go deeper than ~8 inches it's actually better to use the regular fluffy fiberglass.

Here is what I'm doing, fabric track with DMD fire rated fabric-

New commercial build in Denver
Old 10th November 2019
  #5
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanC View Post
Here is what I'm doing, fabric track with DMD fire rated fabric-

New commercial build in Denver
Ryan, thanks for linking me to your build thread, that is an impressive project you're working through.

I have so many questions I'd love to ask, but now I feel bad for taking your time!

Perhaps I'll keep an eye on your thread and see if some of them get addressed.

In the meantime, would love to hear from anyone else who has experience building this way (getting double duty from you thermal insulation).
Old 10th November 2019
  #6
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrand View Post
Ryan, thanks for linking me to your build thread, that is an impressive project you're working through.

I have so many questions I'd love to ask, but now I feel bad for taking your time!

Perhaps I'll keep an eye on your thread and see if some of them get addressed.

In the meantime, would love to hear from anyone else who has experience building this way (getting double duty from you thermal insulation).
Sure man...and I don't mind questions. I learned most of what I know on this on here and other forums so the least I can do is return the favor.

Is the rest of this building heated? And are you trying to get sound isolation from the rest of the building or just the outside of that? Do you have a sound isolation target?

From what I know, with thermal insulation it is a diminishing returns type of thing, IE r76 won't offer double the insulation as r38, but also a complete thermal break will add a lot to it (like a beer cooler) and MAM achieves that as well- typical construction does not. In general a properly built MAM studio should naturally have good thermal performance.

It sure does here. To be able to keep a ~30,000 cubic foot space pretty comfy with ~6000btu when it's 7f out is pretty amazing...
Old 10th November 2019
  #7
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanC View Post
Is the rest of this building heated? And are you trying to get sound isolation from the rest of the building or just the outside of that? Do you have a sound isolation target?
The rest of the building is unheated, though it does have a it of insulation. It would be nice (eventually) to get a woodstove in there .

The only sound isolation I'm interested in is being able to record in the room without picking up the highway noise (bear in mind this is the Klondike highway.. pretty quiet!). Isolation from the rest of the building is not a concern at all, and the only neighbour is me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanC View Post
but also a complete thermal break will add a lot to it (like a beer cooler)
I'm almost done a tiny home with an 4" foam thermal envelope wrapped around a simple post/beam framing. The cost of foam up here is kind of nuts, so for this studio build I could try two layers of studframing, staggered (offset?) to avoid the thermal breaks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanC View Post
and MAM achieves that as well- typical construction does not. In general a properly built MAM studio should naturally have good thermal performance.
OK I think I know what you're saying, but noob question here, what's MAM?

Thanks Ryan!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #8
Gear Nut
 

hmmm, not sure how I could maintain the wall's permeability but also include vapour barrier. Seems like I could choose one or the other, but not both.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #9
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrand View Post
OK I think I know what you're saying, but noob question here, what's MAM?

Thanks Ryan!
Oh sorry, MAM or MSM stands for mass-air-mass, or mass-(air)spring-mass. Meaning a room in a room build.
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