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Better Bass in Back of Room
Old 1 week ago
  #1
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EastNashRocker's Avatar
 

Better Bass in Back of Room

My listening position is in the sweet spot of a well treated room. All room corners are bass trapped floor to ceiling, first reflections, cloud, rear wall 100% covered (with 10inches of roxul safe n sound), etc.

When I listen to the bass in the back of the room (or on the far left or right sides) I hear the lowest bass octave but I don't hear that in the listening position as well. What I'm hearing in the back and on the sides are what is translating best to other systems for songs I've mixed. For example, a floor tom resonates naturally to my ears in the back of the room, in my car, but much more tight/flat in the listening position

I can continue to judge the low end from multiple places but I'd rather hear what I need in the sweet spot. If I only listen in the sweet spot it sounds thin and I mix bass heavy. I have three sets of speakers that all sound noticeably thinner at the listening position.

I sit 5.5ft from my speakers, perhaps they don't have enough room for the low end to develop? My room is 15ft deep, 12ft wide, and 10ft high. My REW measurements all look pretty good.. but I'd just like the lowest octave to sound a little more clear/natural where I sit. The rear wall and corners are the most treated, otherwise I'd guess that the boundary reflection is "helping" the low end information. I notice it most from the sub region up to about 150hz.

Thanks for the help and any thoughts/suggestions about how diagnose or treat this
Old 1 week ago
  #2
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Jens Eklund's Avatar
10" of anything (assuming porous only) won't do much for 37-38 Hz (your first theoretical axial mode related to length if 15 ft room), even if all relevant area is treated (all of front and rear wall in this case):

Better Bass in Back of Room-10-vs-15-inches-safe-sound.jpg

10" vs 15" of Safe and Sound

Note that 10" only reaches an absorption coefficient of less than 0,3 compared to over 0,7 for 15” @ 37-38 Hz.
Attached Thumbnails
Better Bass in Back of Room-10-vs-15-inches-safe-sound.jpg  

Last edited by Jens Eklund; 1 week ago at 10:42 AM.. Reason: Added example
Old 1 week ago
  #3
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EastNashRocker's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jens Eklund View Post
10" of anything (assuming porous only) won't do much for 37-38 Hz (your first theoretical axial mode related to length if 15 ft room), even if all relevant area is treated (all of front and rear wall in this case):



10" vs 15" of Safe and Sound

Note that 10" only reaches an absorption coefficient of less than 0,3 compared to over 0,7 for 15” @ 37-38 Hz.
Thanks Jens.. it sounds like you've both diagnosed the issue at my listening position and have given me a way to literally treat this.

If I can add 5 additional inches of absorption to the back wall, that could theoretically solve my problem.. and thus help me hear more clearly into the lowest octave.

About half of my ceiling is untreated, is it preferable to add absorption to the rear wall vs the ceiling? In a small room like this the answer is probably both. At some point I may have all surfaces covered and will need to build some reflection back in for the higher frequencies.
Old 1 week ago
  #4
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Jens Eklund's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastNashRocker View Post
Thanks Jens.. it sounds like you've both diagnosed the issue at my listening position and have given me a way to literally treat this.

If I can add 5 additional inches of absorption to the back wall, that could theoretically solve my problem.. and thus help me hear more clearly into the lowest octave.

About half of my ceiling is untreated, is it preferable to add absorption to the rear wall vs the ceiling? In a small room like this the answer is probably both. At some point I may have all surfaces covered and will need to build some reflection back in for the higher frequencies.
I have not diagnosed your issue. To be able to do that, you would need a lot more info and measurements. I just gave you some insight regarding the efficiency of your current treatment in relation to your first theoretical modal issue. Check out this post (and the links in it):

Advice Wanted: Best Option(s) for Additional Bass-Trapping

You need to figure out the cause of your issues and treat the relevant surfaces with something useful in the range of interest.
Old 1 week ago
  #5
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akebrake's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by EastNashRocker View Post
...My room is 15ft deep, 12ft wide, and 10ft high. My REW measurements all look pretty good.. but I'd just like the lowest octave to sound a little more clear/natural where I sit.
Hi,

Is this a new room or the same one (with pics and mdats)
discussed in the june 11 thread?

Help Needed With Room Null
Old 1 week ago
  #6
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EastNashRocker's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by akebrake View Post
Hi,

Is this a new room or the same one (with pics and mdats)
discussed in the june 11 thread?

Help Needed With Room Null
Akebrake, yes this is the same room from the pics and mdats. Thanks for any insights!
Old 1 week ago
  #7
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EastNashRocker's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jens Eklund View Post
I have not diagnosed your issue. To be able to do that, you would need a lot more info and measurements. I just gave you some insight regarding the efficiency of your current treatment in relation to your first theoretical modal issue. Check out this post (and the links in it):

Advice Wanted: Best Option(s) for Additional Bass-Trapping

You need to figure out the cause of your issues and treat the relevant surfaces with something useful in the range of interest.
Jen.. that link is excellent, I always appreciate your posts! You've inspired me to rethink the bass traps in my room. Here's my idea/question..

In your first post you mentioned an option about adding more depth to my rear wall as one way to help improve the low end. What I've read is that OC 703 reflects bass with more than 4-6 inches and that roxul safe n sound starts to be less effective with more than 10 inches. Since I have 10" of safe n sound I could add 5" of R-19. Would it be best to have it in front of or behind the safe n sound?

Part of my side walls are bare.. I could add 15" of R-19 or some combo of 703 and safe n sound.

I'm curious about how to get to a good depth (15+ inches) effectively/efficiently because I'm the dumb dumb in the past that has tried to use 12+ inches of 703 only to find out that's not as effective as I'd hoped
Old 1 day ago
  #8
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EastNashRocker's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jens Eklund View Post
I have not diagnosed your issue. To be able to do that, you would need a lot more info and measurements. I just gave you some insight regarding the efficiency of your current treatment in relation to your first theoretical modal issue. Check out this post (and the links in it):

Advice Wanted: Best Option(s) for Additional Bass-Trapping

You need to figure out the cause of your issues and treat the relevant surfaces with something useful in the range of interest.
Some major success to report.. I tried an experiment that I'd been thinking about for a while. Jens your comments really encouraged me to go for more depth. I put R-19 into cardboard boxes. Yep, 15 boxes full. Each box is 18"x18"x24"

I placed these on the back wall. I moved much of the existing back wall treatment to add depth to other parts of the room. The back wall is still 100% covered, just with greater depth than before.

To be fair, I still need to frame it all in white canvas to match the rest of the room.. so it ain't pretty yet but the improvement at the listening area was more than I anticipated (mind you that I'm used to long DIY projects that yield little improvement to the frequency response, decay time, etc.)

I enjoy Beck's Sea Change for referencing and the low end stands up in a more soft/pillowy way now. When I sweep from 100hz down to 20hz it's surprisingly balanced and satisfying considering the size of this room. My listening area and the back of the room are much more comprable now.

R-19 + Large Cardboard Boxes.... why didn't I try this years ago! It's super affordable, effective, easy to put together, and yes, ugly as hell until I fix that
Old 16 hours ago
  #9
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Jens Eklund's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastNashRocker View Post
Some major success to report.. I tried an experiment that I'd been thinking about for a while. Jens your comments really encouraged me to go for more depth.
Glad to hear
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