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Rod Gervais door assembly question
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1
Here for the gear
Rod Gervais door assembly question

Hi all,
I'm in the process of designing and (yes) already building my new studio complex.
One of my go to books is Rod Gervais Build it like the pro's, read it back and forth X-times!
Meanwhile... I do have a fairly detailed question, and hope someone can help me out here.

In the second release, diagrams 5.6 and 5.7 show his design for studio door assemblies. In this diagram (I'm going for the double door assembly, diagram 5.7), the 3/4" stock wood jam is connected to both isolated wall assemblies. The wood is isolated from both wall constructions by compressed rockwool/backer rod/ acoustic caulk.

My questions are specifically:
- should I worry about flanking transmission with this construction, from one wall to the next? The text on the previous page suggests not to worry about this, but I ask anyway as a check with those with more (practical) experience.
- what is the best way to fix the stock wood to the wall construction? Simply screw it? Or use some form of rubber isolated screws to lessen constructional transmission?

Much appreciate any insights, suggestions etc!

Many thanks
Kees
Old 2 weeks ago
  #2
Lives for gear
I don't have the book here with me, but I assume you are talking about the diagram where the one jamb is extending across both leaves?

I never could understand why you would do it that way- better to just cut 2 jambs that are ~1/2" apart. The only advantage I can see is that in a communicating door situation, you will have one door where you can shim it from both sides, and the when the 2nd one goes in you can only shim it from the room side.

This does make it super difficult to get the jambs fully flush...especially when your RO's are in 2 separate frames and are likely not fully flush either (mine weren't). What happened with mine was the jamb on the 2nd frame to go up is recessed about 1/4" further then the one that went in first. If you are putting the full jamb and stops up in pieces though you can probably just keep taking them off and finagle a way to flush them up.

But IMO that isn't that big of a deal. I painted my jambs black at the communicating doors and you have to really be looking for things to nitpick to see that the jambs aren't fully flush with each other- that said I'll probably have enough leftover track and fabric so I'll probably use it there.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #3
Here for the gear
Hi Ryan,
thanks for your answer, and that explains a lot to me! I also was wondering how this fit in to the whole picture..

Aesthetically yes, fully flush would be nice, but in the end I guess that comes second place to functionality.
I'll stick with a similar system as you used in that case.

Thanks again for the info and help!

I was just scanning through your build, kudos! Very nice indeed. Hope you dont get too much suffering from the city council/ inspectors.

And while I was scanning I noticed your ventilation system. I am in the process of getting this sorted out, but the first couple of tenders I had were ridiculous. In excess of 30k Euro's. This would amount to almost 50% increase in my budget.

I will post a second question regarding ventilation, if you have time to look at that, much appreciated!

Best
Kees
Old 2 weeks ago
  #4
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by HamburgerFactory View Post
And while I was scanning I noticed your ventilation system. I am in the process of getting this sorted out, but the first couple of tenders I had were ridiculous. In excess of 30k Euro's. This would amount to almost 50% increase in my budget.

I will post a second question regarding ventilation, if you have time to look at that, much appreciated!

Best
Kees
Ouch! 30k for all the HVAC or ventilation only? How big is the space?

I found these units which transfer air temp and moisture, don't require condensate pump, and are reasonably priced over here-

https://www.acwholesalers.com/Soler-...iABEgLsovD_BwE

The biggest advantage with them the manual it says that as you damp down the airflow, and slow CFM, the efficiency goes up and the fans they use have no issues. I figure we have high static pressure in our applications with the duct silencers, also without revit or something it's hard to know exactly how much. I called the company and they said they don't see any problems with slowing it even below 50cfm. Some other companies I called aren't so sure about that...Panasonic does make the units that have fan speed adjustability, but the price is about double.

So working in reverse if I just upsized the ERV, and use inline (I'm using iris type) dampers, then the stock units will be over-ventilating the rooms and we can damp them back down. But also the extra CFM capacity means we can positively balance the rooms, which as I understand also helps increase isolation.

I actually have a mechanical engineer, but it was going to cost a lot to get them to do it in full detail...After all the over inspecting with the drywall, the city doesn't seem to concerned about ventilation- which is bizarre. But I plan to tune the dampers with a CO2 meter and a bunch of people doing jumping jacks etc. The two units work now and they push a good amount of air into the rooms...we were staining the doors and it sucked the smell right out.

Not sure if any of that helps, but I figured I would forward what I found
Old 2 weeks ago
  #5
Here for the gear
That was for the ventilation only... another 13k for the AC

The space is quite large:
- live room of ca. 55m2 and 4,5m high
- iso booth of ca. 8m2 and 2,3m high
- control room of ca. 24m2 and 2,8m high
- 3 small writing rooms each around 10m2 and 2,2m high, which I will be letting out to cover a part of my monthly costs.
So yes, quite some volume, although on average there won't be more than say 10 people max in the rooms. Occasionally up to 20 when we have small do's and workshops, or a larger group recording in one go.

Here in Holland the building code specifies a minimum ca. 25m3 per hour per person in a room for normal activities, and ca. 35m3/h for more activities which require more exertion, with a max. of ca. 45m3/h. So that would amount to a minimum of some 350 - 400 m3/ hour, with occasionally double that. For safeties sake I want a system that can easily handle this peak without sacrifice on sound level. But almost 30k I think can buy me something HUGE...

I took a look at the S&P ERV you mentioned. And then did also a quick price comparison... wow. I wish I lived in the US! Looks like prices are about half of what we pay for a similar system here in the Netherlands. After a few calls, I understand that margins for ventilation systems are pretty healthy here, between 30 - 40%. So that explains part of the costs.

Today I contacted another HVAC designer who seems to come well recommended. See what he comes up with, fingers crossed.

Thanks again!
Best
Kees
Old 2 weeks ago
  #6
Lives for gear
Sure-

My space is pretty similar in overall volume, in 5 rooms. 650sf big room with 13.5' ceilings, 2 230sf control rooms with 10.5' ceilings, 2 booth/rooms both 250sf with 12' ceilings...

We used 3 of those S&P 130CFM...we're at 1mile above sea level so we gain an extra ~12%.

The code looks pretty similar here 10-15CFM of constant fresh air from a ventilator depending on how rigourous the activity is. My system is significantly overspecced, but you will have a lot of static pressure in your duct silencers and any long soffits of flex duct etc. So there is a drop in what is actually delivered. I've read ALOT on the subject and most experts agree that code is requiring overventilation. Continuous ventilators are relatively new and lot of the numbers are apparently based more off of derivations of air changes per hour, and less on actual tests with CO2 levels. That's why I chose inline dampers (less noise also), so that way I can damp the system down based on actual CO2 readings...

One thing you may look into is sourcing the ventilators yourself, mounting them , build the duct silencers yourself and contract someone only to duct to and from the rooms. Contractors will charge a lot when they think there is risk for them with things they aren't familiar with...
Old 2 weeks ago
  #7
Here for the gear
Hi Ryan,
many thanks again!
I greatly appreciate the time your taking to reply to my messages, absolutely fantastic! Especially considering your own schedule ;-)

Yes, I am coming to the conclusion that I spent many hours on the design of my place in relation to sound isolation and acoustics, but too little on the ventilation side. My bad... I will definitely be looking in to putting everything up myself, as you suggested.

Will let you know how things proceed!

Cheers
Kees
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