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Another 'cuboid room' thread
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1
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Another 'cuboid room' thread

Hi guys, I've recently moved house, and as such I have moved my studio setup.

I'm in a cube room at the moment. I know that these kinds of rooms are absolutely terrible for mixing, but I don't have much of a choice. basically every room in the house is close to a cube and I don't have many options.

To make matters worse, this room is also my bedroom, so I need space for a bed and chester drawers.

I know there have been plenty of threads like this before, and I've gone lurking quite a bit, but can't find a thread that fits my exact situation.

I am renting, and as you all know, it's almost impossible to set up more than light acoustic foam if I can't nail or screw into my walls.

So far I have only set up some basic bass traps in the corners, and some absorption foam at the reflection points of my room.

This has helped with unwanted reverberations, but my biggest problem is currently that the bass response in this room is beyond awful. there is a huge volume drop on all frequencies below somewhere around 300hz, the bass/low mids in this room may as well not be present at all. It seriously sounds like somebody has put a low shelf eq on my speakers and dropped it by 15 - 20db. Horrible.

I have one saving grace, however. At the opposite end of the room to my studio desk, there is an old fireplace that has been filled in and decommissioned. This gives me a small ledge which I can put a heavy piece of acoustic treatment on.

My current idea is to build a skyline diffuser and place it on top of this ledge. I can use the ledge to fully support the weight of the diffuser, and I can just attach some command strips to the top of the diffuser to keep it from toppling off the ledge.


The dimensions of my room are 360x390x270. I have the desk placed along the short wall of the room. My main question is, do you guys think I am going about this the right way? If I have one spot in my room, directly opposite my speakers, where I can put a large, heavy piece of sound treatment, is a skyline diffuser the right way to go?
Bass frequencies in this room are absolutely dead and it's bumming me out.

What would be my best option to get back a bit of low end?

I am fully aware that my response in this room will never be perfect, but damn, I would kill to just get a tiny bit of that low end back.

The length of the ledge is 140cm, and the depth is around 24cm, so I can place a pretty hefty piece of gear on top of it.


Please let me know if I have left out important information.


Thank you so much <3
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2
Gear Addict
 

To handle your acoustics you need absorption, not foam but real absorption and you definitely don't need a piece of decorative bull**** like a skyline.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bert stoltenborg View Post
To handle your acoustics you need absorption, not foam but real absorption and you definitely don't need a piece of decorative bull**** like a skyline.
Okay, sure. I'm listening.

My main reason for thinking of a skyline diffuser is that they seem fairly cheap and easy (albeit time consuming) to make.

I'm not married to the idea


As stated, I am using foam because I'm in a rented property, I'd love to hang a bunch of huge acoustic absorbers, but I simply can't.

I read in some previous threads that if you have lots of foam put up, diffusion would be a better option that increasing absorption. What is your position on this?

I am by no means an expert, in fact, I am quite the opposite. I am just after your guys advice.


what would you suggest I do with the limitations that I have?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #4
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If you built something that resembles a garden pagoda in your room, that would give you a frame on which you can hang all sorts of acoustic treatment without having to drill into your landlord's walls or ceiling. That way you are not limited to a fireplace ledge; you would be limited only by your imagination. And you could take it all with you when you relocate.
Attached Thumbnails
Another 'cuboid room' thread-pergoda.jpg  
Old 4 weeks ago
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
If you built something that resembles a garden pagoda in your room, that would give you a frame on which you can hang all sorts of acoustic treatment without having to drill into your landlord's walls or ceiling. That way you are not limited to a fireplace ledge; you would be limited only by your imagination. And you could take it all with you when you relocate.
Aw shucks, I completely forgot to mention that this room is also my bedroom.

Pretty important piece of info to leave out.

I have edited my original post accordingly.

That is a pretty clever idea though, I can't believe I'd not thought of it in my prior houses where I had a dedicated studio room.

Do you know anybody who has put this into practice? I struggle to comprehend the logistics of trying to build a pagoda the size of your room, and building it inside that room!


This does get me thinking though, could I lean acoustic treatment against any of my walls? would that help anything?

From what I've read online (including past posts on these forums) the most important part of wall to get treated in a cube room, is the wall that your monitors are facing.

This is the wall that I might actually be able to put treatment against, this is where the ledge is.

What would be the most effective type of treatment for me to use here?

After figuring this out, I might start trying to figure out solutions for the rest of my room.


I hope I'm asking the right questions.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #6
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Would it help if I posted photos of my room?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trusko View Post
Would it help if I posted photos of my room?
Yes.

You can lean treatment agains the wall, make it as frames filled with mineral wool, clad with cloth and cascade 'm (so you can take it with you when you move), you can put the treatment of the ceiling on top of the casvaded frames.... the possibilities are mind boggling
Old 4 weeks ago
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bert stoltenborg View Post
Yes.

You can lean treatment agains the wall, make it as frames filled with mineral wool, clad with cloth and cascade 'm (so you can take it with you when you move), you can put the treatment of the ceiling on top of the casvaded frames.... the possibilities are mind boggling
Do I make the frames out of 2x4's?

Are there any good guides online to making things like this?

What do you mean by "cascade them."


Thank you so much for your help
Old 4 weeks ago
  #9
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Hi guys, I hope this works, I seem to be having a bit of trouble attaching images :\

Sorry about the narrow field of view and bad quality, my phone is beyond terrible.


EDIT: Doesn't look like it worked :( Here are some links instead

https://drive.google.com/open?id=11B...ISlY8m58MCEnrJ

https://drive.google.com/open?id=114...6u8GYeGF7tQzaU

https://drive.google.com/open?id=10z...NSiE1KIVhCLKR5

https://drive.google.com/open?id=10j...QMZIoxc6EJ0XN4
Old 4 weeks ago
  #10
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trusko View Post
Do I make the frames out of 2x4's?

Are there any good guides online to making things like this?

What do you mean by "cascade them."


Thank you so much for your help
Pile ´m up.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #11
Just get IKEA frames and fill them up with rockwool (with something to contain it of course). Or something like Caruso Isobond which is polyester.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bert stoltenborg View Post
Pile ´m up.
Alright

Could this same effect be achieved by making a thicker panel?


What would you call something like this?


I just want to know so that I can look up a guide on how to make one of these.


I know I already asked, but do you know what I should make the frame out of?


And what material should I use to hold all of this mineral wool and cloth in the frame?


Just to confirm, is absorption definitely the strategy I should go for here?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johannburkard View Post
Just get IKEA frames and fill them up with rockwool (with something to contain it of course). Or something like Caruso Isobond which is polyester.
Ikea frames, as in the ones for pictures/posters?


Something like this?

https://www.ikea.com/au/en/catalog/products/10297963/
Old 4 weeks ago
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trusko View Post
Ikea frames, as in the ones for pictures/posters?
Sorry, shelves. Like this one: https://www.ikea.com/de/de/p/kallax-...wlas-90324509/
Old 4 weeks ago
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johannburkard View Post
Thanks

In terms of placement, would that be fine sitting on the floor?

If I bought a shelf like that, would I be fine to insert ONLY the horizontal slats? Do I need the shelf to be in small squares for any reason? or can I do what I want with the slats so long as I can fill it with absorption material?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trusko View Post
In terms of placement, would that be fine sitting on the floor?
There will probably be subtle differences but just adding a lot of treatment to the room will make a difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trusko View Post
If I bought a shelf like that, would I be fine to insert ONLY the horizontal slats?
I don't see why not. The slats don't do anything for you (acoustically) in the shelf.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johannburkard View Post
There will probably be subtle differences but just adding a lot of treatment to the room will make a difference.

Do you mean that just adding the single 150x150 shelf will only make a subtle difference?

As can be seen in my pictures, I don't have an awful lot of room for treatment.

I think that if I move my bed away from the wall, I could definitely get two of those shelves on the back wall though, and maybe one or two narrow column type ones on my side walls
Old 4 weeks ago
  #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trusko View Post
Do you mean that just adding the single 150x150 shelf will only make a subtle difference?
That depends on the depth you fill it with and what you expect.

I can tell you that two GIK Monster Bass Traps (that's a bit less surface area than that shelf) alone in your room wouldn't be a sensational change.

Maybe you should be looking at tuneable bass traps, too? GIK makes one that's tuned to 40 Hz which is quite close to your room modes.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johannburkard View Post
That depends on the depth you fill it with and what you expect.

I can tell you that two GIK Monster Bass Traps (that's a bit less surface area than that shelf) alone in your room wouldn't be a sensational change.

Maybe you should be looking at tuneable bass traps, too? GIK makes one that's tuned to 40 Hz which is quite close to your room modes.
Thank you so much for these responses, I really appreciate it.

The depth would be 39cm, I would fill the entire depth of it.

My expectation really is just to get any noticeable amount of volume and clarity back to my low end. Doesn't have to be drastic. I don't have any expectation for my room to sound like a pro studio.


Will these cabinets do anything for my low end? or should I be thinking more about bass traps?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #20
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trusko View Post
Okay, sure. I'm listening.

My main reason for thinking of a skyline diffuser is that they seem fairly cheap and easy (albeit time consuming) to make.

I'm not married to the idea


As stated, I am using foam because I'm in a rented property, I'd love to hang a bunch of huge acoustic absorbers, but I simply can't.

I read in some previous threads that if you have lots of foam put up, diffusion would be a better option that increasing absorption. What is your position on this?

I am by no means an expert, in fact, I am quite the opposite. I am just after your guys advice.


what would you suggest I do with the limitations that I have?
Diffusers don't work in small rooms, you won't get much benefit from it TBH
Old 3 weeks ago
  #21
Gear Head
 
Mark Alpine's Avatar
I feel your pain... I'm situated in a less than perfect room myself but I tend to get that treated soon (in the planning phase - will open up a new thread later to report back on the progress).

Since your room is also your bedroom, have you considered making the bed retractable/tiltable? Pick an insulation material which does not affect your health (like 3000 rayls/m Hemp insulation slabs) and mount it under the bed. Once you don't use it you can fold it up and it'll become a HUGE bass trap... That's at least one option I would consider if I where you.

Also triangular (each angle 60 degrees, each side 1m or so) DIY traps mounted in the four upper corners of your room is a good solution since they don't take a way any of your usable floor space.

/Cheers, Mark
Old 3 weeks ago
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Alpine View Post
I feel your pain... I'm situated in a less than perfect room myself but I tend to get that treated soon (in the planning phase - will open up a new thread later to report back on the progress).

Since your room is also your bedroom, have you considered making the bed retractable/tiltable? Pick an insulation material which does not affect your health (like 3000 rayls/m Hemp insulation slabs) and mount it under the bed. Once you don't use it you can fold it up and it'll become a HUGE bass trap... That's at least one option I would consider if I where you.

Also triangular (each angle 60 degrees, each side 1m or so) DIY traps mounted in the four upper corners of your room is a good solution since they don't take a way any of your usable floor space.

/Cheers, Mark
Hi Mark

Those are both great ideas, but I am currently renting, and as such, I am unable to make any permanent fixtures in the room.

All acoustic treatment I do has to be either able to rest on the floor, or be light enough to stick onto the walls with command strips.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #23
Gear Head
 
Mark Alpine's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trusko View Post
Hi Mark

Those are both great ideas, but I am currently renting, and as such, I am unable to make any permanent fixtures in the room.

All acoustic treatment I do has to be either able to rest on the floor, or be light enough to stick onto the walls with command strips.
I'm pretty sure you can get the bed to stand up without mounting a fixture to the walls. Maybe you give the construction some thought. Not that easy, but I think the end result will be quite effective.

The corner/ceiling traps can be mounted using a hook attached to the point where the corners meet the ceiling. Attach wires to the three corners of the trap and guide them through the hook. To get a snug fit, apply a weight (X kg) to the end of each wire - that will hold the trap up and in place. The holes (x4) can be filled with acrylic paste once you decide to move out. I'm pretty sure no one will ever notice...

Of course you can always buy (if cost is of little concern) of the shelf bass traps (GIK, RealTraps, etc.). Stay away from foam (Caruso Iso Bond, Basotect, ...), since they are not very effective for low frequency absorption (I guess the main problem in your room) and have a in general low usefulness/cost ratio.

The corner traps, as suggested above, leaning against the walls (placed in the corners) are excellent options too if you can find the space for them.

Mark
Old 3 weeks ago
  #24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trusko View Post
Will these cabinets do anything for my low end? or should I be thinking more about bass traps?
The shelves filled are a bass trap. A bass trap the same depth may be more effective in corners but that's something to test.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Alpine View Post
I'm pretty sure you can get the bed to stand up without mounting a fixture to the walls. Maybe you give the construction some thought. Not that easy, but I think the end result will be quite effective.


Mark
This is something that I might have to speak to a carpenter about. A good idea definitely, but will take much more time and planning than most suggestions in this thread. Also more costly, I don't currently have enough time and money to chase an endeavour like this, but is definitely something I will think about in the future!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Alpine View Post
The corner/ceiling traps can be mounted using a hook attached to the point where the corners meet the ceiling. Attach wires to the three corners of the trap and guide them through the hook. To get a snug fit, apply a weight (X kg) to the end of each wire - that will hold the trap up and in place. The holes (x4) can be filled with acrylic paste once you decide to move out. I'm pretty sure no one will ever notice...

Mark
If you'd ever rented a house in Australia, I doubt you would be saying that

Rental rights in Australia are incredibly poor, and far behind the rest of the developed world.

It is standard to have inspections here once every two months. If the property manager sees anything other than a poster on the wall, they will no doubt ask how it is hung.

Having a single hook in the wall is grounds for the landlord to take hundreds of dollars out of our bond, and can put us on a rental blacklist.

We are currently implementing laws (in Victoria) to negate this. Around June next year, tenants will be legally allowed to put nails/screws in the walls for the purpose of hangings, but that is a while off yet.

I may ask the agent if we can do this. If we're lucky, the landlord will let us do it, but our house was repainted and re-carpeted just before we moved in, so I suspect that he will not let us (if the house is due for a new paint job, you have an easier time doing things like this.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by johannburkard View Post
The shelves filled are a bass trap. A bass trap the same depth may be more effective in corners but that's something to test.
Aaah of course. Wisdom.

I am unfamiliar with the construction of acoustic treatment but am learning a lot from this thread, I previously thought that bass traps might be of a different build than regular absorption.

So I'm thinking that instead of buying one unit like this:
https://www.bunnings.com.au/flexi-st...t-oak_p0045679


I will buy two units like this:
https://www.bunnings.com.au/flexi-st...white_p2583386

That way, I have two columns that I can move around the room as I please to test how they affect my frequency response.

Am I on the right track?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #26
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Starlight's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trusko View Post
If you'd ever rented a house in Australia, I doubt you would be saying that

Rental rights in Australia are incredibly poor, and far behind the rest of the developed world.
Help us to help you: if you could put Australia in the location field in your profile that would save us having to guess where in the world you might be in future topics. Thanks.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trusko View Post
Am I on the right track
Yes.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
Help us to help you: if you could put Australia in the location field in your profile that would save us having to guess where in the world you might be in future topics. Thanks.
Thanks! will do
Old 3 weeks ago
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johannburkard View Post
Yes.
One more question, I only just noticed that in your original post, you said to fill the frame with rockwool, "with something to contain it of course."


What did you mean by that containing part? Do you just mean to close off each side of the frame so that the wood doesn't fall out?

Does rockwool come in bricks? or in fluff, like regular wool?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trusko View Post
What did you mean by that containing part? Do you just mean to close off each side of the frame so that the wood doesn't fall out?
No, I meant to contain the rockwool so the fibers don't get in the air. Apparently not toxic but itchy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trusko View Post
Does rockwool come in bricks? or in fluff, like regular wool?
Rolls or batts.
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