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Another 'cuboid room' thread
Old 27th September 2019
  #61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundman2020 View Post
I don't understand why someone would need to add 50% to the depth of a panel to install it. When I build 8" thick panels, they are 8" thick, or maybe 8 1/2 at most.

I'm not sure which post you are referring to: maybe you could provide a link? If you are referring to what I said about superchunks, then yes, they do run 24" (or more) out from the corners, but no, they do not take off 24" from the room dimensions. If you look at the photos I posted, you should be able to figure out why that is. The room remains the exact same length and width, with no change the the overall dimensions. It's only the corners of the room that are filled, in diagonal, and even then it is less than 24" at the deepest point (directly in the corner). Since the corners of a room are very often empty anyway, then installing Superchunks doesn't take up much space at all. And since all room modes always terminate in corners, placing suitable treatment in the corners gets you maximum effectiveness in minimum space, since it can deal with multiple modes at once, in multiple directions: Each corner can deal with all axials in two of the three planes, all tangentials that involve those two surfaces, and all obliques. That's why superchunks are so popular: very simple to build, low-cost, does not take up much space, very effective, and guaranteed to damp the highest possible number of modes in the least possible space.

Regarding trying to mix on headphones: we already went over that and why it doesn't work very well, a few posts back: Another 'cuboid room' thread

Personally, I would always choose mixing on good speakers in a reasonably decent room, over attempting to do it on headphones, if I was trying to turn out the best mix possible that also translates well.


- Stuart -
Useable dimensions.

If a corner trap sticks out 2 feet, that's two feet where you can't slide a couch or a rack.

I would prefer to mix on monitors in a good room. I just don't believe it's possible to get a bedroom sized room to where I consider "good" without either more cost or depth than the OP is willing to spend.

Also, he specified "bedroom" which means there's certain furniture that's going to be present an limit how much space there is to add treatments to the room.

I'd bet that he'll get far better results making his low end decision on headphones and balances on some very close near fields.
Old 27th September 2019
  #62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trusko View Post
I'm not really bothered by taking a foot off of the room dimensions.

I know I will never get this room to sound perfect, I just want it to sound tolerable.

I want to be able to play music on the speakers just for relaxation purposes. It's difficult to get inspired when I hate the sound of my speakers, and rarely play music as a result.

I'm definitely going to invest in a pair of studio headphones regardless of the outcome of my acoustic treatment.



I'd love to get a module which runs along the top wall, but I don't think that is doable within my rental property :( Let me know if you have any ideas regarding this.



Since I'm in my bedroom, and these superchunks will be right next to my bed, I think I'll cover them just to be absolutely sure. They may get nudged or bumped occasionally


I'm going to start building the frames tonight at work out of spare 2x4's I'll keep you updated with the results.

Thank you so much.
It's not a foot off of the room dimensions, it's a foot off of each side.

Or with the corner traps, 2 feet, meaning when it comes to placing furniture along the wall, you'll lose 4 feet. You'd turn a 10x12 room to 6x8.


What you'll find is that to get things better than headphones in terms of frequenquncy response, you're going to have to spend more than a couple of hundred dollars and give up a lot of space.



If you moved the speakers into a larger room, like 20 x 20 or even bigger, that alone would do more than the treatments, and the same budget spent on treatments for that room would go even further.


When your room is smaller than a certain size, I think it's better to put the vast majority of your budget into headphones and headphone amps etc since you have a significant results cap imposed by the small room.
Old 27th September 2019
  #63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundman2020 View Post
Actually, I think you'll find that most mix engineers, producers, acousticians, and musicians would not agree with that: you cannot mix on headphones the same way you can mix on speakers, because of psycho-acoustics. With headphones, each ear hears only one speaker, 100% direct sound, and hears nothing from the other speaker, or the low-level ambiance of the room. So there is no ability to localize sound the same way that people localize it in normal rooms. In other words, with headphones the music sound like it is all inside your head, between your ears: the sound stage only extends from ear to ear, since that's the full width of the stereo image. With speakers, the sound is "around" you: your left ear hears some of the sound from the right speaker, and vice versa, so your brain has a sensation of the sound being outside your head, not inside it: the stereo image and sound stage cover the full width of the distance between the speakers and possibly more too, so there is a sense of detail, direction, and "air" that it is physically impossible to experience on headphones.

OK, let me temper that with a little more explanation to clarify, before the purists climb in and say "that's wrong! yu can make it sound bigger!". With headphones, yes, it is possible to SIMULATE an experience where the sound seems to be coming from outside your head, by carefully manipulating the signals sent to each ear, to add the subtle variations in frequency, phase, lelve, and timing that your brain uses to determine space.... but you can't mix like that! That's the point I'm making: your ears must hear the actual, real direct sound from the speakers, plus a little of the room ambience, to provide the pleasant, neutral, natural, clean, uncolored sound that you need to mix and master. You can fake some of the missing information to fool your brain electronically, but if you try to mix like that, you will fail and your mixes will not translate, because anyone listening on typical speakers in a typical acoustic space (house, car, office, shop, club, church, etc.) would say that it just sounds weird...

If it was possible to mix wonderfully on cans, I think the major studios, producers, mix engineers, musicians, mastering engineers, song writers, and others would have figured it out by now, and they would not bother spending big money making carefully designed and tuned control rooms.

- Stuart -

You're imposing hyperbole on his words.

"Mixing on headphones" doesn't not mean mixing only on headphones, just like "mixing on monitors" doesn't mean mixing on only one pair of monitors.


You do the things that bad room acoustics interfere with on the headphones and the things that headphones interfere with on near fields, as close as possible, to minimize the effects of the room.
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