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Mrharris 30th August 2019 11:15 AM

Stewart + nms > Synthpark.


Man Synthpark if you would just open your eyes, your eyes and most of all your heart, you would see that there is a genuine sense of wanting to help fellow enthusiasts and instead of you even attempting to resemble a somewhat decent human being, you just refute all that is useful, hard to find, and above all time consuming type information that so many enthusiasts and professionals spend hours at a time searching and researching to find the answers that are literally handed to you on a golden plate of genuine generosity.

Seriously man, if it wasn’t for the sole reason that you are responsible for epic mofos like Stuart or nms to share, and share in depth the info that they did, then you would have no good reason to share the same air as me because for the last 30 years of my life I’ve despised people like you. People who take advantage of kind hearted, loving, and supportive people who just hate upon anyone and everyone for the sole fact that they might not be the number one or smartest one or most sought after individual in the relative group, scene or situation. People like you ultimately is the reason why humanity itself will lose against itself because of the relentless hate and ignorance upon the fellow good man who is just trying to give you a helping hand.

Learn some respect for people who clearly outclass you on multiple levels. If you are incapable of doing that or incapable of comprehending that level of humility then for the sake of your own breath just shut the f up and accept you are incorrect, outplayed, and have lost the battle and the war. It would be greatly appreciated...

Synthpark 30th August 2019 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrharris (Post 14175292)
Stewart + nms > Synthpark.


Man Synthpark if you would just open your eyes, your eyes and most of all your heart, you would see that there is a genuine sense of wanting to help fellow enthusiasts and instead of you even attempting to resemble a somewhat decent human being, you just refute all that is useful, hard to find, and above all time consuming type information that so many enthusiasts and professionals spend hours at a time searching and researching to find the answers that are literally handed to you on a golden plate of genuine generosity.

Seriously man, if it wasn’t for the sole reason that you are responsible for epic mofos like Stuart or nms to share, and share in depth the info that they did, then you would have no good reason to share the same air as me because for the last 30 years of my life I’ve despised people like you. People who take advantage of kind hearted, loving, and supportive people who just hate upon anyone and everyone for the sole fact that they might not be the number one or smartest one or most sought after individual in the relative group, scene or situation. People like you ultimately is the reason why humanity itself will lose against itself because of the relentless hate and ignorance upon the fellow good man who is just trying to give you a helping hand.

Learn some respect for people who clearly outclass you on multiple levels. If you are incapable of doing that or incapable of comprehending that level of humility then for the sake of your own breath just shut the f up and accept you are incorrect, outplayed, and have lost the battle and the war. It would be greatly appreciated...

Another troll with his second post. Your polemic **** has nothing to do with any topic in the thread.
Did S. send you? Its alright, no problem! :)

nms 30th August 2019 12:11 PM

Let's rise above the personal attacks here guys. That's not what this forum is about.

Honestly, it's like I said before.. everyone has their beliefs based on their own experiences and things they've read. Most of us at one time or another has been sure of things which later turn out to be incorrect. It's just life! Aside from that is just the fact that internet forums can make for dysfunctional discussions at times where we end up interacting with each other in a way we really wouldn't if sat in a room together in real life. Always good to remember that and keep things in perspective!

Synthpark 30th August 2019 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nms (Post 14175349)
Let's rise above the personal attacks here guys.

Honestly, it's like I said before.. everyone has their beliefs based on their own experiences and things they've read. Most of us at one time or another has been sure of things which later turn out to be incorrect. It's just life! Aside from that is just the fact that internet forums can make for dysfunctional discussions at times where we end up interacting with each other in a way we really wouldn't if sat in a room together in real life. Always good to remember that and keep things in perspective!

Thats for sure, 100% agreed.

But look, you can claim that this method yields great sound etc. and then I walk into the room and listen to sound and either I say "great" or I find the sound rather flat, I don't know. And there is no way to prove something this way or the other on the internet.

Believe me or not but I have, due to 20 years ear training, a very good sense for good, crisp 3D, spectrally complete and even sound and usually can tell you within seconds whats wrong with the mix (if there is a flaw or weakness). And my solution gives me more or less that sound, so it cannot be that bad or even "incorrect". Maybe you are right and get good results with your approach, but its impossible to prove except to refer to "experience" or "customer satisfaction".

80 percent in acoustic design may actually deal with practical questions, nothing to do with actual acoustic theory, even whether some material is suitable without collecting dust (for example: Molton! its recommended, but others say, it will collect dust and in two years you may have to clean it), all that kind of stuff. And I can imagine that 80 percent of time, of the service offered, is focussed on hard physical work. I know a guy who does studios in Berlin, and he says he never read any book about acoustics, all is based on his beliefs and experience. Thats great. But regarding some specific questions, for example a slat absorber, he has a very simplified understanding of what wavelength will go through the absorber and what is reflected. So the word "experience" has to be taken with caution. No one has seen how a acoustic wave out of the speaker really propagates.

Once I had a phonce call with AFMG anf the guy said, that it is almost impossible to predict the sound propagation for bass in a small room without knowing the exact wall structure (material), so without measurement. But here in the forum I hear things like: send us your REW file, and I know what to do. Does this work, is it not a little overoptimistic? :) I know a well respected German acoustic company - they will always come to measure.

cheers

sage691 30th August 2019 01:26 PM

Synthpark = "Internet DIY Bedroom Warrior"

He thought he was smart enough to do a little research on the internet, look at a some photos of CRs and then go about designing a CR in his living room. He said to himself "That looks fairly easy, just hang up some insulation, a few panels here and there, some diffusers and I'll be good to go." He made a decision to cut out a designer from the very beginning, which is what 99.9% do (including myself years ago which was a BIG mistake that took me a long time to figure out and admit).

But then, after trying out the stuff he read online in his room, he realized that it fell short of his goals. Then he immediately started questioning the validity of the information, instead of considering for a moment that maybe he was too uneducated on the topic and had overlooked and left out some important steps. This is why he insists that placing his speakers against the front wall is subpar and smears the depth and imaging. When he tried those well established suggestions in his room it just sounded wrong to him (and likely measured poorly as well), so he started "improvising" which we all know in acoustics is a recipe for disaster because it is "non-intuitive" -- i.e. what you would think is logical is not when it comes to this science ! The photo he posted of his speaker arrangement says it all to clarify this point, yet he arrogantly insists that this is the best possible arrangement. It's like watching somebody shove a square peg into a round hole and insisting that not only will it work, but it is the best possible approach. :facepalm:

IMO that is "Synthpark" in a nutshell. The reason I know this is because I was once like him, stubborn and arrogant and believing I could cut out the need for a designer and thru improvising arrive at a "good enough" result and then invest the money saved in swanky, shiny, slutty GEAR !! Unfortunately this is all-too-common and that is why you see so many people trolling around here (and elsewhere) always looking for free advice. peachh

Synthpark 30th August 2019 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sage691 (Post 14175436)
IMO that is "Synthpark" in a nutshell. The reason I know this is because I was once like him, stubborn and arrogant and believing I could cut out the need for a designer and thru improvising arrive at a "good enough" result and then invest the money saved in swanky, shiny, slutty GEAR !! Unfortunately this is all-too-common and that is why you see so many people trolling around here (and elsewhere) always looking for free advice. peachh

Very good!

But missing some sentences in the middle part: The current room was actually his forth room. Although he was far from a studio designer he had gained some experience in the past, especially how his speakers (and he had owned quite a few) had sounded in various locations, including completely untreated rooms, as well as treated, at a front wall, or placed more into the room. Also experience with positioning of his packed rockwool units within a room and their effect. Through the years he had refined his intuition how sound has to sound, and how the stereo image has to sound, based on well known reference songs. Even more, he could mix 90% on headphones and find mistakes in monitor mixes using headphones, which also help to identify problems of the listening environment. The forth room was partly designed using first reflection point mobile absorbers built years before and used in the previous room (side walls, front wall, ceiling) and commercial diffusors. The new room was multi-purpose (mixing, recording) and very specifically designed for his purpose, using speakers in two axes, on the short and long axis, what no professional studio designer would ever have suggested, but playing a keyboard standing at the side wall aks for sound coming directly ahead, not from the mains hitting just the left or right ear. Also, this way he has another representation of bass spectrum to avoid bass problems in the mix caused by dips in the spectrum. So he had followed a very unusual concept, but which serves his personal needs better than most studio designers could have predicted.

cheers

sage691 30th August 2019 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synthpark (Post 14175450)
Very good!

But missing some sentences in the middle part: The current room was actually his forth room. Although he was far from a studio designer he had gained some experience in the past, especially how his speakers (and he had owned quite a few) had sounded in various locations, including completely untreated rooms, as well as treated, at a front wall, or placed more into the room. Also experience with positioning of his packed rockwool units within a room and their effect. Through the years he had refined his intuition how sound has to sound, and how the stereo image has to sound, based on well known reference songs. Even more, he could mix 90% on headphones and find mistakes in monitor mixes using headphones, which also help to identify problems of the listening environment. The forth room was partly designed using first reflection point mobile absorbers built years before and used in the previous room (side walls, front wall, ceiling) and commercial diffusors. The new room was multi-purpose (mixing, recording) and very specifically designed for his purpose, using speakers in two axes, on the short and long axis, what no professional studio designer would ever have suggested, but playing a keyboard standing at the side wall aks for sound coming directly ahead, not from the mains hitting just the left or right ear. Also, this way he has another representation of bass spectrum to avoid bass problems in the mix caused by dips in the spectrum. So he had followed a very unusual concept, but which serves his personal needs better than most studio designers could have predicted.

cheers

I hear ya man ! I have been the KING of unorthodox methods during the recording and production process and have had many an engineer look at me like I was crazy -- until they heard the end result. ;)

But with CRs we are talking making final mixes here that (hopefully) compete with the best of commercial releases from past to present. If that is one's goal, then IMO you want a pro level CR of the highest standards you can afford.

Bottom line is that if you can get mixes that translate well in your room, then you could have your speakers mounted in the ceiling aiming straight down and it wouldn't matter one way or the other. It all depends on what your standards are in this game. peachh

Northward 30th August 2019 02:13 PM

Mod hat on: I think this conversation has ran its course. Thread closed before it further deteriorates.

If someone would like to make a constructive, technical post on the OT then PM and I'll reopen the thread.