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Confusion over material selection
Old 5th August 2019
  #1
Gear Nut
 

Confusion over material selection

Hey guys, this is the first time that I am making my own corner bass traps. (Prior to this point I had someone built them for me.)

Now my confusion is that, what is the difference between the following material?

Glasswool
Rockwool
Mineral wool
Fiberglass

Are they different or are they the same? Which is better?
What density and thickness is good for triangular corner bass traps that are filled from floor to ceiling?

Also, please tell me at what frequencies, each of these materials is the most effective at absorbing.

Thanks,

Tom
Old 5th August 2019
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by producerxtr View Post
Hey guys, this is the first time that I am making my own corner bass traps. (Prior to this point I had someone built them for me.)

Now my confusion is that, what is the difference between the following material?

Glasswool
Rockwool
Mineral wool
Fiberglass

Are they different or are they the same? Which is better?
What density and thickness is good for triangular corner bass traps that are filled from floor to ceiling?

Also, please tell me at what frequencies, each of these materials is the most effective at absorbing.

Thanks,

Tom
Glasswool is unknown to me
Rockwool is the name of a company that mkes mineral wool
Mineral wool is the generic term for inorganic insulation
Fiberglass is the trade mark of Owens Corning for their silicon based insulation

None of them provide data about the products.
Old 5th August 2019
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avare View Post
Glasswool is unknown to me
Rockwool is the name of a company that mkes mineral wool
Mineral wool is the generic term for inorganic insulation
Fiberglass is the trade mark of Owens Corning for their silicon based insulation

None of them provide data about the products.


Okay, but can you recommend one of them for corner bass traps? What thickness and density?
Old 5th August 2019
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by producerxtr View Post
Okay, but can you recommend one of them for corner bass traps? What thickness and density?
Is Fender or a Les Paul a better guitar?

If filling use "pink fluffy stuff." If using a gap use 4" of "Rockboard 40.?
Old 6th August 2019
  #5
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by avare View Post
Is Fender or a Les Paul a better guitar?

If filling use "pink fluffy stuff." If using a gap use 4" of "Rockboard 40.?

I have made triangular frames for all of my corners and now I want to fill them completely and cover them with a breathable fabric.
would you tell me what is the "pink fluffy stuff"? I'm not familiar with them
Old 6th August 2019
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by producerxtr View Post
I have made triangular frames for all of my corners and now I want to fill them completely and cover them with a breathable fabric.
would you tell me what is the "pink fluffy stuff"? I'm not familiar with them
The lightest (and usually cheapest) insulation sold in home renoation stores for use in walls
Old 6th August 2019
  #7
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Synthpark's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by producerxtr View Post
Hey guys, this is the first time that I am making my own corner bass traps. (Prior to this point I had someone built them for me.)

Now my confusion is that, what is the difference between the following material?

Glasswool
Rockwool
Mineral wool
Fiberglass

Are they different or are they the same? Which is better?
What density and thickness is good for triangular corner bass traps that are filled from floor to ceiling?

Also, please tell me at what frequencies, each of these materials is the most effective at absorbing.

Thanks,

Tom
You might want to read this thread

Common Gas Flow Resistivity numbers.

and apply data here to get an idea of absorbtion.

http://www.acousticmodelling.com/

Alternatively, get a 30 days free trial version of this

http://soundflow.afmg.eu/
Old 8th August 2019
  #8
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by avare View Post
The lightest (and usually cheapest) insulation sold in home renoation stores for use in walls
Unfortunately that material is not available to me. Now I have made corner trap frames that are triangular shaped. Pink fluffy stuff are not available at the moment. So I have to find a substitute. Can you give me a recommendation for this one? (budget is not an issue, I want maximum performance) Please keep in mind that I am filling the frames top to bottom.
Give me as much details as possible please. I'm a beginner in DIY stuff and I need guidance.
Old 8th August 2019
  #9
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The lightest material. It is hard to help without even knowing geographically where you are.
Old 8th August 2019
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avare View Post
The lightest material. It is hard to help without even knowing geographically where you are.
I am in Dubai, United Arab Emirates.
Thank you for your response but unfortunately your short answers are not helping me. I would appreciate more detailed answers.
You say the lightest material, okay? What density do you consider light?
What thickness?
So many parameters into account but you are not addressing them.
Old 8th August 2019
  #11
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On the web, you have acousticmodelling to simulate the performance of an absorber as a porous absorber.

The density is no directly use. The first parameter is the porosity. Divide the density by 2.5 to have a good approximation of the porosity.

The gas flow resistivity or air flow resistance are the same thing than the porosity.
Old 8th August 2019
  #12
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dinococcus View Post
On the web, you have acousticmodelling to simulate the performance of an absorber as a porous absorber.

The density is no directly use. The first parameter is the porosity. Divide the density by 2.5 to have a good approximation of the porosity.

The gas flow resistivity or air flow resistance are the same thing than the porosity.


I have three of these stacked on eachother so I could cover from floor to ceiling. Can you please provide the gas flow resistivity calculator link?
Also please tell me if you have any suggestions based on the frames that I have built.
Attached Thumbnails
Confusion over material selection-img_20190806_201626.jpg  
Old 8th August 2019
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by producerxtr View Post
I am in Dubai, United Arab Emirates.
Thank you for your response but unfortunately your short answers are not helping me at all. I would appreciate more detailed answers.
You say the lightest material, okay? What density do you consider light?
What thickness?
So many parameters in to account but you are not addressing them.
Your questions been so vague that they have been impossible to give answers to. You just asked 2 clear questions.

The thickness is not important because the material will be stacked to fill theabsorber.

Light density here means ~32 kg/m³ mineral wool and 24 kg/m³ glass wool.
Old 8th August 2019
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avare View Post
Your questions been so vague that they have been impossible to give answers to. You just asked 2 clear questions.

The thickness is not important because the material will be stacked to fill theabsorber.

Light density here means ~32 kg/m³ mineral wool and 24 kg/m³ glass wool.

Thank you for the response, sorry for the vague questions, this is my first time building my own traps

My assumption was that, a more dense material (heavier) would be better, but based on your response, I was wrong
Can you explain the reason behind it?
Also which one would you prefer between mineral wool and glass wool?
Old 8th August 2019
  #15
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The link.

http://www.acousticmodelling.com/porous.php

For the rest, i' m not in your room, we don't what is wrong.
Old 8th August 2019
  #16
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dinococcus View Post
The link.

http://www.acousticmodelling.com/porous.php

For the rest, i' m not in your room, we don't what is wrong.
I checked the link and I have a bit of issue in filling the numbers,

My corner traps are triangle shaped,

What thickness should I choose?
Does thickness mean depth in here? If so, the depth in middle is maximum and decreases as we go to the edges... Not sure about this


Is Air gap zero in my case?

Thanks

Attached is an image
Attached Thumbnails
Confusion over material selection-img_20190806_201626.jpg  
Old 8th August 2019
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by producerxtr View Post
Thank you for the response, sorry for the vague questions, this is my first time building my own traps

My assumption was that, a more dense material (heavier) would be better, but based on your response, I was wrong
Can you explain the reason behind it?
Also which one would you prefer between mineral wool and glass wool?
You are welcome.

Here are honest and relatively complete responses to your density question

Could someone help out interpreting material's gas flow properties

Q 4 Avare

I do not care more for one over the other. The acoustic values, price, and availability are deciding factors.

I forgot to mention it before, welcome from Dubai!
Old 8th August 2019
  #18
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by avare View Post
You are welcome.

Here are honest and relatively complete responses to your density question

Could someone help out interpreting material's gas flow properties

Q 4 Avare

I do not care more for one over the other. The acoustic values, price, and availability are deciding factors.

I forgot to mention it before, welcome from Dubai!

Thanks!

What are the acoustic values that I need to consider? And where can I find them?
Old 8th August 2019
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by producerxtr View Post
Thanks!

What are the acoustic values that I need to consider? And where can I find them?
Tell me you are joking. From even just glancing at the two linked threads GFR, which is often impossible to get; and absorption characteristics. We often use density as proxy for GFR.
Old 8th August 2019
  #20
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by avare View Post
Tell me you are joking. From even just glancing at the two linked threads GFR, which is often impossible to get; and absorption characteristics. We often use density as proxy for GFR.
I'm not joking, I'm a beginner in this field and I am just trying to learn stuff from you guys...
Your response gives me the impression that you are making fun of me
Old 8th August 2019
  #21
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Synthpark's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by producerxtr View Post
I checked the link and I have a bit of issue in filling the numbers,

My corner traps are triangle shaped,

What thickness should I choose?
Does thickness mean depth in here? If so, the depth in middle is maximum and decreases as we go to the edges... Not sure about this


Is Air gap zero in my case?

Thanks

Attached is an image
I gave you the link already in the 7th answer Anyways, you realized that the problem is that the calculator gives you only an idea of how it works, because for finite size triangle-shaped corner absorbers the effectiveness is somewhat different. In any case, taking rockwool material of 6000 Pa.s/m2 (Rockwool Sonorock) is what is usually used for such bass traps. For very thick absorbers Thermohanf may be an even better alternative, but is more costly, and I doubt you will be able to buy it in Dubai.
Old 8th August 2019
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by producerxtr View Post
FYI I'm not joking, I am just trying to learn stuff..
Your response makes me feel that you are making fun of me
I am trying to help you. The answer to your question was in the links I just sent you. You keep on asking what you should get. You have told repeatedly the lightest density material that you can get.
Old 8th August 2019
  #23
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthpark View Post
I gave you the link already in the 7th answer Anyways, you realized that the problem is that the calculator gives you only an idea of how it works, because for finite size triangle-shaped corner absorbers the effectiveness is somewhat different. In any case, taking rockwool material of 6000 Pa.s/m2 (Rockwool Sonorock) is what is usually used for such bass traps. For very thick absorbers Thermohanf may be an even better alternative, but is more costly, and I doubt you will be able to buy it in Dubai.

I apologize, I missed the link that you provided in the 7th answer, my bad.
Now I understand it more clearly and I appreciate your explanation.
Old 8th August 2019
  #24
Gear Nut
 

Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by avare View Post
I am trying to help you. The answer to your question was in the links I just sent you. You keep on asking what you should get. You have told repeatedly the lightest density material that you can get.
Thank you so much for clarifying, I apologize if there was any misunderstanding.
Now I understand it more clearly and I am reading the links.
Old 8th August 2019
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by producerxtr View Post
Thank you so much for clarifying, I apologize if there was any misunderstanding.
Now I understand it more clearly and I am reading the links.
You are welcome. One of the great problems in learning acoustics is very little is intuitive. Hence over the years written "Studying acoustics, why aspirin was invented" and "aspirin, cheaper by the case."
Old 8th August 2019
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by producerxtr View Post
I apologize, I missed the link that you provided in the 7th answer, my bad.
Now I understand it more clearly and I appreciate your explanation.
Sorry, no problem
Success with your project.
Old 8th August 2019
  #27
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by avare View Post
You are welcome. One of the great problems in learning acoustics is very little is intuitive. Hence over the years written "Studying acoustics, why aspirin was invented" and "aspirin, cheaper by the case."

Thank you for your help

I found one in my region, that has a density of 50 kg/m^3
Thickness of 50 mm (1.969 inches)
And it has an aluminum foil facing (not sure about how that affect the absorption & if it is a good thing or not.)
Would you recommend me to get it? Or shall I search for better options?

Btw I recall reading a comment from Glenn Kuras in a thread on Gearslutz, and he was mentioning that make sure the thickness is no more than 4 inches,
why is that?
Old 8th August 2019
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by producerxtr View Post
Thank you for your help

I found one in my region, that has a density of 50 kg/m^3
Thickness of 50 mm (1.969 inches)
And it has an aluminum foil facing (not sure about how that affect the absorption & if it is a good thing or not.)
Would you recommend me to get it? Or shall I search for better options?

Btw I recall reading a comment from Glenn Kuras in a thread on Gearslutz, and he was mentioning that make sure the thickness is no more than 4 inches,
why is that?
You are we;come. Is it mineral wool or glass wool? The way you will using it, flat. The foil does not have a significant effect.

A vague mention of something Glenn said is meaningless without context. Hopefully you are reading the threads I linked. Higher GFR materials reflect longer waves internally at thicker dimensions. Keeping to GFR numbers up to 4" thick 16,000 Rayls/m is good. Thicker material around 10,000 Rayls/m is about ideal. Thicker (eg 12") material is best at around 5,000 Rayls/m.

I would look for lighter material. I have no idea how the trade between countries is in your part of the world but I found out Rockwool has an office in Bahrain and Rockfon in Dubai!

Congratulations on making progress.
Old 8th August 2019
  #29
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by avare View Post
You are we;come. Is it mineral wool or glass wool? The way you will using it, flat. The foil does not have a significant effect.

A vague mention of something Glenn said is meaningless without context. Hopefully you are reading the threads I linked. Higher GFR materials reflect longer waves internally at thicker dimensions. Keeping to GFR numbers up to 4" thick 16,000 Rayls/m is good. Thicker material around 10,000 Rayls/m is about ideal. Thicker (eg 12") material is best at around 5,000 Rayls/m.

I would look for lighter material. I have no idea how the trade between countries is in your part of the world but I found out Rockwool has an office in Bahrain and Rockfon in Dubai!

Congratulations on making progress.

They have mentioned that the material is rockwool, and it is from a brand that is based in Dubai, so I assume they meant mineral wool.
It's pretty funny cuz as you said, Rockwool is a brand name and yet these people here, consider it to be a material name.

Some of them even think that Rockwool and Mineral wool are two different things.

Now Rockwool (Roxul) has an office here in Dubai, but they don't sell products to individual people like me. They only sell to companies. This is their policy as per UAE's laws
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