The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 All  This Thread  Reviews  Gear Database  Gear for sale     Latest  Trending
Just moved in! New Studio Build
Old 4 weeks ago
  #61
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by recaro19 View Post
Left speaker is 40" away from the left wall and right is about 39.5" away from the right
That shouldn't be a problem. A half inch difference could cause differences in the high end, but not at 100 Hz. I would suspect the alcove off to the right.

OK, now that you have the basic setup, and you have REW working fine, I'd suggest that you start looking for better locations by moving the speakers and mix position, in small incremental steps. For example, you could try bringing the speakers a little closer together, in steps of a couple of inches, and see if there's a smoother spot. Also try moving them further apart in steps of 2 inches. Find the best spot, for the speakers, then do the same with the mic: move it forwards in small steps, then backwards in small steps, to see if there's a better spot. Measure with REW at each location, and compare them by stepping through the graphs fast (use the "Alt" key and the cursor up/down keys). Look mainly at the time-domain response, such as waterfalls, spectrograms, and decay plots, and don't focus too much on the frequency response plots: they are important too, but what you are looking for most is better time-domain response, from having a beneficial relationship between the speakers and the mix position, in the room.

You might do all this and discover that things don't actually change that much on the graphs, or that you are already at the best spot: if that's the case, then it's time to start treating!

- Stuart -
Old 4 weeks ago
  #62
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundman2020 View Post
That shouldn't be a problem. A half inch difference could cause differences in the high end, but not at 100 Hz. I would suspect the alcove off to the right.

OK, now that you have the basic setup, and you have REW working fine, I'd suggest that you start looking for better locations by moving the speakers and mix position, in small incremental steps. For example, you could try bringing the speakers a little closer together, in steps of a couple of inches, and see if there's a smoother spot. Also try moving them further apart in steps of 2 inches. Find the best spot, for the speakers, then do the same with the mic: move it forwards in small steps, then backwards in small steps, to see if there's a better spot. Measure with REW at each location, and compare them by stepping through the graphs fast (use the "Alt" key and the cursor up/down keys). Look mainly at the time-domain response, such as waterfalls, spectrograms, and decay plots, and don't focus too much on the frequency response plots: they are important too, but what you are looking for most is better time-domain response, from having a beneficial relationship between the speakers and the mix position, in the room.

You might do all this and discover that things don't actually change that much on the graphs, or that you are already at the best spot: if that's the case, then it's time to start treating!

- Stuart -
Got my work cut out for me!

Forgive me, but what should I be looking for in terms of the graph? Not to sure how to read them. It’s al Hebrew to me. Lol

How do I know if my monitors are in The right spot? What am I aiming for here in terms of a graph that looks “good” rather then “ugly”? Also, do I do all three tests again?

As mentioned very new to this.

Thanks Stuart!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #63
Lives for gear
 
akebrake's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by recaro19 View Post

Here is what John said over at AV NIRVANA:

"Looks like there was a glitch or dropout during your soundcard cal measurement, it also rolls off quite early at the top end. I'd just remove the soundcard cal and measure without it.

Use single sweeps rather than 2 sweeps.

Look in Audio Midi Setup in the mac (in Applications -> Utilities) and check the sample rate the card is configured for, use the same rate in REW."
In the latest mdat: Baseline Measurement- Aug 15 2019 (post 57) you are using 2 sweeps.

Would you mind making another test with a single sweep (rather than 2 sweeps?)
Same mic and spkr pos of course...

Just curious to see if that will change the measured response.

Best
Old 4 weeks ago
  #64
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by akebrake View Post
In the latest mdat: Baseline Measurement- Aug 15 2019 (post 57) you are using 2 sweeps.

Would you mind making another test with a single sweep (rather than 2 sweeps?)
Same mic and spkr pos of course...

Just curious to see if that will change the measured response.

Best
Sure! Don’t mind at all. I’m visiting my parents for the weekend but should be back tomorrow. I can run the test again once I get back.

Do you want me to do all three L/R/L&R measurements again?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #65
Lives for gear
 
akebrake's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by recaro19 View Post
...Do you want me to do all three L/R/L&R measurements again?
Just one will be fine.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #66
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by akebrake View Post
Just one will be fine.
ok awesome.

ALSO, Should i take the speakers off of the stands and put them on the desk? That would allow me to push the desk all the way against the wall.

I'm going to be working on this tonight after work.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #67
Quote:
Originally Posted by recaro19 View Post
ALSO, Should i take the speakers off of the stands and put them on the desk?
Contrary to what @ akebrake said, I suggest you measure as many positions as you can. If you have had good symmetry (frequency and spectrogram) so far, I would concentrate on one speaker, too, and measure as many positions as possible. Don't look at the numbers while measuring, just set up, measure, note what you just measured and move on.

That's my style at least.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #68
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by johannburkard View Post
Contrary to what @ akebrake said, I suggest you measure as many positions as you can. If you have had good symmetry (frequency and spectrogram) so far, I would concentrate on one speaker, too, and measure as many positions as possible. Don't look at the numbers while measuring, just set up, measure, note what you just measured and move on.

That's my style at least.
Well, I don't know if I have good symmetry

I'll take a few more measurements with them on the stands in different positions then try the approach on the desk.

How many more measurements should I be taking and when do i know when i've reach a good position?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #69
Quote:
Originally Posted by recaro19 View Post
How many more measurements should I be taking and when do i know when i've reach a good position?
I've done 24 at one point in two hours or so.

You'll only know by posting the .mdat here.

TBH Unless you have bought and installed any acoustic treatment in the meantime, they will probably all be horrible with some slightly better and some slightly worse.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #70
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Contrary to what @ akebrake said, I suggest you measure as many positions as you can.
He wasn't suggesting that the OP should not measure in multiple locations: Rather, he was suggesting that he do one single test with just one speaker while NOT using multiple sweeps. Because there are known issues that can mess up measurements with some mic setups, when doing multiple sweeps. In that case, it is better to just do a single sweep for each test. Akebrake's suggestion is a valid check on the measurements that the OP already did, to make sure that there are no anomalies in the data from having done dual sweeps. His intention was, correctly, yo compare a single-sweep test to one of the already-done multiplie-sweep tests. But if the OP moved either the speaker or the mic between those tests and the new single-sweep test, then it is no longer possible to compare the results. In that case, he would have to redo the tests without moving the speaker or mic: one test with multiple sweeps, and one with a single sweep, in both cases just from a single speaker: it doesn't matter which one, either left, or right.

- Stuart -
Old 4 weeks ago
  #71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundman2020 View Post
He wasn't suggesting that the OP should not measure in multiple locations: Rather, he was suggesting that he do one single test with just one speaker while NOT using multiple sweeps.
Sorry @ akebrake . I admit I sometimes skim over posts.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #72
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundman2020 View Post
He wasn't suggesting that the OP should not measure in multiple locations: Rather, he was suggesting that he do one single test with just one speaker while NOT using multiple sweeps. Because there are known issues that can mess up measurements with some mic setups, when doing multiple sweeps. In that case, it is better to just do a single sweep for each test. Akebrake's suggestion is a valid check on the measurements that the OP already did, to make sure that there are no anomalies in the data from having done dual sweeps. His intention was, correctly, yo compare a single-sweep test to one of the already-done multiplie-sweep tests. But if the OP moved either the speaker or the mic between those tests and the new single-sweep test, then it is no longer possible to compare the results. In that case, he would have to redo the tests without moving the speaker or mic: one test with multiple sweeps, and one with a single sweep, in both cases just from a single speaker: it doesn't matter which one, either left, or right.

- Stuart -
Haven't moved the speakers yet and I took measurements of where the mic was placed so I should be able to do a single sweep no problem.

Keep you all posted.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #73
Gear Head
 

Update: Aug 20 2019 Measurements

Ok,

So i took 3 more measurements.

First measurement is titled "Baseline Aug 15" and that was my original speaker position.

Second measurement was with the speakers push inwards towards the centre of my desk. Labeled "Baseline (2) Aug 20"

Third measurement was with the speakers pushed out towards the L&R walls. Labeled "Baseline (3) Aug 20"

and lastly the measurement labeled "Baseline (4) Aug 20" is with the speakers on my desk about 11" away from the front wall from the inner rear corner making the face of the speaker about 19" away from the front wall.

Let me know what your thoughts are. Should I start treatment?

OneDrive Link below:

Last edited by recaro19; 3 weeks ago at 11:42 PM.. Reason: new link
Old 3 weeks ago
  #74
Gear Head
 

Just seeing if anyone can chime in on the latest measurement?

I don't want to start treating until i have a clear understanding of where to go next.

How do I know which position is best for the monitors?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #75
Lives for gear
 
akebrake's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by johannburkard View Post
Sorry @ akebrake . I admit I sometimes skim over posts.
You're forgiven!

Cheers
Old 3 weeks ago
  #76
Gear Head
 

I just realized that the file is giving a "File is not in .mdat format" error in REW.

I'll have to resave the file and upload again when i get home. Apologies for that.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #77
Lives for gear
 
akebrake's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by recaro19 View Post
I just realized that the file is giving a "File is not in .mdat format" error in REW.

I'll have to resave the file and upload again when i get home. Apologies for that.
Which one?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #78
Quote:
Originally Posted by recaro19 View Post
I just realized that the file is giving a "File is not in .mdat format" error in REW.
Had this, too.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #79
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by akebrake View Post
Which one?
The latest one I posted as a OneDrive Link. I deleted the old fie

Try this one and let me know:

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AtxZ-eIRC9dSgr8d...qa60w?e=AGh7tu
Old 3 weeks ago
  #80
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by recaro19 View Post
The latest one I posted as a OneDrive Link. I deleted the old fie

Try this one and let me know:

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AtxZ-eIRC9dSgr8d...qa60w?e=AGh7tu
There's still something not right with your calibration. According to the MDAT file, you did your tests at 105 dB, and your noise floor is at about 70 to 75 dB. Even if the dB scale is off by 20 dB, that still puts your noise floor at 55 dB, which is way loud if true, and would make the studio pretty much unusable.

So please check your calibration process one more time, and see why your levels are so far off.

- Stuart -
Attached Thumbnails
Just moved in!  New Studio Build-recaro19-noise-floor.png  
Old 3 weeks ago
  #81
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundman2020 View Post
There's still something not right with your calibration. According to the MDAT file, you did your tests at 105 dB, and your noise floor is at about 70 to 75 dB. Even if the dB scale is off by 20 dB, that still puts your noise floor at 55 dB, which is way loud if true, and would make the studio pretty much unusable.

So please check your calibration process one more time, and see why your levels are so far off.

- Stuart -
I'll be honest, I have no idea what i'm doing. I'm sure that is already obvious BUT I am following your instructions as you have instructed me to do so i'm completely lost in this circle i'm running in.

I really don't know what it could be so please tell me what my settings need to be so I can provide you all with the necessary details needed for me to get this project underway and take the correct steps to get a good sounding room.

I don't understand the charts, I don't know what it means when you say my noise floor is too high or why my readings are incorrect. Is it the mic? Is it my soundcard? I really don't understand what i'm doing.

Everything was calibrated to 80db. I've picked up the proper dB reader, i've set it to slow setting, c. Everything was done step by step and yet it's all still wrong. I really don't know what else it could be.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #82
Lives for gear
 
Synthpark's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by recaro19 View Post
Everything was calibrated to 80db. I've picked up the proper dB reader, i've set it to slow setting, c. Everything was done step by step and yet it's all still wrong. I really don't know what else it could be.
*Tip of the day*: If you measure the same constellation three times and display all measurements at once in REW, you will know if noise floor is a factor or can be neglected. No curve variations = no problem.

Last edited by Synthpark; 3 weeks ago at 10:23 AM..
Old 3 weeks ago
  #83
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthpark View Post
*Tip of the day*: If you measure the same constellation three times and display all measurements at once in REW, you will know if noise floor is a factor or can be neglected. No curve variations = no problem.
So is there an issue then with my latest .mdat file and measurements?

Stuart continuously finds problems which I try to rectify but I'm not doing anything different then what his guide asks of. Perhaps I have REW settings selected that shouldn't be but I don't know how to really work the software outside of what Stuarts guide is telling me to do.

I'm spinning in circles trying to understand what I'm doing wrong here so I can play nice and get this project underway.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #84
Lives for gear
 

Are you certain that you calibrated REW itself to the sound level shown by the hand held sound level meter? That seems to be part of the problem. Trying checking that part again.

- Stuart -
Old 3 weeks ago
  #85
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundman2020 View Post
Are you certain that you calibrated REW itself to the sound level shown by the hand held sound level meter? That seems to be part of the problem. Trying checking that part again.

- Stuart -
By using REW's SPL metre right? I think this is the last part of your tutorial and yes, i measure with the SPL metre and punch in the reading on REW to reflect that number.

Could it because my input gain on the microphone is too high?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #86
Gear Head
 

Bump.... still scratching my head
Old 6 days ago
  #87
Gear Head
 

Hey everyone,

So I'm back after a little bit of a break. The room measurements really were getting annoying since it wasn't working in my favor. I was fed up with not getting the proper results so decided to ditch the DIY panel project and just move forward with some Primacoustics products.

I'm going to be starting with he London 12 with the possibility of two maxtraps. I'd like to get 4 maxtraps all together for the first two corners but will be putting this together over a few months rather than all at once. I'll be adding their cloud system at some point as well.

Who else has used this system? I'm really looking forward to installing it!
Old 6 days ago
  #88
Lives for gear
 
Starlight's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by recaro19 View Post
I want to avoid expensive foam since it isn’t the most effective in terms of performance and cost. A lot of people have told me to stay away from foam for bass traps as it simply isn’t going to do anything below a certain frequency.
That is a wise decision you made back in July.

Quote:
Originally Posted by recaro19 View Post
I was fed up with not getting the proper results so decided to ditch the DIY project and just move forward with some Primacoustics products.

I'm going to be starting witht he London 12 with the possibility of two maxtraps. I'd like to get 4 maxtraps ...
And what makes you believe that the expensive foam you wanted to avoid is now going to give you the proper results you are wanting?
Old 6 days ago
  #89
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
That is a wise decision you made back in July.



And what makes you believe that the expensive foam you wanted to avoid is now going to give you the proper results you are wanting?
Hey Starlight,

I think you misread. I mentioned I'm moving forward with Primacoustics. Not foam.

Best,
Old 6 days ago
  #90
Lives for gear
 
Starlight's Avatar
 

You are right and I apologise; the London 12 kit is made using fibreglass, not foam.

However, have you looked at what you get? Not a single item is deeper than 2". Do not rush into making a wrong decision.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump