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Shed studio acoustic exploration - Help solve this conundrum...please...
Old 1 week ago
  #31
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'Half vocal booth' approach

And here's my latest configuration of the room using all the Knauf Ecose Acoustic roll (50mm, layered to 200mm, slightly compressed in quilt covers) and Rockwool RWA45 (40mm, layered to 120mm, slightly compressed in quilt covers)...Please excuse the not-so-tasteful coverings - I'm reusing some old bed linen which my daughter has grown out of in terms of her interests...as mentioned at the start, I don't care what it looks like as long as it's functional.

Am I correct in saying that this configuration / these measurements (left speaker only, taken from 38% mark) are better than the 'Full test treatment - play' configuration and results?


From what I can see, the overall levels are significantly lower across the range with the half-vocal booth approach and the nulls are less extreme and a bit wider, meaning they should be more easily treatable with the right broadband absorbers (easier than fixing narrower nulls with panel/helmoltz absorbers with my unskilled DIY approach).
Attached Thumbnails
Shed studio acoustic exploration - Help solve this conundrum...please...-half-vocal-booth-approach-left-speaker-mic-position-1-waterfall-20hz-20khz.jpg   Shed studio acoustic exploration - Help solve this conundrum...please...-half-vocal-booth-approach-left-speaker-mic-position-1-decay-20hz-20khz.jpg   Shed studio acoustic exploration - Help solve this conundrum...please...-half-vocal-booth-approach-left-speaker-mic-position-1-spectogram-20hz-20khz.jpg   Shed studio acoustic exploration - Help solve this conundrum...please...-half-vocal-booth-approach-back.jpg   Shed studio acoustic exploration - Help solve this conundrum...please...-half-vocal-booth-appraoch-front.jpg  

Old 1 week ago
  #32
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The aesthetics leaves something to be desired though.
Old 1 week ago
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johannburkard View Post
The aesthetics leaves something to be desired though.
Yes, definitely, Johann...its quite hideous but that'll be easily fixed (if/when I choose to do so) with some plainer fabrics to cover all absorbers consistently once I've optimised the acoustics as far as possible with the materials I have.... The current fabrics have been used whilst experimenting, at least to minimise waste if I end up destroying them in the process.

Do you think I should
A: keep going with this 'half vocal booth' approach (with Knauf quilts/pillows on the walls and ceiling, plus Rockwool across the corners... Finding ways to further reduce those nulls...

... or, B: revert back to the Knauf filling the corners and put the Rockwool quilt/pillow panels on the walls now that I've made the Rockwool panels thicker than what they were in the 'Full test treatment - play' configuration? In your experience, and/or based on the data I've provided so far, do you think it's likely to be worth the time and effort to test this?
... I suspect I'll end up going with this latest approach as the Rockwool corner panels seem to be more efficient than the Knauf-filled corners but I'm certainly no expert...

Thanks

Seos
Old 1 week ago
  #34
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I lost track a little bit what the individual measurements are, but "full test treatment" here has the best amplitude response as far as I can see.

While you're at it, try to find out where that hole around 120 Hz is coming from. It may be the ceiling. You can find out by moving the speakers up and down and keeping the microphone at the same spot.

Realistically though, and I may have said this, speakers with DSP or an EQ may help you a lot.
Old 1 week ago
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johannburkard View Post
I lost track a little bit what the individual measurements are, but "full test treatment" here has the best amplitude response as far as I can see.

While you're at it, try to find out where that hole around 120 Hz is coming from. It may be the ceiling. You can find out by moving the speakers up and down and keeping the microphone at the same spot.

Realistically though, and I may have said this, speakers with DSP or an EQ may help you a lot.
Hi Johann

So is the lower amplitude better than shorter decay?

Yes, 'Full test treatment' has lower amplitude but the current 'half vocal booth' measurement seems to have shorter decay.

Will try changing the speaker height this evening if I get a chance.

Thanks
Old 1 week ago
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seos View Post
So is the lower amplitude better than shorter decay?
I would expect both to go hand-in-hand.

In my tests, when the amplitude of room modes goes down, the decay time does so, too, but the decay time moves before the amplitude moves.
Old 1 week ago
  #37
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I've just taken a look at the impulse response of one of your .mdats. The reflection at 11 ms is probably the rear wall, right? Do you know already what 3,89 and 4,617 ms are?
Old 1 week ago
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johannburkard View Post
I would expect both to go hand-in-hand.

In my tests, when the amplitude of room modes goes down, the decay time does so, too, but the decay time moves before the amplitude moves.
Yes, I've noticed this too but I'm now realising that it's probably more important to reduce the amplitude first as decays should fall in line with this once treated....is this correct?
Old 1 week ago
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johannburkard View Post
I've just taken a look at the impulse response of one of your .mdats. The reflection at 11 ms is probably the rear wall, right? Do you know already what 3,89 and 4,617 ms are?
Sorry, Johann... I still don't really understand how to read impulse responses but I've looked it up now and will delve in further after work. So, I haven't picked up on those figures you've mentioned... But if you reckon the 11ms is the rear wall, then based on distance, I'd guess the 3,89 will be the left wall and the 4,617 could be the front wall or ceiling...?... No idea what to do with this info but hopefully further reading with clarify.

Thanks again for your time Johann.
Old 1 week ago
  #40
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Is this a joke?
Old 1 week ago
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayPee View Post
Is this a joke?
Hi JayPee

Is what a joke?
Old 5 days ago
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johannburkard View Post
I lost track a little bit what the individual measurements are, but "full test treatment" here has the best amplitude response as far as I can see.

While you're at it, try to find out where that hole around 120 Hz is coming from. It may be the ceiling. You can find out by moving the speakers up and down and keeping the microphone at the same spot....
Hi Johann

I'm not removing the current 'half-vocal booth configuration until after my daughter's birthday'.

So for now, I've tried raising the speakers:

1:+145mm (255mm total)
2. +290mm (400mm total)

Measurements from the original Mic pos 1 (H = 110mm)

Is further testing needed (IE. one from 145mm above floor level)?


Thanks

Seos
Attached Thumbnails
Shed studio acoustic exploration - Help solve this conundrum...please...-img_20190614_031215.jpg   Shed studio acoustic exploration - Help solve this conundrum...please...-img_20190614_031402.jpg  
Attached Files

Last edited by Seos; 5 days ago at 08:29 AM.. Reason: Adding photos
Old 5 days ago
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seos View Post
So for now, I've tried raising the speakers:

1:+145mm (255mm total)
2. +290mm (400mm total)
You can see that moving the speaker up a lot doesn't work with this speaker, probably due to a hole in the vertical directivity that sucks out everything between 2 and 4 kHz.

On the other hand, moving it up a bit doesn't change much but it may reduce interferences (haven't looked at the .mdat before the two in your post).

The impulse response looks interesting because you have so much damping in that shed and everything dies off so quickly. There are two reflections at 11 and 13 ms. I guess we would rather have one at 13 ms. Is the rear uneven?
Old 5 days ago
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johannburkard View Post
You can see that moving the speaker up a lot doesn't work with this speaker, probably due to a hole in the vertical directivity that sucks out everything between 2 and 4 kHz.

On the other hand, moving it up a bit doesn't change much but it may reduce interferences (haven't looked at the .mdat before the two in your post).

The impulse response looks interesting because you have so much damping in that shed and everything dies off so quickly. There are two reflections at 11 and 13 ms. I guess we would rather have one at 13 ms. Is the rear uneven?
Thanks Johann!

Ah... So that would explain the new hole that appeared in the higher speaker position measurement...

... The whole shed is uneven to a certain extent but by millimetres (margin of error 10mm I think) ... The shed door (back wall) is not 100% flush with the rest of the wall, and the and its filled with Knauf Ecose rather than the Rockwool RWA45... Could this cause what you've seen?

Again, I'm not sure about reading impulse responses just yet.

Perhaps I'll try this again when I remove all the materials again to get a true reading of the room.

Please note that I think I might have a metal plate I can use for a panel absorber when I get a chance to build one. Just looking into how now... Think I would just need to buy some acoustic sealant.
Old 5 days ago
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seos View Post
... The whole shed is uneven to a certain extent but by millimetres (margin of error 10mm I think) ... The shed door (back wall) is not 100% flush with the rest of the wall, and the and its filled with Knauf Ecose rather than the Rockwool RWA45... Could this cause what you've seen?
Hard to say. I would say you have some understanding now what treatment works where to what extent so you can work on getting that in place (respecting aesthetics, please). Once that's done, we can dig deeper.
Old 5 days ago
  #46
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Hmmm.... Am I correct in saying that this kitchen splash-back panel would need to have the supporting riveted metal strips removed from the back to allow it to resonate to its full potential before cutting to size for a panel absorber?
Attached Thumbnails
Shed studio acoustic exploration - Help solve this conundrum...please...-img_20190614_125208.jpg   Shed studio acoustic exploration - Help solve this conundrum...please...-img_20190614_125150.jpg  
Old 5 days ago
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johannburkard View Post
Hard to say. I would say you have some understanding now what treatment works where to what extent so you can work on getting that in place (respecting aesthetics, please). Once that's done, we can dig deeper.
Thanks Johann

I'll return to the a configuration more like the 'Full-treatment test - play' set up some time after Monday, filling the corners with the Knauf again and putting my current (thicker) RWA45 panels on the wall reflection points. I'll still be using the old quilt covers until I'm happy with the placement of the materials.
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