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My control room refurb - what next? Diffusion Products
Old 26th March 2019
  #1
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My control room refurb - what next?

Hi everyone

Like many folks I have been trawling through these forums for a long time. Reading the studio building threads over the years has been both enlightening, overwhelming and inspiring in equal measure. A lot of theories and dissenting opinions left me not knowing 100% what to do but after a few years of being in my space and dealing with woefully unfit acoustics, I had enough. Instead of buying a new mic or piece of outboard I saved every penny I could and tried to invest all of it (and my time) doing the best, most complete job I could manage. With a wood working shop at the house and some (...a lot of) help, I began working.

I'll try and keep this as concise as possible for everyone. There is a slight "build diary" to begin with but it's all in aide of the question, "what next?" Also, am I even on the right track? I decided to make this post now as nothing is upholstered and most things can be undone, if needs be. I'm unable to post IMG in my post here so these links will have to do. If I can get that changed in the future, I will edit my post. The room is roughly 3.25m by 4.7m with the ceiling being around 8 foot high. So...

I began by constructing a trap that would extend right along the perimeter of the wall/ceiling. The dimensions average at about 400mmx400mm

Shared album - Greene Noise Audio - Google Photos

To hold the insulation I used some chicken wire.

Shared album - Greene Noise Audio - Google Photos

I used Knauf loft roll 44 as it was the cheapest and most readily available to me and installed it right along the perimeter, being careful to keep it nice and fluffy.

Shared album - Greene Noise Audio - Google Photos

Next, I constructed some SSCs at the front of the room. Where the patch bay was located was going to be in the way of one of the traps but I had seen on studio-creations gallery that they built a patch bay into the trap so I gave it a shot.

Shared album - Greene Noise Audio - Google Photos

Shared album - Greene Noise Audio - Google Photos

https://photos.app.goo.gl/tscwY4iQovAEDcHh9

Worked a treat I think. When both were finished it looked like this

https://photos.app.goo.gl/KnkRn6pZxkz6FaPH7

I Constructed a trap for the back wall which was 380mm deep, 1.8m high and 1.5m wide. The loft rolls I got were partially perforated at 380mm and 570mm which made the decision for me when deciding how deep traps where during the build most of the time. The framing etc was as easy and cheap as I could make them. They, like everything else, look kind of ugly right now but will be grand once they are finished properly. The rear corner traps were constructed in the same way measuring about 2m high and 570mm wide and deep. Altogether it turned out like this

https://photos.app.goo.gl/rZsaJjuo5PLXcYA89

The left trap and back wall trap both have rubber feet but for the one at the door, I used furniture slides so it can be easily moved back and forth. The structure around the perimeter needed to be modified so the door could clear it and so that trap also needed to be slightly shorter to clear the lower level of the perimeter trap where the door wasn't an issue. There is space in the back wall absorber for some diffusion panels but it can just as easily be filled with insulation.

I then built 2 panels for either side of the mixing position. Probably more complicated than they needed to be but they're done now (thankfully). They are 1.2m wide. 1.8m high and 150mm thick, with a 6 inch air gap using rockwool RW3. While constructing the wall/ceiling traps I thought ahead to build something to accommodate a cloud also. It is 3 panels wide. I used 100mm Rockwool RWA45 for this. It is doubled up at the minute to give 200mm. That may be too deep for that material but more on that later. In the end, it looked like this

https://photos.app.goo.gl/qsJvwPwikHwTazwg8

That is all that is currently constructed. Now, i'm turning to those with a greater understanding than I have, of the results. At each stage of construction I have measured each speaker individually as well and as consistently as I can. I've likely made mistakes but I will continue this in a reply, to break up the wall of text and images. I believe i've posted in the right place but if this thread needs moved that's all good.

If you made it through, thanks for reading so far

/GNA
Old 26th March 2019
  #2
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REW Results

I think I gained a better understanding of how to use REW as I used it more and more. Unfortunately the measurements had been taken already and I had moved on and added more elements to the room. I hope these graphs are enough for someone to help me make a more informed decision on where to go from here.

This is the response of the bare room

Waterfall:
Shared album - Greene Noise Audio - Google Photos

Spectrogram:
Shared album - Greene Noise Audio - Google Photos

After adding the perimeter around the wall/ceiling boundary and the SSC I got

Waterfall:
Shared album - Greene Noise Audio - Google Photos

Spectrogram:
Shared album - Greene Noise Audio - Google Photos

I think the windowing may be wrong for the waterfall here (i.e too large) but I seem to remember reading about needing to see the "foot of the mountain".

When I added the back wall trap, I varied the air gap between 12cm and 20cm (the most I can feasibly get away with)

12cm air gap:
Shared album - Greene Noise Audio - Google Photos

20cm air gap:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/KfL2qyiQF8xz3UZT7

I'm not really sure, if there is any improvement here. I'd love to know how to interpret the graph properly and see the points where it is getting any better or worse. The Q of some peaks seems to be widening slightly but i'm really not an expert.

The same applies here, with the difference between the clouds at 10cm and 20cm. I have 7.5cm thick RWA45 also that I can sub in. This would give me a range of depths from 7.5cm to 30cm of RWA45 if I don't have any air gap.

10cm cloud:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Ym68g9toqmMkBWME7

20cm cloud:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/U4ZSWLDb8WNm4dr28

When adding in the side panels the dip at ~80hz deepens

Waterfall:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/iRzMPXmBhNb4q7Qc6

Spectrogram
:https://photos.app.goo.gl/aeyjWxuSEDmyu5XDA

I'm also becoming aware of how short the ringing (?) is above the sub and low bass region. I'm also feeling how dead the room is becoming in general. Should I be worried than my control room is dead? Having read the thread that is linked constantly when this question is asked, it seems not. I guess more can be said about this after the final graphs.

These last graphs are after adding the corner traps at the back. they seem to have remedied that dip that formed but revealed another between 200-300hz.

Waterfall:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/6YVy7qejRF822ZVJ6

Spectrogram:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/UctmN6qKLU2Uo6CdA

So there it is. A lot of information I know but I thought more was better than less. There is a massive flutter echo in the middle of the room. I don't know if a mat on the ground will kill that. I'm reluctant to add more insulation than is necessary of course but willing to do whatever really. I've come this far after all There is space on the ceiling in the middle of the room for a cloud that I could angle towards the back trap and diffusor that will be there. Is it worth looking into slats for the back traps? I've read mixed things really.

In terms of ETC, I really wasn't grasping how to use or interpret them. Maybe my brain was fried by this stage, who knows haha I can certainly provide them if someone is able to dumb it down. Like, waaaaay down.

Anyway thanks for checking this out. Any and all thoughts are very much welcome. This work should have been done a long time ago and now than I'm at it, i'd like to do the absolute best job I can.

/GNA

Last edited by GreeneNoise; 26th March 2019 at 05:48 PM.. Reason: Forgot to mention ETC.
Old 26th March 2019
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreeneNoise View Post
Hi everyone

Like many folks I have been trawling through these forums for a long time. Reading the studio building threads over the years has been both enlightening, overwhelming and inspiring in equal measure. A lot of theories and dissenting opinions left me not knowing 100% what to do but after a few years of being in my space and dealing with woefully unfit acoustics, I had enough. Instead of buying a new mic or piece of outboard I saved every penny I could and tried to invest all of it (and my time) doing the best, most complete job I could manage. With a wood working shop at the house and some (...a lot of) help, I began working.
I'm in the same boat, with the exception of actually having saved the money and done it, haha. Excellent post, thanks for all the details. It's looking great. May I ask what the budget is?
Old 26th March 2019
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilRoy View Post
I'm in the same boat, with the exception of actually having saved the money and done it, haha. Excellent post, thanks for all the details. It's looking great. May I ask what the budget is?
I feel that! Cheers though EvilRoy, i'll be much happier when i'm looking at it upholstered with these rolls of superb Cara fabric and i'm working with clients again.

Honestly, in terms of budget, whatever it would take to get the right result. I set aside a lot of money for it not knowing what it was going to cost me at the end. The more I worked at it, the more I redefined what I was willing to do. I've definitely spent about £1.5k on materials plus the loss of business from being closed. However I have plenty of stuff left over which i'm planning to sell after i'm finished. Anyone in Ireland need some RW3?

I've built a similar wall to ceiling boundary in the live room. It's a whole other project in my mind though. Having a completely dead control room is one thing but i'll have to play the live room by ear and may not have the whole structure filled like I do with the control room. Once I have my floor to ceiling traps in and wall panels in, I have a feeling i'll be removing some of the loft roll from there to keep some life in the place.

/GNA
Old 27th March 2019
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreeneNoise View Post
I feel that! Cheers though EvilRoy, i'll be much happier when i'm looking at it upholstered with these rolls of superb Cara fabric and i'm working with clients again.

Honestly, in terms of budget, whatever it would take to get the right result. I set aside a lot of money for it not knowing what it was going to cost me at the end. The more I worked at it, the more I redefined what I was willing to do. I've definitely spent about £1.5k on materials plus the loss of business from being closed. However I have plenty of stuff left over which i'm planning to sell after i'm finished. Anyone in Ireland need some RW3?

I've built a similar wall to ceiling boundary in the live room. It's a whole other project in my mind though. Having a completely dead control room is one thing but i'll have to play the live room by ear and may not have the whole structure filled like I do with the control room. Once I have my floor to ceiling traps in and wall panels in, I have a feeling i'll be removing some of the loft roll from there to keep some life in the place.

/GNA
Philip Newell suggests covering every surface in the room off of which the speaker signal can reflect (except the floor) with maximally absorbent treatment effective to the lowest possible frequency (or relevant frequency). You could use your remaining materials to finish covering all the walls and ceiling to the maximum depth possible, or practical to you. Then you could add wood slats, (I’d use 1x2’s as they’re known here in the States) perhaps on the rear side walls to add some life, but in a way that they won’t directly reflect signal to the main listening position. You could also cover the front wall behind the speakers with slats spaced .250” (5-6mm) apart. Check out John Brandt designed rooms to see examples. If it’s still too dead for you, you could try some small diffusers on the rear wall.

I don’t claim to be an expert, I have just read a lot of books on this subject and I’ve used many of the principles with good results for my application. Just trying to help.
Old 27th March 2019
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Witchhammer66 View Post
Philip Newell suggests covering every surface in the room off of which the speaker signal can reflect (except the floor) with maximally absorbent treatment effective to the lowest possible frequency (or relevant frequency). You could use your remaining materials to finish covering all the walls and ceiling to the maximum depth possible, or practical to you. Then you could add wood slats, (I’d use 1x2’s as they’re known here in the States) perhaps on the rear side walls to add some life, but in a way that they won’t directly reflect signal to the main listening position. You could also cover the front wall behind the speakers with slats spaced .250” (5-6mm) apart. Check out John Brandt designed rooms to see examples. If it’s still too dead for you, you could try some small diffusers on the rear wall.

I don’t claim to be an expert, I have just read a lot of books on this subject and I’ve used many of the principles with good results for my application. Just trying to help.
Thanks for the reply Witchhammer!

I’ve read that the orientation of the slats effects which way the sound is reflected also. I seem to remember it is reflected the opposite way to how the slats are orientated, ie vertical slats, horizontal reflection. This would be post-upholstering. As long as everything is looking good on my REW results then I can press on with that.

Does anyone have any opinions on the rew graphs?

/GNA
Old 28th March 2019
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreeneNoise View Post
...
So there it is. A lot of information I know but I thought more was better than less. .../GNA
Hello GNA!

Nice job you’ve done!

I am very interested in helping investigate how this kind of treatment (especially soffits around the room-perimeter) works. Not very common here probably for practical reasons.

In order to compare different before/ after spectrum & decay-changes it’s important to be able to use overlay plots and other REW plot-settings (one is used to).

Would you kindly upload the mdats here? Hopefully you have saved them all from empty room to current state.

Best regards

Ake
Old 28th March 2019
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akebrake View Post
Hello GNA!

Nice job you’ve done!

I am very interested in helping investigate how this kind of treatment (especially soffits around the room-perimeter) works. Not very common here probably for practical reasons.

In order to compare different before/ after spectrum & decay-changes it’s important to be able to use overlay plots and other REW plot-settings (one is used to).

Would you kindly upload the mdats here? Hopefully you have saved them all from empty room to current state.

Best regards

Ake
Thanks Ake

It may be over the top but I felt that while I was at it, I may as well do more than is necessary and be able to take stuff away after the fact. I also like the idea of having a uniformly finished looked when it will be all upholstered, even if pockets of the soffit around the perimeter would be empty, than have added pieces here and there that would potentially look less "planned out".

I have all the measurements saved and I'll post the mdat as soon as I am back at the studio computer. The graphs I posted were all from the right speaker for the sake of consistency. There are differences between the left and right which I think is down to the partition window into the live room being on the left.

I appreciate the response! If anyone has any ideas as to diffusion for the back wall in the trap at the back, i'm all ears. Initially I was planning a few skyline diffusers but I really like the Arqen stepped and fractal diffusers design. I just don't know if the idea is able to be scaled down to about 30cm high and 1.5m wide and be effective. Will definitely be doing full sized versions of those diffusers in the live room though.

/GNA
Old 28th March 2019
  #9
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Here is the .mdat file. I'm sure there are mistakes in how i've went about it but hopefully it is still useful. I'm open to all suggestions of what to do next and how to go about it. Any explanations of the graphs that are important and where I may have gone wrong are also welcome.

If there are any further measurements needed, I can provide them no problem

Appreciate any help anyone can provide!

*Edit* Due to the number if tests I did, the file is quite large so here is a google drive link to it.

Control Room Measurements (copy).mdat - Google Drive

/GNA

Last edited by GreeneNoise; 28th March 2019 at 05:39 PM.. Reason: mdat too large
Old 28th March 2019
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreeneNoise View Post
Here is the .mdat file. I'm sure there are mistakes in how i've went about it but hopefully it is still useful...
Looks fine to me! And thanks for the thorough labeling

Interesting development of the acoustical response as the traps are added.
Have to think about the "verdict" a little bit though. Pls be patient

Best
Old 28th March 2019
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akebrake View Post
Looks fine to me! And thanks for the thorough labeling

Interesting development of the acoustical response as the traps are added.
Have to think about the "verdict" a little bit though. Pls be patient

Best
That’s a relief!

Take as much time as you need, I really appreciate it you taking a look at it.

/GNA
Old 2nd April 2019
  #12
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Bump

Upholstery materials all ready to go and work to begin asap. If anyone has any opinions on the results before I commit to it that would be great

/GNA
Old 2nd April 2019
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreeneNoise View Post
Bump

Upholstery materials all ready to go and work to begin asap. If anyone has any opinions on the results before I commit to it that would be great

/GNA
Some questions:
In the photo it looks like the density of the SSC material is fairly high?
(Too high GFR?) Can you blow through it without effort?

Window to the live room. How large? Resonant? Doors? (Only back?)

Position of speakers, desk, data Screen, mixer, chair is like the second photo or changed between measurements?

/ Ake
Attached Thumbnails
My control room refurb - what next?-6-kopia.jpg   My control room refurb - what next?-19.jpg  

Last edited by akebrake; 2nd April 2019 at 06:11 PM.. Reason: typo
Old 2nd April 2019
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akebrake View Post
Some questions:
In the photo it looks like the density of the SSC material is fairly dense?
(Too high GFR?) Can you blow through it without effort?

Window to the live room. How large? Resonant? Doors? (Only back?)

Position of speakers, desk, data Screen, mixer, chair is like the second photo or changed between measurements?

/ Ake
The SSCs are rockwool RWA45 which I believe is about 17,000 mksRayls/m. I understand it probably won’t perform as well as the loft roll in there but it was a trade off between ease of construction and availability of materials. I got as much of the loft roll as I could, which was dwindling as spring rolls in. I opted to apply it to the soffit perimeter and back wall soffits and traps.

The window is about 1.5m long and 0.75m high. I plan to address this with a thick, heavy curtain in the near future. While not a perfect solution, it will go some way to helping I would think.

The speakers remained in a static position for all measurements. They are as close to the walls as the stands will permit. I originally had the monitors a good bit out from the wall but when I first started messing with REW, before the measurements in that mdat, I adjusted the monitor position until I got the best response I could and this seemed to work best.

The desk did get pulled in more towards the centre when the side panels were added which probably changed the response slightly.

The data screen will eventually be mounted behind the monitors, in the sill of the window so that it can behind or flush with the plane of the monitors. During the measurements I swivelled the screen out of the way, behind the plane of the monitors to try and remove it's effect on the measurement results. I moved the chair out of the measurement position during the tests to try and remove any effect if would have also.

Yes there is only the one door at the corner of the room another silly design flaw. It has a rubber seal installed so that it is air tight (as much as possible) when it is closed.

Hope all that helps Ake

/GNA
Old 3rd April 2019
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreeneNoise View Post
...The window is about 1.5m long and 0.75m high. I plan to address this with a thick, heavy curtain in the near future. While not a perfect solution, it will go some way to helping I would think.
If that window creates strong specular reflections this kanda curtain is fine.

BTW I spot another window to the right fairly close to the right spkr?

That can be a source of reflection/ coloration/ringing if that glass is resonating?

Quote:
The speakers remained in a static position for all measurements.
That's fine. Speakers close to front wall is usually good for this room-size.

What woofer hight right now? Have you tried a different hight? Adjustable?

Measurement comments:
The major common dip to "ALL SPL" plots is around 70-80 Hz which happen to coincide with Axial vertical mode 0.0.1. (Null at half room hight and 25% of room length mode: 2.0.0. ) Pic 1 below

What kind of walls/celing & floor? Bass leaking out?
Your low end decay is not very long.
Pic 2 is Bare room (Red) and Soffit perimeter. Topt 1/3 Octave Reverse.

Pic 3 below (and large) your meas.no 20
Now we have to find the Non resonant- "one bounce"- (SBIR) reflections that creates the holes (80 & 105Hz) in the Wavelet plot. Possibly in companion with the above mentioned dip.

Linear amplitude is used which "focus"on the decay-slope of the first 12dB (50%) of the normalized peaks. Modal Bars attached along the freq axis (Red: Axial length, Gren:Width & Blue: Hight)

Best

My control room refurb - what next?-20-l-wave-1-8-lin-.jpg
Attached Thumbnails
My control room refurb - what next?-skarmavbild-2019-04-03-kl.-12.07.05.jpg   My control room refurb - what next?-left-ovly-topt-bare-vs-soffit.jpg   My control room refurb - what next?-20-l-wave-1-8-lin-.jpg  
Old 4th April 2019
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akebrake View Post
BTW I spot another window to the right fairly close to the right spkr?

That can be a source of reflection/ coloration/ringing if that glass is resonating?
There is a window behind the panel at the right hand side yes. Maybe I’m wrong but I was hoping that having the panels at each side would negate any affects of both the partition window and the window on the right on the mix position.

Quote:
What woofer hight right now? Have you tried a different hight? Adjustable?
The woofer is 52.5” high. The ceiling is a touch under 8’. I haven’t tried different heights as my stands are sadly not adjustable. This is something I will struggle to address until I could get new stands. I’d need to resume work and get some cash flow again.


Quote:
Measurement comments:
The major common dip to "ALL SPL" plots is around 70-80 Hz which happen to coincide with Axial vertical mode 0.0.1. (Null at half room hight and 25% of room length mode: 2.0.0. ) Pic 1 below

What kind of walls/celing & floor? Bass leaking out?
Your low end decay is not very long.
Pic 2 is Bare room (Red) and Soffit perimeter. Topt 1/3 Octave Reverse.
The walls/ceiling is plasterboard and the building is an all wooden structure. The floors are also wood. I would say there is some bass leakage for sure.

Quote:
Pic 3 below (and large) your meas.no 20
Now we have to find the Non resonant- "one bounce"- (SBIR) reflections that creates the holes (80 & 105Hz) in the Wavelet plot. Possibly in companion with the above mentioned dip.

Linear amplitude is used which "focus"on the decay-slope of the first 12dB (50%) of the normalized peaks. Modal Bars attached along the freq axis (Red: Axial length, Gren:Width & Blue: Hight)
So this seems to be what needs addressing then, just these 2 holes? Is everything else looking relatively good? In terms of additional treatment, there are obviously few places left to apply treatment. The few that remain are; the ceiling in the middle of the room (behind the monitoring position), the wall facing the partition glass and back side walls.

The materials I have left are rockwool rw3 75mm and rwa45 75 & 100mm. I am currently constructing some panels with the rw3 that can be 75mm or 150mm. I could test a 150mm panel facing the partition glass and see if that has any effect. I am planning to mount a cloud behind the mixing position, using rwa45 which can range from 75mm to 200mm in thickness. The back side walls are a bit more up in the air.

Due to the soffit corner trap being at the door, it has to be able to move freely out of the way to get in and out. This means having a 150mm panel there for example, spaced a similar amount out from the wall, would obstruct this. A 75mm panel may work space wise but the effectiveness of that for addressing the problem here seems limited. The other option is diffusion as Witchhammer has suggested, my preference in this case being arqen diffusers. The acoustic panels would potentially help the sound for clients if they are sitting at the back of the room although this would need to be tested. I don’t know if diffusion at this location makes sense at all. It doesn’t address the problem here for sure but maybe will help with keeping life in the room, at the expense of clients sitting at the back as they would be sitting too close to the diffusion.

I am researching different slat options for the room (mls and 534 etc) but I’m really unsure about the best route to go down.

I really appreciate you taking the time out to help with this Ake

/GNA

Last edited by GreeneNoise; 4th April 2019 at 09:50 AM.. Reason: Formatted quote wrong
Old 9th April 2019
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreeneNoise View Post
...The walls/ceiling is plasterboard and the building is an all wooden structure. The floors are also wood. I would say there is some bass leakage for sure.
Would you mind describing the front and side walls in more detail? Like one, two layers of plasterboard, kind of studs, heavy outer shell? Just curious...

Quote:
So this seems to be what needs addressing then, just these 2 holes? Is everything else looking relatively good?
Yes relatively good.

I’ve been scrutinizing and tweaking your measurements for a while now
trying to figure out what happens and why...
E.g What’s causing the 60-130Hz broad dip and the 2 holes. Don’t worry about them too much. (Wavelet plots are quite sensitive).

So far my focus have been only on the low end. It seems like the weak lows are connected to position of speakers and listener in relation to the modal nulls.. hunecke mode calc



The possible ”suspects” are:

• Too small, shallow or too dense, soft Traps
• Lack of modal support in the "thin" frequency area
• Resonating walls/ windows
• Spacing between traps.
• Uneven Distribution of absorbing surfaces.

The generic soft trap GS advice:
Deep and large and of optimum GFR to deal with the LO-O-O-NG wavelength.
E.g Get the bass right!

E.g. To lessen the floor to ceiling null @72 Hz (mode 0.0.1), near the positions of listener and woofers (?) , one needs a good efficient cloud.

Where are the spkr and mic placed in your measurements in relation to the hard front corner?

RE: The WaterFall. L&R are fairly similar but decays very fast in the "thin bass" area.

Cheers

BTW. A new update REW 5.20 beta 8 just arrived
Attached Thumbnails
My control room refurb - what next?-gna-hun-modes.jpg   My control room refurb - what next?-wf-l-r-ovly-new-spk.jpg  
Old 9th April 2019
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akebrake View Post
Would you mind describing the front and side walls in more detail? Like one, two layers of plasterboard, kind of studs, heavy outer shell? Just curious...
It is a single layer of drywall, with 4x2 16” centre studs and the cavity was filled with rockwool. The outer shell is batton, counter batton, with western red cedar cladding. When the building was being built initially, a recording studio wasn’t going to be the initial use, hence the construction and problems like doors in corners and windows where they are etc

Quote:
Yes relatively good
Don’t know where my head would be at if this wasn’t the case


Quote:
The possible ”suspects” are:

• Too small, shallow or too dense, soft Traps
• Lack of modal support in the "thin" frequency area
• Resonating walls/ windows
• Spacing between traps.
• Uneven Distribution of absorbing surfaces.

The generic soft trap GS advice:
Deep and large and of optimum GFR to deal with the LO-O-O-NG wavelength.
E.g Get the bass right!
Well this is where I tried to focus my energy when doing this. I used loft roll, which should have a GFR around 5kpa, for the soffit along the perimeter and for the rear wall trap and corner soffits and had this all as deep as I possibly could. The soffit perimeter is slightly different on each side due to the air filtration system being on the right, seen in the attachments. The soffit on that side is 310mm and on the left it’s 360mm. The rear wall trap is 380mm deep and the corner soffits are 580mm. These are all as big as I could feasibly make them for the room unfortunately.


Quote:
E.g. To lessen the floor to ceiling null @72 Hz (mode 0.0.1), near the positions of listener and woofers (?) , one needs a good efficient cloud.
How would you define an efficient cloud? Or rather, how would I test to ensure the cloud I use is efficient? In my mind it seems it would be which material is used and what thickness is being used. Obviously using a super dense material at too great a thickness would be very ineffienct for this application. Is this what you mean? It is currently at 200mm thick but with packs of RWA45 I have, I can vary that from 75mm to 200mm. I believe there is about 350-400mm of space. A measure of efficiency may be found between the measurements of the cloud at 100mm and 200mm.

The speakers are actually sitting under the soffit perimeter and then the rwa45 extends over the mix position. You can see in the next photo that where the speaker is sitting is right at the edge of where the cloud is which leads me onto...

Quote:
Where are the spkr and mic placed in your measurements in relation to the hard front corner?

RE: The WaterFall. L&R are fairly similar but decays very fast in the "thin bass" area.

Cheers
The position of the speaker is right at the inner edge of the SSC, seen in the 3rd attached photo. The monitors are 59” apart currently. They can be tucked in further, no problem. I’m assuming this would be beneficial in that it will move them further away from the left and right wall boundaries? The mic is placed at the tip of the equilateral triangle so that I could achieve some sort of consistency with the measurements. In the final measurement I moved the mic in, where I would actually be sitting, which was the inside where the side panels are at the mix position.

Would you be able to clarify what you mean by he thin bass area? It isn’t a term I’ve come across.

In terms of where the build is sitting now, I’m unsure of how to go about addressing some of the potential issues raised here but I look forward to reading your response.

I will post more updates as I go. I am assuming that my plans to add a cloud, behind the mix position in the centre of the room, is still a good idea? At least to test if it has a positive impact.

Quote:
BTW. A new update REW 5.20 beta 8 just arrived
Ohhhh hopefully my now ancient OSX 10.8 can run it


As always I appreciate you taking out the time Ake
Attached Thumbnails
My control room refurb - what next?-5b041d5c-8701-4f5a-888a-57ed616a66b5.jpg   My control room refurb - what next?-d59a0295-5bdc-4c8d-8782-6f9089f443fa.jpg   My control room refurb - what next?-24251233-f483-4b23-9378-1e0db4b5b875.jpg  
Old 14th April 2019
  #19
Lives for gear
 
akebrake's Avatar
 

Checking

[QUOTE=GreeneNoise;13916200]... I used loft roll, which should have a GFR around 5kpa, for the soffit along the perimeter and for the rear wall trap and corner soffits and had this all as deep as I possibly could...[QUOTE]

I just wanna make sure...

Recap
As I understand it, you have added the trappings (in a symmetrical way) and measured step by step. Always L & R speaker separately. That’s exemplary!

I imported them in the latest REW (5.20 beta8) and numbered them, as they appeared in the Dropbox file. In that way they are easier to identify in the different plots (Pic 1 List of IR's)

Hope that is correct?

Best
Attached Thumbnails
My control room refurb - what next?-list-1.jpg  
Old 14th April 2019
  #20
Here for the gear
 
GreeneNoise's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by akebrake View Post
I just wanna make sure...

Recap
As I understand it, you have added the trappings (in a symmetrical way) and measured step by step. Always L & R speaker separately. That’s exemplary!

I imported them in the latest REW (5.20 beta8) and numbered them, as they appeared in the Dropbox file. In that way they are easier to identify in the different plots (Pic 1 List of IR's)

Hope that is correct?

Best
Yeah that’s it my man

*EDIT* forgot to mention, we are right this moment setting up to start applying the Dacron for under our Camira fabric
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