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small home studio treatment, need all the help
Old 15th March 2019
  #1
Gear Head
 

small home studio treatment, need all the help

Hello all good people,
im building my first home studio, been making music for years now, using headphones, now i will have one room to play with.

about 5meters long, and 2 meters tall

Im concerned about the acoustics of the room, im planning to build some panels, and bass traps,

What kind of rockwool or mineral wool to use? what is the best and safest ? ( im not going to sleep in the studio)

im in Europe, so i have options like Knauf mineralwool, Paroc, Isover, i dont know what thickness to choose and what kind of fabric would work the best..

how about Basotect foam to use regarding the ceilings? would it work?
I understand that the corners must be filled using some kind of rockwool for absorbing bass frequencies.

Any thoughts and help would be appreciated.
Old 15th March 2019
  #2
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Jason Foi's Avatar
 

Read this thread, and where it takes you
At what depth does fiberglass bat insulation become the better choice over rock wool?
And read the acoustic treatment reference sticky at the top of the forum.
Old 18th March 2019
  #3
Gear Head
 

Hello again

I need some information and advice regarding corner bass traps,

What is better solution to use panel or full trapping.

Example to make corners full of rockoow like this guy does YouTube

or make or buy panles like this and just put it in the corners YouTube

what is better option for small room?

What about this Knauf product? NatuRoll 042 | Knauf Insulation is it good to make DIY bass traps, panels?

Thank you
Old 19th March 2019
  #4
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Be careful of YouTube videos that purport to show you how to build or treat a studio.... I didn't watch those two, so I'm not commenting on them specifically, but in general the acoustic knowledge and the build quality shown in the vast majority of the "How I built my studio" videos on YouTube, ranges from just mediocre, to terrifyingly bad! With a very few exceptions, of course. Some of those videos show practices that are just silly and do nothing useful at all acoustically, others show stuff that would never meet any building code, and some are downright dangerous. Some even show construction that is illegal in most places.

So "caveat emptor" with those videos.

If I had dollar for every lousy "How I built my studio" video on YT, I'd be taking a luxury vacation in the Bahamas right now!

To answer your actual questions, you should really spend some time learning about porous absorption and how it works. You are asking questions that have no simple answer, because there is no insulation that is "best for every possible situation", and you are not providing enough information to help us identify what your situation actually is. It's sort of like somebody asking you: "Are apples better than fish? Or should I use salted peanuts instead? Which is better? Are grapes any good?". Unless you explain in detail what you are wanting to do, there's no intelligent answer to that question.

- Stuart -
Old 29th March 2019
  #5
Gear Head
 

Thank you for replays, i still dont find definite answer, what is better in small room corners, to make bass trap full of rockwool in each corner, or to place panels in each corners, witch means there are air gaps.

my room is 4.9 meters long, 3 meters wide, and 2.2 meters in height.

so ceiling treatment will be more problematic if im going to place panels up there, maybe some basotect foam with adhesive will work? to catch high frequencies.
Old 29th March 2019
  #6
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Jason Foi's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gedna View Post
Thank you for replays, i still dont find definite answer, what is better in small room corners, to make bass trap full of rockwool in each corner, or to place panels in each corners, witch means there are air gaps.

my room is 4.9 meters long, 3 meters wide, and 2.2 meters in height.

so ceiling treatment will be more problematic if im going to place panels up there, maybe some basotect foam with adhesive will work? to catch high frequencies.
Ceiling treatment is important. Axial modes run front to back, side to side, and floor to ceiling. The links i supplied teach you how to determine which type of fiber to select for a given depth and how effective they will be at different frequencies. They also teach you about different trap constructions and their effectiveness. When treating a control room, put all your effort into treating the modal range and the rest will fall into place. So, if your treatment is not effective below 200hz, youre not really improving your situation in my opinion. Read the measurement primers too, those will help you determine what your problems are, and where they're located. At a bare minimum, treat all wall to wall and wall to ceiling corners and first reflection points with appropriate fiber/depth.
Old 29th March 2019
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Foi View Post
if your treatment is not effective below 200hz, youre not really improving your situation
That’s the basic truth I took WAY too long to learn. A large number of 2” foam or fiber panels will certainly CHANGE the sound of a room, but the resulting “dead highs, uncontrolled lows” environment is not really an improvement and isn’t going to result in great tracks or mixes.
Old 31st March 2019
  #8
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Foi View Post
Ceiling treatment is important. Axial modes run front to back, side to side, and floor to ceiling. The links i supplied teach you how to determine which type of fiber to select for a given depth and how effective they will be at different frequencies. They also teach you about different trap constructions and their effectiveness. When treating a control room, put all your effort into treating the modal range and the rest will fall into place. So, if your treatment is not effective below 200hz, youre not really improving your situation in my opinion. Read the measurement primers too, those will help you determine what your problems are, and where they're located. At a bare minimum, treat all wall to wall and wall to ceiling corners and first reflection points with appropriate fiber/depth.
Thank you for the response Jason

what is the better solution for the back wall, to cover it all in wool? ( in my option Knauf Naturoll) about 50 -70 cm deep? when cover it with some sort of fabric.. room will shrink mote then.
Old 31st March 2019
  #9
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Yes, covering the entire back wall (and ceiling) is a really good idea. The thicker the better. Use cheap fluffy insulation rolls with a gas flow restivity of 3,000-5,000Pa.s/M^2

I modeled 50cm vs 70cm with GFR 5,000 and added a photo
Attached Thumbnails
small home studio treatment, need all the help-screenshot_20190331-093059_firefox.jpg  
Old 31st March 2019
  #10
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Foi View Post
Yes, covering the entire back wall (and ceiling) is a really good idea. The thicker the better. Use cheap fluffy insulation rolls with a gas flow restivity of 3,000-5,000Pa.s/M^2

I modeled 50cm vs 70cm with GFR 5,000 and added a photo
Thank you again for the response, i really appreciate your knowledge.

so more than 5,000 is not good? it will bounce low frequency's off?

if im planning to make triangle super chunks ( full of wool ) corners, do i have to make the same think on the back wall plus whole wall full of absorption.

And where i live, all the wool information is in λD this symbols, it means the same gas flow, you talking about?
There are different measurements like 0,037 W / mK or 0,040

and lastly i see in gearslutz air flow resistivity charts that Knauf Tp 115 is 5 kPa*s/m2 this one is available where i live, also Knauf naturoll 35 has 7 kPa*s/m2 its also available where i live....any of those knauf insulations will work good for my bass traping?

It uses some Ecose technology so it might be better on my health (of course im planning to cover everything in fabric) and thickness of the insulation? 50 mm 75 mm or 100 mm ?
Old 31st March 2019
  #11
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I personally wouldn't use anything less than 100mm. And get a bit of space behind it too if you can.
Old 31st March 2019
  #12
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Jason Foi's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gedna View Post
Thank you again for the response, i really appreciate your knowledge.

so more than 5,000 is not good? it will bounce low frequency's off?

if im planning to make triangle super chunks ( full of wool ) corners, do i have to make the same think on the back wall plus whole wall full of absorption.

And where i live, all the wool information is in λD this symbols, it means the same gas flow, you talking about?
There are different measurements like 0,037 W / mK or 0,040

and lastly i see in gearslutz air flow resistivity charts that Knauf Tp 115 is 5 kPa*s/m2 this one is available where i live, also Knauf naturoll 35 has 7 kPa*s/m2 its also available where i live....any of those knauf insulations will work good for my bass traping?

It uses some Ecose technology so it might be better on my health (of course im planning to cover everything in fabric) and thickness of the insulation? 50 mm 75 mm or 100 mm ?
Yeah, for porous absorbers, lower GFR is better for LF absorbtion, but the thicker the trap needs to be.

If youre covering the entire back wall with thick absorbtion, you dont need to do the super chunks in the back corners.

I dont know what that symbol means, sorry.

Knauf tp 115 @ 5kPa.s/m^2 is a good choice for the back wall, and anywhere else you can put a trap at least 30cm (thicker is always better).
Old 1st April 2019
  #13
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Foi View Post
Yeah, for porous absorbers, lower GFR is better for LF absorbtion, but the thicker the trap needs to be.

If youre covering the entire back wall with thick absorbtion, you dont need to do the super chunks in the back corners.

I dont know what that symbol means, sorry.

Knauf tp 115 @ 5kPa.s/m^2 is a good choice for the back wall, and anywhere else you can put a trap at least 30cm (thicker is always better).
Thank you for the response

So for building DYI panels 7kPa.s/m^2 would be better (In my case Natu roll 035) for broadband absorption... Please correct me if im wrong.

And Using Porous Absorber calculator, air gap (when panels hang to the walls) is giving better performance, and this air gap must be achieved through out all panel ( i mean hanging it using two nails not going be enough) ?

Jason what you think about Caruso-iso-bond panels? for ceilings and first reflection points? those have great mid freq absorption figures.
Old 1st April 2019
  #14
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Personally, i would make all treatment a bass trap where possible. A porous absorber that traps bass will also tame mids and highs. I would make all treatment with a matrrial with GFR 5,000 and a minimum of 30cm thick. If there is an area that its impossible to put a thicker trap, then you can explore other materials.

I do not know much about caruso isobond, but almost all porous absorbers have good mid-high absorbtion.
Old 10th April 2019
  #15
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Foi View Post
Personally, i would make all treatment a bass trap where possible. A porous absorber that traps bass will also tame mids and highs. I would make all treatment with a matrrial with GFR 5,000 and a minimum of 30cm thick. If there is an area that its impossible to put a thicker trap, then you can explore other materials.

I do not know much about caruso isobond, but almost all porous absorbers have good mid-high absorbtion.
Jason hello again

Whats your thoughts on this article The Real Reason You Place Bass Traps In Corners (It's Not Why You Think) — Acoustics Insider

its says that placing poruous absorbers acros corners ( leaving air gap ) somehow works better regarding low frequencies.. is this practice better than super chunks in corners?

Thank you
Old 10th April 2019
  #16
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Jason Foi's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gedna View Post
Jason hello again

Whats your thoughts on this article The Real Reason You Place Bass Traps In Corners (It's Not Why You Think) — Acoustics Insider

its says that placing poruous absorbers acros corners ( leaving air gap ) somehow works better regarding low frequencies.. is this practice better than super chunks in corners?

Thank you
You do get a small increase in LF absorbtion by placing rigid fiber panel over a corner due to a membrane effect, but weather or not that increase beats a full fiber fill of appropriate fiber at a deep depth, i dont know. I havent seen much data to be able to say what is better. If i were making super chunks, i would do low gfr fiber, full fill at least 32" across as a bare minimum.
Old 10th April 2019
  #17
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Foi View Post
You do get a small increase in LF absorbtion by placing rigid fiber panel over a corner due to a membrane effect, but weather or not that increase beats a full fiber fill of appropriate fiber at a deep depth, i dont know. I havent seen much data to be able to say what is better. If i were making super chunks, i would do low gfr fiber, full fill at least 32" across as a bare minimum.
32 inches? or centimeters? sorry im in Europe im dealing with metric system.

lowest gfr fiber i could find is 5000, after your great explanations i understand that using 3000 would be better, but probably i will not find it in my country.
Old 10th April 2019
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gedna View Post
32 inches? or centimeters? sorry im in Europe im dealing with metric system.

lowest gfr fiber i could find is 5000, after your great explanations i understand that using 3000 would be better, but probably i will not find it in my country.
32" = 32 inches = 800mm sorry

Most fluffy fiber will be 5000 - 8000 gfr
Polyester batting will be around 3000 i believe, but you should confirm that if buying it.
Old 10th April 2019
  #19
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Starlight's Avatar
gedna, I built my broadband traps 120cm x 60cm and my corner superchunks 60cm along the two walls which gave me 85cm diagonally across the front of the trap.
Attached Thumbnails
small home studio treatment, need all the help-2378pasca.jpg   small home studio treatment, need all the help-2380pasca.jpg   small home studio treatment, need all the help-2454walltraps.jpg  
Old 12th April 2019
  #20
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Foi View Post
32" = 32 inches = 800mm sorry

Most fluffy fiber will be 5000 - 8000 gfr
Polyester batting will be around 3000 i believe, but you should confirm that if buying it.
Jason if you dont mind i will ask more questions

is Suffit bass trapping better than triangle superchunks?

I guess if my frame will be like 60cm to 60 cm full of knauf insulation and covered with some sort of fabric and just placed on both front wall corners where my window is.


and does it have to stand on some legs or just free standing on the floor?
Old 12th April 2019
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gedna View Post
Jason if you dont mind i will ask more questions

is Suffit bass trapping better than triangle superchunks?

I guess if my frame will be like 60cm to 60 cm full of knauf insulation and covered with some sort of fabric and just placed on both front wall corners where my window is.


and does it have to stand on some legs or just free standing on the floor?
Bigger is always better. A soffit will have more volume and surface area. Floor to ceiling is best. Even better would be to cover the entire back wall floor to ceiling
Old 13th April 2019
  #22
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Foi View Post
Bigger is always better. A soffit will have more volume and surface area. Floor to ceiling is best. Even better would be to cover the entire back wall floor to ceiling
Thats my plan, back wall full of Knauf insulation about 70cm and front corners two soffit bass traps, and then first reflection points and ceiling, its my starting point.
Old 13th April 2019
  #23
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Old 17th April 2019
  #24
Gear Head
 

Roomle Planner

my room plan, maybe some one will have some advice and thoughts
Old 17th April 2019
  #25
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Just an empty room for me
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