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3D studio design, is it any good? Suggestions? Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 3 weeks ago
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avare View Post
Glad you are filling your spare time productively.

Do not think that you are even close to choosing final absorber design. We have not discussed ©Invisible Alpha yet just as one example.

Have fun!

Andre
I found a thread on ©Invisible Alpha and reading into it...


So I got the monitors/speakers and the microphone they look good. Photo in the attachment...

Although I have two question since everyone writes it is better to connect speakers to audio interface instead of a computer.

1. If I connect it to my audio interface, how can I then do the loop on my UR12 Audio interface when I try to calibrate room EQ wizard then since I only have two output RCAs? Should I just do the loop and calibrate it, then disconnect the cables of loop and then plug in my speakers/monitors. So room EQ wizard will still remember what it measured during the loop?

2. on my monitors/speakers it says "RCA unbalanced" so can I send audiointerface RCA output to my RCA unbalanced speakers input? My cable would be like 1 meter length... would it cause much interfenrence?

All questions are also in pictures illustrated so no need to read much

Sincerely thank you so much and I will definitely read about ©Invisible Alpha...
Attached Thumbnails
3D studio design, is it any good? Suggestions?-01.jpg   3D studio design, is it any good? Suggestions?-11.jpg  
Old 3 weeks ago
  #32
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Congratulations on the equipment!
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoobInAudio View Post
Although I have two question since everyone writes it is better to connect speakers to audio interface instead of a computer.

1. If I connect it to my audio interface, how can I then do the loop on my UR12 Audio interface when I try to calibrate room EQ wizard then since I only have two output RCAs? Should I just do the loop and calibrate it, then disconnect the cables of loop and then plug in my speakers/monitors. So room EQ wizard will still remember what it measured during the loop?

2. on my monitors/speakers it says "RCA unbalanced" so can I send audiointerface RCA output to my RCA unbalanced speakers input? My cable would be like 1 meter length... would it cause much interfenrence?

All questions are also in pictures illustrated so no need to read much

Sincerely thank you so much and I will definitely read about ©Invisible Alpha...
1. Calibration is done with the headphone output of the interface. See PDF page 20 of the help file, attached.

2. Yes.

Enjoy!

Andre
Attached Files
File Type: pdf REW help 5 19.pdf (11.72 MB, 3 views)
Old 3 weeks ago
  #33
Here for the gear
 

I would add more absorption at the back of your room to weaken early reflection between your left speaker and back wall
Attached Thumbnails
3D studio design, is it any good? Suggestions?-img_20190222_000103.jpg  
Old 3 weeks ago
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puukij View Post
I would add more absorption at the back of your room to weaken early reflection between your left speaker and back wall
Hello Thank you so much for the suggestion... Yes I will pay a lot of attention to this once I finish with testing room EQ.

However>>> problem my brand new monitors make so much noise it is weird.
I made a youtube video:

YouTube


I have no idea what it could be, I can literally hear noise as I move my mouse

(please forgive me for my room looks like an earthquake hit it, I have flipped everything upside down since past 7-10 days I am so into building this studio I made an entire mess of my apartment)
Old 3 weeks ago
  #35
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Try switching to balanced cables
Old 3 weeks ago
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Foi View Post
Try switching to balanced cables
not possible, my steinberg ur12 only has rca cables on the back as an output. :/

Further more,

when I use my internal computer soundcard with a trs cable and different speakers I still hear the same noises :/


Old 3 weeks ago
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Foi View Post
Try switching to balanced cables
I messed up my room, ruined walls with previous acoustic foam treatments that did nothing but absorb the high frequencies, I drilled 25 inch deep holes through my walls, threw out all my furniture and spend all my money to build this studio.

This will not put me down... I am going to cut ground wires in PC and speakers outlets...




If that doesn't work, I am leaving the cut wires so and then I am getting a new audio interface

Old 3 weeks ago
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Foi View Post
Try switching to balanced cables
yeah that solved the problem!!! I just shut down power in my apartment, opened them outlets and tore those ground cables away with pliers.

Crystal clear sound now!!! Today<<< measuring EQ of the room :D unless I get an electric shock haha

soo excited :D :D :D
Old 3 weeks ago
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoobInAudio View Post
yeah that solved the problem!!! I just shut down power in my apartment, opened them outlets and tore those ground cables away with pliers.
You tore out the ground cables from your electric sockets!? I'm not an electrician, but my guess would be that they serve a purpose and it's not a good idea to remove them

Far less life-threatening would be to Google "Ebtech Hum Eliminator" and invest in that or a similar hum filter box. I have a ground loop in my room that avoided all other solutions and the Ebtech boxes cleaned it up perfectly.

But yeah... don't go ripping out ground cables from your mains wiring. I honestly open this thread with some nervousness wondering whether you've yet managed to burn your house down, and I don't need that extra stress in my life.

"Fools rush in where angels fear to tread"

Old 3 weeks ago
  #40
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Ummmm.. how did we go from try balanced cables, to rip out your ground from your house?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Foi View Post
Ummmm.. how did we go from try balanced cables, to rip out your ground from your house?
Here, this what Tom Cruise said will change the way you see life:

YouTube


"Vincent : Look in the mirror. Paper towels, clean cab. Limo company some day? How much you got saved?

Max : That ain't any of your business.

Vincent : Someday? Someday my dream will come? One night you will wake up and discover it never happened. It's all turned around on you. It never will. Suddenly you are old. Didn't happen, and it never will, because you were never going to do it anyway. You'll push it into memory and then zone out in your barco lounger, being hypnotized by daytime TV for the rest of your life. Don't you talk to me about murder. All it ever took was a down payment on a Lincoln town car. That girl,you can't even call that girl. What the f*** are you still doing driving a cab?"

He said that to a Cab driver who wanted to start a Limo company but never got out of his way to do something about it.

I know it seems dumb what I did but I just felt bad throwing more money, I am literally broke, after spending everything for this studio. I think once I pay for the rockwool, I will have no money to eat for this month. I can't afford any more devices. I sold my motorbike and yesterday my phone and helmet. I would have to wait extra for that device without even knowing what was causing it. So I realized I'll just tear them cables.

Sadly my frenzy has come to an >>>end. Not by my own will. After almost 10 days of reading ordering stuff throwing out furniture drilling holes, designing 3D, I had to stop. Not by my own will... I actually didn't receive the Beyerdynamic MM1 mic to measure stuff. They send in a wrong one, vocal microphone lol so I will have to wait till Monday to have the Beyerdynamic MM1.

So I guess, once I get that mic, frenzy will take me over again... I just can't control it
I am just so thankful for all of you folks, If I had a chance I would buy you all drinks because for sure you have this love for acoustics and gear and it is amazing how helpful you have been. I am beyond thankful. If you guys ever need something about 3D designs or c++ programming you can ask me.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avare View Post
Congratulations on the equipment!
1. Calibration is done with the headphone output of the interface. See PDF page 20 of the help file, attached.

2. Yes.

Enjoy!

Andre
Finally got them cables and beyerdynamic MM1 mic...
Calibration to my UR12 gave me this...

I connected Headphone jack >> to >>> XLR mic input (phantom power turned off... I accidentally turned it on during one measurment). Later I turned it off.

So here is what it gave me... quite noisy at higher frequencies... what could it be hmm.
Attached Thumbnails
3D studio design, is it any good? Suggestions?-calibratioin.jpg  
Old 3 weeks ago
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avare View Post
Congratulations on the equipment!
1. Calibration is done with the headphone output of the interface. See PDF page 20 of the help file, attached.

2. Yes.

Enjoy!

Andre
Okay I got this now.. looks somwhat better...
Attached Thumbnails
3D studio design, is it any good? Suggestions?-calibration-2.jpg  
Old 3 weeks ago
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avare View Post
Congratulations on the equipment!
1. Calibration is done with the headphone output of the interface. See PDF page 20 of the help file, attached.

2. Yes.

Enjoy!

Andre
Hello Andre I've done my homework! Got them measurements!


Image 0:
How speakers were placed. I am unable to center them perfectly. The door is blocking away. They will have to stay this way.

Image 1:
Reverb time

Image 2:
The sweep test of the left speaker (the right one performs bad at high frequencies and was damaged during transportation. The bass on it works great though I have confirmed it with tests.)

Image 3:
The sweep test with both speakers turned on and it looks almost the same but because of broken right speaker it gets lower slightly and constantly at higher Hz.

Image 4.
Here I have attempted something on my own. I have no idea if this is possible! I experimented a little bit. I have placed one monitor where normally someone who does voice over or singing would be sitting (monitor replaces the singer or voiceover artist) and a measurment mic where a normal vocal mic would be. I ran the sweep test to see what distortion will room make to a voice being produced at that sitting position to that future vocal mic that will be there. This image 4 shows how it looks like and the image 5 shows the result.

Image 5.
sweep test created to simulate voice over or acoustic test when someone is sitting at the table and talking to a mic.

image 6.
calibration performed successfully for the UR12.

I have completed the room acoustics measurements and although I know there are some things that could be done better such as putting speakers directly in the center, I have to accept that this room was not made for a studio and some things just can't be perfect.

So I am wondering now... What insulation to do and how to approach this?

I have everything ready. I even called a friend that will help me transport the rockwool.

What kind of insulation, where and how thick hmmm
Attached Thumbnails
3D studio design, is it any good? Suggestions?-image-0-speakers-moved-out-corner.jpg   3D studio design, is it any good? Suggestions?-image-1-reverb-time.jpg   3D studio design, is it any good? Suggestions?-image-2-left-speaker-test-working-good.jpg   3D studio design, is it any good? Suggestions?-image-3-both-speakers-test-high-hz-drop-because-damaged-right-speaker.-bass-performing-oka.jpg   3D studio design, is it any good? Suggestions?-image-4-speaker-instead-singer-measurment-mic-instead-vocal-mic-order-test-acous.jpg  

3D studio design, is it any good? Suggestions?-image-5-results-testing-when-speaker-placed-instead-singer.jpg   3D studio design, is it any good? Suggestions?-image-6-calibration-audio-interface.jpg  
Old 3 weeks ago
  #45
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I can't wait.... I started assembling those IKEA bookshelves... the frames at least... I got 23 of them I've purchased I got to assemble them.

The problem with them was that the shelves was that the frame itself isnt meant as a perfectly rectangular shape... when assembled as IKEA designed it, there would be a 3 mm gap above and 5 cm gap at the bottom. So I just let myself go, I took some power tools and screws I am screwing them the way I want to make them perfectly rectangular... Nothing will stop me from having them great sounds

Still have to think about their placement and rockwool thickness.

Luckily they will all be mobile, I'll just move them and test stuff if I have to do it all on my own. But I must be careful about rockwool thickness gotta make them righht decisions

Let's make this studio baby :D :D
Attached Thumbnails
3D studio design, is it any good? Suggestions?-20190226_162114-1-.jpg  
Old 3 weeks ago
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puukij View Post
I would add more absorption at the back of your room to weaken early reflection between your left speaker and back wall
Thanks for much for advice!! I left that out! hmm

Here are the frames I am building. Going to build some thick HUGE serious amount of absorption !!

Gonna keep building them through the night!!!


policing those low frequencies

Please check my measurements above and let me know what you think how thick rockwool and where should be... Thanks a lot to everyone! I am going towards to goal
Attached Thumbnails
3D studio design, is it any good? Suggestions?-20190226_215739-1-.jpg  
Old 3 weeks ago
  #47
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I can't wait for responses so I've done some calculations on my own:


1. 33.6 m2 will be covered with absorption in a room that has 55m3 volume.
2. 15 cm rockwool 40 kg/m3 rockwool (maybe I should go 60kg) with 12 cm airgap on the walls.
3. 120 cm wide super chunk bass traps in the corners 80 kg/m3 rockwool (I took more dense for bass so it gives better absorption for bass even though because of acoustic impendance it will reflect some of the highs) Is this okay?
4. Reverb time at the moment is bad... Calculated with sabine formula and 80kg absorbtion over 33.6 m2 I will get 0.21 for 1k Hz reverb time. Decent for vocals... I think for vocals is 0.2 normal, right? I will be using less dense rockwool on the walls for broadband absorption but that will do the job better even better for high HZ and bass likes corners anyway and that is where I am waiting it with my 80 kg/m3 120 FREAKING wide bass traps.


Once I measure the room after this I will see some frequencies and which ones are still making trouble and then I will decide about plywood thickness and if I will need plywood panels behind my absorbtion panels. I will also be moving entire set of panels back and forth or making them oblique rather than parallel to others so that I can see what they do to the sweep graph.

I will also then think about diffusers


Wish me luck my friends!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #48
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Soon I will be done with panels...

Great thing about those panels is they are all mobile. I can easily take them apart, put on plyood turn them into helmholz resonators...

I will do modification after the initial treatment and measurement.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #50
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Hello Jason. Thank you so much for tunning in. That link about etc is a nice read. I appreciate your help soo much!

However I REALIZED when a noob like me wants to build a studio, there will be dozens of mistakes and almost non avoidable ones so So literally as a solution I decided that everything will be changeable and modifiable as well as movable. I am not building ANYTHING fixed or ANYTHING that can not be moved or changed.

In the attachment is the picture of the panels, all movable, easily opened to add more rockwool and modifiable to add perforated boards on the front or easily sealed and could be upgraded to helmholtz resonators.

The thing is, I want to sing in this room. What I would hear during the mixing is not that important to me. I mean it is, but more importantly I would value the sound I would record during some singing. What speakers produce and how it is perceived by someone sitting at the table in the center of the room, has very little to do with how someone standing at the CENTER of the room and singing to a mic AT THE CENTER of the room.

This is a sad reality, I am trying to have both things and I decided that singing is more important.

So for now I will do very basic things:

1. reduce reverb
2. create easily modifiable and mobile panels so I can replace wool thickness, move them where I want, or few modifications to add resonating membrane.
3. create broadband bass traps
4. Do the measurments after that and identify the problems.

After that, knowing what frequencies are left as a problem I could:

1. Seal edges and add perforated front panels to my bass traps to tame and aim those frequencies specifically that ring in the room.
2. Since all the panels are mobile, I can move the entire walls back and forth until I get what I want, I can make the entire walls non-parallel.
3. Bottom line is, I can open them and add more rockwool.
4. If they make the room too dry, I can add perforated panels to the front again to reflect some of the high Hz.


---- I will now look into ETC: Time-domain that you have shared.

---- As for the speakers placement and mic placement, once I build the panels I will find the perfect spot by tweaking and moving them around and then I will go extra miles with panels and helmholz bass traps to tame the frequencies that give me headache.

If you have more articles and ideas what is important I should check please share...

Also I am unable to find rockwool RW3 or RW2. All I can find is sonorock and it says Sonorock Stein Wolle (stone wool) WLG 040. Have no clue what that means.
Attached Thumbnails
3D studio design, is it any good? Suggestions?-20190227_204805.jpg  
Old 2 weeks ago
  #51
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To make my post shorter if you are tired of reading... the entire studio will be like lego. Easily moved, detached, changed panels, modified. Nothing will be fixed and non-fixable.

Here is a link to rockwool that I have found:
Rockwool Trennwandplatte Sonorock 140 mm Steinwolle WLG 040 kaufen bei OBI

Hm do you have any idea what it actually might be?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #52
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Alright Jason, you have saved my life once more!!!

I realized that I will have to take this slower. I got the book you told me about and reading into it before I order the rockwool

I realized that what I was planing to do would trap some bass at corners but almost all the highs and mids which were 10 db already lower than bass since bass has modes producing a peaks!!!!

So I decided to slow down and read more into this book.

I came to realization that a good acoustic treatment is usually diverse and a mixture of low bass and mid bass traps preferably with hardboard front panels and airtight wooden frames.

So I will have to rethink and reanalyze my frequency responses and appropriately decide upon how many panels of which kind there should be.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #53
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I get the desire, but slow down. These aren't decisions that can be made so quickly. Slow down and do the research before you just start throwing money away at problems you haven't even identified.

You mentioned that there will be dozens of mistakes. Proper studio design means that there will be NO mistakes, or at least very few. Certainly there shouldn't be dozens of mistakes.

The panels you've already built can't just be easily converted into helmholtz resonators. That requires specific measurements and then specific calculations to build them.

Again, you should slow down and be certain of what you're doing.

Last edited by Quint; 2 weeks ago at 05:23 AM..
Old 2 weeks ago
  #54
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I came to realization that a good acoustic treatment is usually diverse and a mixture of low bass and mid bass traps preferably with hardboard front panels and airtight wooden e.[/QUOTE]
Those are wrong conclusions.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avare View Post
I came to realization that a good acoustic treatment is usually diverse and a mixture of low bass and mid bass traps preferably with hardboard front panels and airtight wooden e.
Those are wrong conclusions.[/QUOTE]

hmmm but this is what Ethan wrote that he used equal number of each when he built his home studio

"One of my favorite types of bass trap is the membrane absorber, also called a panel trap because it's made with a wood front panel. One huge advantage of membrane traps is that they do not have to be very thick to absorb very low frequencies. Because the bass range spans about four octaves, most panel traps are designed to work over only part of the bass range. Therefore, you will need an equal mix of trap types, with one intended to absorb the lower bass frequencies and the other for the higher bass range. Besides absorbing low frequencies very well, the wood front on a panel trap is reflective at higher frequencies. So installing enough of them to treat a room properly for low frequency problems will not make the room too dead sounding at mid and high frequencies."

Hmm once I make my bass traps superchunks in the corners and once I see where the bass is problematic by measuring sweep again>> could I make those front hardboard panels for bass that range the way ethan did OR could I make a perforated front panel using the helmholtz calculator to tackle the problematic frequencies?

Hm I really could use advice now. I already built those H 180 cm W 60cm L 24cm panels. Not because I wanted those dimensions but because IKEA made them like that lol....

I don't know what to do now...My apartment is full with those frames and now what ahah I am lost
Old 2 weeks ago
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avare View Post
I came to realization that a good acoustic treatment is usually diverse and a mixture of low bass and mid bass traps preferably with hardboard front panels and airtight wooden e.
Those are wrong conclusions.[/QUOTE]

I still haven't purchased any rockwool or hardboards or anything...

All I have so far are the those frames 180 x 60 x 24

Old 2 weeks ago
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quint View Post
I get the desire, but slow down. These aren't decisions that can be made so quickly. Slow down and do the research before you just start throwing money away at problems you haven't even identified.

You mentioned that there will be dozens of mistakes. Proper studio design means that there will be NO mistakes, or at least very few. Certainly there shouldn't be dozens of mistakes.

The panels you've already built can't just be easily converted into helmholtz resonators. That requires specific measurements and then specific calculations to build them.

Again, you should slow down and be certain of what you're doing.


Thank you so much for tuning in... This studio building has been going on for quite some time now for me.

Yes I have built those panels but there was no other way for me. Those were bookshelves I purchased from ikea, they had dimensions already made. However why can't I just turn it into a helmholtz resonator?

I've found this calculator: Helmholtz Calculator

wouldn't it work? Am I missing something out here ?
Andre posted wonderful pdf files with panels descriptions and holes that should be made. A10 and A11

I just have different depth of my frames so I am not sure if my frames are suitable for it. The panels he has shown me were 18.4 cm deep if I remember good. My frames are 24 cm.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #58
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Okay guys I understand that I am a noob with little bit of saved money maybe heading to a dead end street.

I obviously have no clue where to go from now on....
I read so much but have no idea what is the appropriate decision.

I want a room basically for vocals...
So please guide me please guys help me... I'll mess up things big time if I continue like this. This is the final moment buying absorbtion of appropriate thickness.

1. If I have superchunks around 115 cm wide, what actual rockwool to use? Someone told me lower density is better for such big superchunks? What density to use for broadband absorbers? (please please do not just say "well density doesn't matter, what matters if gas flow resistance" and move on... If you actually say something like that, please tell me what is the appropriate GFR for superchunks of that size if density isn't important)

What if my superchunks are smaller and only let's say 60 cm wide?

2. Andre proposed A10 and A11 panels! He provided AMAZING papers how to build them and their instructions. PROBLEM: my frames were already bought and they are not the same dimensions as the frames described in papers. Hmmm so can I make something like those A10 or A11 with my 180x60x24 cm boxes I already have?

3. Other than superchunks in the corners, what thickness should I use for broadband absorbers and what density?

4. What reverb time do you suggest? Some self-proclaimed "guru" on another website told me 0.2 or 0.1 for vocal room! What the hell, I calculated I would need even more absorbtion! What the actual hell?! Later I read Ethans article where he says you don't want to kill the reverb completely. So what is the wanted reverb time for vocals?

5. And fifth question... I don't know man I am lost... just tell me what to do :( What panels to use, how to build them and how much and where to put them :D haha I know this sounds dumb but I literally read two books in these 10 days and hundreds of articles. It was not 90% it was 99% time designing, and yet here I am, have no clue what to do.

Old 2 weeks ago
  #59
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I had a great artist called Dino Merlin who's father to my friend look at my plan and he just laughed and said I should hire someone.

I mean what kind of help was that! Had I had money to hire I wouldn't have been doing this dumb stuff and turning my living room into this. I literally gave up my living space for this haha.


At least I figured something out I can contribute:

So I called Rockwool Austrian center and they told me
in Austria at Obi you can get:
Sonorock Steinwolle WLG 040 and I managed to discover it has density of 28 kg/m3
Rockwool WLG 035 has density of 40 kg/m3

They also told me at other construction companies I could find 75 kg/m3 that they supply them with I should go there and ask.


So please anyone help me out, God will bless you for sure :D One good deed closer to heaven haha
Old 2 weeks ago
  #60
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HEllo Anyone? Please help... I'm bout to ruin my life here :(
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