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Input on REW measurement Dynamic Microphones
Old 1 week ago
  #1
Input on REW measurement

REW makes me feel quite dumb.... So, I apologize in advance if I've cocked it up!

How does this look to y'all?

Thanks in advance...
Attached Thumbnails
Input on REW measurement-waterfall.jpg  
Attached Files
File Type: mdat Feb 9 11_43_54.mdat (1.70 MB, 15 views)
Old 1 week ago
  #2
Old 1 week ago
  #3
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akebrake's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bgood View Post
...How does this look to y'all?
Thanks in advance...
To me your measurement looks very distorted needs some "tweaking". Pic 1
Waterfall shows 60Hz notch and several resonances. (might be distortion or resonating objects. Window pane? Panels, drums?

It’s quite possible that conclusions about FR still can be made from your measurement (in spite of the 10-20% distortion). But it’s better to make sure the measurement is valid.

Try the following:
1. Skip the loopback. Not needed.
2. No ARC or other extra EQ in the signal chain.
3. Sounds distorted? Are you sweeping loud?
You don’t have to. Turn volume down.
4. Always measure Left & Right speaker separately. (L+R optional)
It’s quite common that one side screws up the response. Find the problem!
5. Check the gain staging. Headroom? Is there clipping in the system?
6. Make some new measurements.
7. What kind of mic?

Cheers
Attached Thumbnails
Input on REW measurement-distortion-too-high-.jpg   Input on REW measurement-wf-60hz-notch.jpg  

Last edited by akebrake; 1 week ago at 11:53 AM.. Reason: added question
Old 1 week ago
  #4
Gear Nut
 
Fred vom Jupiter's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bgood View Post
REW makes me feel quite dumb.... So, I apologize in advance if I've cocked it up!

How does this look to y'all?

Thanks in advance...
Can you post the energy envelope time curve, RT60 (RT30) and the frequency response graphs?
Old 1 week ago
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by akebrake View Post
To me your measurement looks very distorted needs some "tweaking". Pic 1
Waterfall shows 60Hz notch and several resonances. (might be distortion or resonating objects. Window pane? Panels, drums?

It’s quite possible that conclusions about FR still can be made from your measurement (in spite of the 10-20% distortion). But it’s better to make sure the measurement is valid.

Try the following:
1. Skip the loopback. Not needed.
2. No ARC or other extra EQ in the signal chain.
3. Sounds distorted? Are you sweeping loud?
You don’t have to. Turn volume down.
4. Always measure Left & Right speaker separately. (L+R optional)
It’s quite common that one side screws up the response. Find the problem!
5. Check the gain staging. Headroom? Is there clipping in the system?
6. Make some new measurements.
7. What kind of mic?

Cheers
Will do...

Mic is the new Omni included with arc 2.5

I measured with both speakers... I’ll do it one at a time instead yah?

I think I had the gain too high on the preamp
Old 1 week ago
  #6
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayPee View Post
+

Measuring Room Acoustics

if you want help, help you first
Old 1 week ago
  #7
Lives for gear
 
akebrake's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred vom Jupiter View Post
Can you post the energy envelope time curve, RT60 (RT30) and the frequency response graphs?
I had them at hand so here you are

Best
Attached Thumbnails
Input on REW measurement-etc-wide-0.2ms.jpg   Input on REW measurement-topt-t30.jpg   Input on REW measurement-fr-variable-smooth.jpg  
Old 1 week ago
  #8
Gear Nut
 
Fred vom Jupiter's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by akebrake View Post
I had them at hand so here you are
Seems to be a well treated room. ETC and RT60 look ok.
But the speakers could need some linearization I guess?
Old 1 week ago
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayPee View Post
+

Measuring Room Acoustics

if you want help, help you first
I heard you the first time you said the same lame BS. No need to repeat yourself.

Had that thread given me assistance I wouldn’t have started a new thread.
Old 1 week ago
  #10
Lives for gear
The RT60 says it all -- dead as a door nail, sucked out and lifeless as a rotting corpse in the ground. Pretty much exactly what anybody should expect surrounding themselves with mounds of Home Depot fiberglass/rockwool and expecting to "arrive" at something worthwhile. Been there and done that ! It's a road to nowhere.

Also, look at that canyon between 1Khz and 4Khz (where a LOT of the "musical content" resides in most modern genres of music). Think you can "compensate" for that like the Gods of mixing (The Masters) supposedly can do (in an alternate Universe called "Internet Disinformation Land") ? Ya know, those guys sitting in control rooms treated out the azz that cost them $500,000 to $1,000,000 to build that they didn't really need to spend -- because they could mix grammy winning masterpieces inside of a 2 foot cement pipe if they chose to.

Think again. In the world of mere "mortals" these things actually matter !

Last edited by sage691; 1 week ago at 06:28 AM..
Old 1 week ago
  #11
Lives for gear
 
akebrake's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bgood View Post
...I measured with both speakers... I’ll do it one at a time instead yah
You’ll get more information measuring L & R separately. Broken driver? Room symmetry? Then optional L+R.
(You can sum A+B afterwards within REW if you like)

If one measures both speakers together the Microphone have to sit ”exactly centered” (e.g. Equal distance within 1/8” /3mm from L/R tweeters) to get a decent measurement above say 2kHz...

I guess IK Multimedia also recommend separate measurements.

Quote:
I think I had the gain too high on the preamp
Quite possible. Check the Distortion tab in REW.

Best
Old 1 week ago
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by sage691 View Post
The RT60 says it all -- dead as a door nail, sucked out and lifeless as a rotting corpse in the ground. Pretty much exactly what anybody should expect surrounding themselves with mounds of Home Depot fiberglass/rockwool and expecting to "arrive" at something worthwhile. Been there and done that ! It's a road to nowhere.

Also, look at that canyon between 1Khz and 4Khz (where a LOT of the "musical content" resides in most modern genres of music). Think you can "compensate" for that like the Gods of mixing (The Masters) supposedly can do (in an alternate Universe called "Internet Disinformation Land") ? Ya know, those guys sitting in control rooms treated out the azz that cost them $500,000 to $1,000,000 to build that they didn't really need to spend -- because they could mix grammy winning masterpieces inside of a 2' X 2' concrete pipe if they chose to.

Think again. In the world of mere "mortals" these things actually matter !
I remember you... you were the one posting on my other thread... good to see you’re consistent with your trolling!
Old 1 week ago
  #13
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgood View Post
I remember you... you were the one posting on my other thread... good to see you’re consistent with your trolling!
Call it what you want, but the truth is simply the truth -- aint no gettin around it.

I guess some just have to lean these lessons the hard way !

BTW, there are some really good cans options these days. Beats the hell out of "driving blind".
Old 1 week ago
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by sage691 View Post
Call it what you want, but the truth is simply the truth -- aint no gettin around it.

I guess some just have to lean these lessons the hard way !

BTW, there are some really good cans options these days. Beats the hell out of "driving blind".
I just fundamentally disagree with your $1 million or bust room treatment... but, we’ve covered that in the other thread lol

Also, as covered in the other thread, I’m a session singer and musician and that’s the primary mission of this space and it’s perfect. That being said, I don’t think I’m terribly far away from getting the room tuned enough to mix... the giant OC 703 and safe n sound cloud I just built has made an enourmous difference.
Old 1 week ago
  #15
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgood View Post
I heard you the first time you said the same lame BS. No need to repeat yourself.

Had that thread given me assistance I wouldn’t have started a new thread.
No, you didn't hear me.

If you did, you would have seen I quoted a different thread.

You haven't took time to read how to do a proper measurement and how to present it (that's what these "BS" threads are about).

Insulting people and asking for help is not going to work.

Forum is all about sharing, you are obviously not here for that.

Good luck with your room though.

J.
Old 1 week ago
  #16
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayPee View Post
No, you didn't hear me.

If you did, you would have seen I quoted a different thread.

You haven't took time to read how to do a proper measurement and how to present it (that's what these "BS" threads are about).

Insulting people and asking for help is not going to work.

Forum is all about sharing, you are obviously not here for that.

Good luck with your room though.

J.
I’ve been pretty clear that I’m not 100% sure what I’m doing... hence the asking for input...

Your contributions to this thread are basically this... “here’s a link, instead of addressing the OP”. And to insinuate that I’m too lazy or stupid because I’ve not found the answer myself already... and then you get mad that I don’t find your contributions useful.

... but had I already knew the answer to my question I wouldn’t have started a thread to ask for input...

You talk about sharing... in this particular thread I’m sharing that REW is a bit complicated to jump into and that I’m not sure I’ve not messed it up... your part should basically involve you sharing your knowledge or insight as it relates to my query.

But, it IS Gearslutz... so I guess it’s expected....
Old 1 week ago
  #17
Lives for gear
Your answers are in the thread I linked. That's all you needed to start your thread in a proper way.

You want to jump to conclusions and solutions before determining the problems.

You are not unique, your room is not unique. All your answers has been covered 10000000 times over here on GS. You just need to read first.

Good luck finding someone to help you!

Last edited by JayPee; 1 week ago at 05:20 PM..
Old 1 week ago
  #18
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sage691 View Post
Think you can "compensate" for that like the Gods of mixing (The Masters) supposedly can do (in an alternate Universe called "Internet Disinformation Land") ? Ya know, those guys sitting in control rooms treated out the azz that cost them $500,000 to $1,000,000…
You have a strangely defeatist attitude. Some people here have created exceptionally good rooms that rival all but the best purpose-built studios. Here’s one of them:

My Listening Room

Quote:
Originally Posted by sage691 View Post
Been there and done that ! It's a road to nowhere.
And there we have it, the root cause. So you failed to successfully treat your own room? Well that sucks. I understand the frustration. But trolling other people's threads on Gearslutz probably isn't the best outlet for it.
Old 1 week ago
  #19
Gear Nut
 
Fred vom Jupiter's Avatar
 

But he prefers to discuss with the troll instead of discussing what could be improved. So I guess he just gets what he deserves.
Old 1 week ago
  #20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skol303 View Post
You have a strangely defeatist attitude. Some people here have created exceptionally good rooms that rival all but the best purpose-built studios. Here’s one of them:

My Listening Room


And there we have it, the root cause. So you failed to successfully treat your own room? Well that sucks. I understand the frustration. But trolling other people's threads on Gearslutz probably isn't the best outlet for it.
All of us have something or other that gets us fired up... not all of us troll out over it, but, it’s cool... I forget to just to hit the ignore button fast enough...

Snow is crazy as sh1t still, but, I’m gonna shovel out a path to the studio in a bit and re-measure!
Old 1 week ago
  #21
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgood View Post
All of us have something or other that gets us fired up... not all of us troll out over it, but, it’s cool... I forget to just to hit the ignore button fast enough...

Snow is crazy as sh1t still, but, I’m gonna shovel out a path to the studio in a bit and re-measure!
The funniest thing is that who you guys call the "troll" is by far the most knowledgeable person about CR acoustics participating in this thread.

Hit the "ignore" button at risk of your own peril.
Old 1 week ago
  #22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skol303 View Post
You have a strangely defeatist attitude. Some people here have created exceptionally good rooms that rival all but the best purpose-built studios. Here’s one of them:

My Listening Room


And there we have it, the root cause. So you failed to successfully treat your own room? Well that sucks. I understand the frustration. But trolling other people's threads on Gearslutz probably isn't the best outlet for it.
All of us have something or other that gets us fired up... not all of us troll out over it, but, it’s cool... I forget to just to hit the ignore button fast enough...

Snow is crazy as sh1t still, but, I’m gonna shovel out a path to the studio in a bit and re-measure!
Old 1 week ago
  #23
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sage691 View Post
The funniest thing is that who you guys call the "troll" is by far the most knowledgeable person about CR acoustics participating in this thread.
Respectfully, I don’t see any evidence of that in this thread or elsewhere.

I just see someone persistently telling others to “give up” on their room treatments because they’ll never be able to compete with $multi-million studios.

Does your expertise also extend to driving alongside joggers, winding down the window of your car and shouting: “Give up! You’ll never be as fast as Haile Gebrselassie?” Or attending bar gigs and bellowing at the guitarist: “Why bother!? You’ll never be as good as Hendrix!”

I wonder
Old 1 week ago
  #24
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skol303 View Post

Does your expertise also extend to driving alongside joggers, winding down the window of your car and shouting: “Give up! You’ll never be as fast as Haile Gebrselassie?”
If the jogger's feet are encased in 50 pound blocks of cement, and his competition are wearing top-of-the-line Nikes, YES INDEED I will roll down my window and shout at him "GIVE UP, YOU CAN'T WIN !!!!!!!"
Old 1 week ago
  #25
Had to dig out a snow path to get the doors of the studio open... will post REW stuff in a bit
Old 1 week ago
  #26
Latest REW measurements…

See attached
Attached Thumbnails
Input on REW measurement-waterfall.jpg  
Attached Files
File Type: mdat Feb 12.mdat (2.11 MB, 7 views)
Old 1 week ago
  #27
Gear Maniac
 

Do you have a frequency response?
Waterfalls are nice to look at but....
and there is a strange ridge at 60 Hz.

Is there a reason why people here only show the first 300 msec or so of the CSD response?
Old 1 week ago
  #28
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Jens Eklund's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bert stoltenborg View Post
Do you have a frequency response?
Waterfalls are nice to look at but....
and there is a strange ridge at 60 Hz.
The 60 Hz and 180 Hz (as it looks like) is most likely due to ground loops.
Old 1 week ago
  #29
Lives for gear
 
Jens Eklund's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bert stoltenborg View Post
Is there a reason why people here only show the first 300 msec or so of the CSD response?
No need to show more. It would only decrease the time domain resolution.


OP:

Looking only at the waterfall pic posted; the decay times are fine: more than a 30 dB drop within the first 200 ms.
Old 1 week ago
  #30
Lives for gear
 
akebrake's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bgood View Post
Latest REW measurements…

See attached
Still only one measurement. Is it L,R or L+R?
Still Loopback.
Any EQ or process inserted? (FR downward slope)
How is the mic positioned?

Distortion (THD) is better but hum components visible in noise floor.
Probably Ground loops as Jens suggested

Best
Attached Thumbnails
Input on REW measurement-mains-hum.jpg  
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