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Treating a Small Room - Primacoustic London 8
Old 7th February 2019
  #1
Gear Maniac
Treating a Small Room - Primacoustic London 8

Hi, guys I need some urgent help with completing a small room measuring 14ft x 10ft. I know it's difficult to perfect such a small room but it's what I have to work with at the moment. My monitors are Neuman KH120's.

My ceiling is dry wall, my floor is wood (pine) and my walls are concrete. I had the Auralex Roominator D36-DST before my build for years but never used it and now I'm finished, I'm being advised that this foam isn't the best option. A couple of my bass traps are even warped being in the box for years.

I went ahead and bought the Primacoustic London 8 kit which I intended to use with the Auralex kit and started installing. So far I can hear 1x1 cubes doing some work on the wall behind my monitors. I regret not purchasing the London 10 or 12. This is an expensive option however. From the London 8, I only have 4 36" long panels and 8 1x1 cubes. I intend to make a couple wooden diffusers from specs I found.

The regular Auralex DST bass traps I have are rated below the new ones and I'm wondering whether to go ahead and purchase more of the newer LNRD bass traps, building on what I have but that's if they are a good solution. Also, If stick with using the Auralex bass traps, I'll purchase the newer Sonoflat panels which is an improvement to the DST.

Does anyone have experience with the Primacoustic panels? Thanks in advance guys.

Last edited by musicminister187; 7th February 2019 at 08:53 AM..
Old 10th February 2019
  #2
Gear Addict
In my experience I'd chuck the primacoustic panels in the bin and build some DIY broadband absorbers. In a room that size there is no way that those panels are going to treat any remotely low frequencies. I have a similar sized room and built myself some 8" deep panels with 6" of rockwool in them (leaving an airgap at the back). My primacoustic london kit was pretty useless unfortunately.
Old 11th February 2019
  #3
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by theillusionist View Post
In my experience I'd chuck the primacoustic panels in the bin and build some DIY broadband absorbers. In a room that size there is no way that those panels are going to treat any remotely low frequencies. I have a similar sized room and built myself some 8" deep panels with 6" of rockwool in them (leaving an airgap at the back). My primacoustic london kit was pretty useless unfortunately.
Wow which size London kit did you try and what's the size of your room? I've also started discussing with GIK their recommendation. I'm also beginning to realize the Primacoustic is a bit thin but building my own is also intimidating.
Old 11th February 2019
  #4
Lives for gear
 
Temple of Light's Avatar
 

Start with these:
Acoustics Forum • View topic - Studiotips SuperChunk
In as many of the four corners where wall meets wall meets ceiling.
Cover with pegboard and fabric for increased low frequency absorption...
Then add soffit traps all the way around the room at the wall ceiling boundary.
Putting alot of insulation and or panels on the back wall is also a good idea.
Then do your first reflection panels, finish with some diffusion...and your well on your way...
To making some serious records and mixes...

YYMV

Light

Temple
Old 11th February 2019
  #5
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by musicminister187 View Post
Wow which size London kit did you try and what's the size of your room? I've also started discussing with GIK their recommendation. I'm also beginning to realize the Primacoustic is a bit thin but building my own is also intimidating.
I can't remember. I have a fair amount of the long ones and the squares. I got them cheap off eBay years ago and they've just been useless. At best I'd use them in the lounge to improve the sound of my TV maybe.

Build your own broadband absorbers using rockwool, chimera fabric and wood. Honestly I tried so many things and wasted so much money. 4" deep is okay, 6" inch is better.

With your London kit, this is what it's doing:



It's doing next to nothing below 400hz. All the strongest room modes will be below this frequency.
Old 11th February 2019
  #6
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by theillusionist View Post
I can't remember. I have a fair amount of the long ones and the squares. I got them cheap off eBay years ago and they've just been useless. At best I'd use them in the lounge to improve the sound of my TV maybe.

Build your own broadband absorbers using rockwool, chimera fabric and wood. Honestly I tried so many things and wasted so much money. 4" deep is okay, 6" inch is better.

With your London kit, this is what it's doing:



It's doing next to nothing below 400hz. All the strongest room modes will be below this frequency.
Wow, that's not good. The thing is I'm in the Caribbean and i'll have to order the wool and fabric and that's a lot of down time. Our project is a bit behind time and my room is almost ready with a few days left to complete so I was pushing for a ready made option. How about GIK acoustics?
I'm also wondering how will (2) 2" rock wools put together (making a panel 4") covered with fabric will work as opposed to the wooden frame. This is based on the Primacoustic design. Has anyone seen or tried?
Old 11th February 2019
  #7
Gear Addict
You don't need the wooden frame, it just keeps it all together. You could just wrap them in fabric like pillows but as rockwool isn't that dense it could end up an odd shape, also you don't want to compress the rockwool otherwise it'll change the acoustic properties. You just need a good depth over 4" with them so you could use 4x 1" rockwool sheets, or 2x 2" sheets, 1x 4" sheets. It doesn't really matter as long as it adds up to a decent depth.
Old 12th February 2019
  #8
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by theillusionist View Post
You don't need the wooden frame, it just keeps it all together. You could just wrap them in fabric like pillows but as rockwool isn't that dense it could end up an odd shape, also you don't want to compress the rockwool otherwise it'll change the acoustic properties. You just need a good depth over 4" with them so you could use 4x 1" rockwool sheets, or 2x 2" sheets, 1x 4" sheets. It doesn't really matter as long as it adds up to a decent depth.
Okay, do you know what Primacoustic uses? The back of their panels are hard enough to hang using only the brackets. I wondering if you cover the back with fiberglass resin if it would work that way.
Old 12th February 2019
  #9
Gear Addict
Yeah it's going to be nothing like that. Primacoustics panels are basically foam which is another reason they're terrible. You could build wooden frames with "legs" on them. Then you can just lean them against a wall.

Ultimately if you're going for convenience then stick with the primacoustics but you'll have bad acoustics in the room. If you want good acoustics you're going to have to do some more inconvenient options.

GIK have some good panels, there's some guys from there on here but you'll pay 3-4x the price of doing it yourself. People also make them on eBay etc. You just want Rockwool or Knauf filled frames with fabric on the front (which doesn't impact the sound).

Check out this website Acoustics Insider — Acoustic treatment techniques that actually work, without all the voodoo. and have a read it has some good information which is easy to digest.
Old 12th February 2019
  #10
Lives for gear
 
Starlight's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by theillusionist View Post
Primacoustics panels are basically foam which is another reason they're terrible.
Can I just correct one thing: acoustic foam is not terrible but because it is expensive it tends to be sold far too thin, which is why the absorption coefficient graph above drops off at 400Hz. If you have the budget to bulk up acoustic foam to 20cm (8 inches) then it will serve you well at lower frequencies.
Old 12th February 2019
  #11
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
Can I just correct one thing: acoustic foam is not terrible but because it is expensive it tends to be sold far too thin, which is why the absorption coefficient graph above drops off at 400Hz. If you have the budget to bulk up acoustic foam to 20cm (8 inches) then it will serve you well at lower frequencies.
That's a fair comment, I stand corrected. I think it's just such a scam with all these firms selling such thin foam, especially on ebay where it's sold as "soundproof foam". I've seen kids at university with walls covered in their dorms to stop the sound getting through to their neighbours.
Old 13th February 2019
  #12
Gear Maniac
What do you guys think about covering a from wall totally with bass traps and leaving the corners? Is this something that is done is certain cases? I got a quote from GIK and while it's a little over my budget I rather go this route because of the time left for our album release.
Old 13th February 2019
  #13
Lives for gear
 
Starlight's Avatar
 

GIK will provide advice, good advice, so make the most of it.

I really doubt GIK or anyone else here would recommend broadband traps covering all the walls and no bass traps in the corners. You could still have lower bass modal issues and, at the same time, have a too muffled general sound.
Old 13th February 2019
  #14
Gear Addict
You can just put a normal panel across a corner and leave an air gap behind. That way you’re not neglecting the corners
Old 14th February 2019
  #15
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
GIK will provide advice, good advice, so make the most of it.

I really doubt GIK or anyone else here would recommend broadband traps covering all the walls and no bass traps in the corners. You could still have lower bass modal issues and, at the same time, have a too muffled general sound.
Well, someone did. I don't think this is a bad idea. Because of limited space the two end bass traps (front wall) will have range limiters making them absorb more low end below 100hz. The panels in blue are bass traps, the green are broadband and the red monster bass traps. That broadband on the left wall will be swapped for a bass trap. What are your thoughts on this?

[IMG][/IMG]
Old 14th February 2019
  #16
Gear Addict
Behind your desk, I'd consider turning the panel in the middle on its side so it's level with your monitors. Then pushing the two sides ones so they straddle the corners.

In addition I'm by no means an expert on any of this lol.

This is my home setup, you can see how I've got straight panels but I've angled them to cover the corners. It's all DIY.

My desk is terrible for my monitor positions and reflections, I knew nothing about acoustics when I got it so the cushions are ridiculous but they just tame that a little and make my entire setup look silly.

Old 14th February 2019
  #17
Gear Maniac
Yea doesn’t sound like a bad idea, I’ll be testing the room then adjust for best results. I’m going with GIK and forget about my Auralex DST and Primacoustic kits.
I already believe that this thread has saved me from regrets and wastage of money and time.

Thanks you guys.
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