The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 All  This Thread  Reviews  Gear Database  Gear for sale     Latest  Trending
Stacking two pairs of identical speakers?
Old 19th January 2019
  #1
Here for the gear
 

Stacking two pairs of identical speakers?

Hi,

I am considering stacking an additional identical pair of monitors (inversed) on top of my existing set.
I am aware that this is suboptimal in regards to the interaction of the sound waves and that the wave guides are not designed for this, but is it THAT bad if the off-axis response is less important and some optimizations is attempted digitally?

My reasoning is that I'm holding off on upgrading, as I feel I need to spend more than I currently have to make a significant upgrade, however I would like to experiment with REW (room correction) and feel the additional headroom will be very useful as I do occasionally hit the max capacity of the inbuilt amplifiers in my existing set. I have found a good deal (used) that makes this upgrade way cheaper than any other viable options.
The monitors are mainly used for music listening in relatively tight sweetspot.

So in short; Will stacking two sets of identical speakers cause more harm than the increased output is worth?

Thanks.
Old 19th January 2019
  #2
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatGazoo View Post
Hi,

I am considering stacking an additional identical pair of monitors (inversed) on top of my existing set.
I am aware that this is suboptimal in regards to the interaction of the sound waves and that the wave guides are not designed for this, but is it THAT bad if the off-axis response is less important and some optimizations is attempted digitally?

My reasoning is that I'm holding off on upgrading, as I feel I need to spend more than I currently have to make a significant upgrade, however I would like to experiment with REW (room correction) and feel the additional headroom will be very useful as I do occasionally hit the max capacity of the inbuilt amplifiers in my existing set. I have found a good deal (used) that makes this upgrade way cheaper than any other viable options.
The monitors are mainly used for music listening in relatively tight sweetspot.

So in short; Will stacking two sets of identical speakers cause more harm than the increased output is worth?

Thanks.
Hello,

A french brand sold this type of mounting. The brand names Apertura and the model (discontinued) named double kalibrator.
Old 19th January 2019
  #3
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatGazoo View Post
So in short; Will stacking two sets of identical speakers cause more harm than the increased output is worth?

Thanks.
Likely depends on your tolerance for harm. The first thing is you will gain only 6dB of headroom at best.

Also have you considered adding some additional subs? This way you can get setup with some sort of crossover (minidsp?) and control the system.

Otherwise to give yourself and experiment with the stuff you already have, try to position your measurement mic so that you can measure both L and R speakers together in REW with no comb filtering. You will find that it's very difficult and in order to get the top octaves to sum the mic will have to be very precisely equidistant from both speakers. This is fine for Left to Right, but if you do it vertically as well that is how small your window would be (probably +/- an inch) where you wouldn't have comb-filtering in the top octaves...
Old 19th January 2019
  #4
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dinococcus View Post
Hello,

A french brand sold this type of mounting. The brand names Apertura and the model (discontinued) named double kalibrator.
Interesting device, though it won't correct for the issues that concern me - and I doubt I'll find one
Old 19th January 2019
  #5
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanC View Post
Likely depends on your tolerance for harm. The first thing is you will gain only 6dB of headroom at best.

Also have you considered adding some additional subs? This way you can get setup with some sort of crossover (minidsp?) and control the system.

Otherwise to give yourself and experiment with the stuff you already have, try to position your measurement mic so that you can measure both L and R speakers together in REW with no comb filtering. You will find that it's very difficult and in order to get the top octaves to sum the mic will have to be very precisely equidistant from both speakers. This is fine for Left to Right, but if you do it vertically as well that is how small your window would be (probably +/- an inch) where you wouldn't have comb-filtering in the top octaves...
Well, I obviously don't want clearly noticeable degradation of the sound quality. Subtle, measurable, but hardly noticeable with average ears is the kind of trade-offs I'm hoping for. Very aware of the potential for confirmation bias here, triggered by the lust for gear...

6 dB is quite a lot, in my opinion, when you are already well above 100 dB. Though I should clarify that it is not that I want to play louder per se, I would just like to play at the same level, but with the option of correcting a few dB digitally here and there.

A big factor that I suppose I left out in my original post is that I expect/hope that the doubling of the cone area (from 2*9" to 4*9") will give a noticeable increase in the physical impact of the music/bass. Often when I find myself pressing the amplifiers I'm not really interested in added SPL, but rather increased "feel" of the lower octaves.

I have considered adding a sub, but this will be more expensive (and I'm concerned about pairing and integration as the brand/line will have to be different). Also, my current speakers are flat below 40 Hz so I don't feel I'm missing a lot of the low end information currently. Of course the last 20 Hz would greatly improve the physical impact of the music, but I feel that this would simultaneously add new significant acoustical issues, as my room is not well treated and will remain this way as the room serves several purposes, other than housing my speakers.
The low sub-bass frequencies are also somewhat problematic when one has neighbors on all sides of the apartment.

But yea, I fluctuate between considering this a borderline brilliant and a terrible idea I appreciate the responses though, all additional inputs are greatly valued.
Old 19th January 2019
  #6
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatGazoo View Post
A big factor that I suppose I left out in my original post is that I expect/hope that the doubling of the cone area (from 2*9" to 4*9")
Well the big factor to keep in mind here is the center to center distance of the identical sources, relative to the wavelength of the frequencies that they are playing.

If you can achieve 1/4 wavelength center to center distances, the two sources will sum with no lobing (off axis nulls). As you move the two further apart the lobe free window becomes progressively smaller and smaller. A rule of thumb in speaker building is the speed of sound divided by the center to center distance equals the highest frequency that both sources should play together.

So if we say 13500 inches per second, divided by say 10 inches measured from the center of one woofer to the center of another that means those two sources should not play together above 1350hz.

I think that most likely with WTW style speakers you're asking for trouble here. How were you going to orient them?
Old 19th January 2019
  #7
Here for the gear
 

Thanks a lot for the reply, this is something I honestly was oblivious about... I will try and check the measurements and calculations later, but as the top pair would be placed upside down I suspect a distance of approximately 20 inches, center to center, between the woofers and 7.5 inches between the tweeters. The crossover point is @ 1800 Hz I believe.

EDIT: Though if I understand you post correctly I think I have been unclear; I meant going from 2*9" woofers in total (both channels) to 4*9" in total. So not a WTW design, but a classic 2-driver 2-way speaker.

EDIT2: Yea, measurements and crossover point was pretty much like I remembered. That's not good No orientation of the speakers allows for the mentioned rule of thumb to be respected, unfortunately.

Then again, the off-axis response is not much of a concern for me, though a too restricted sweetspot of course is a major potential problem.
Old 20th January 2019
  #8
Lives for gear
 

no way! - the only speakers which are intended for stacking/arraxing are line array devices as used in live sr; pretty much any other boxes getting stacked/array will mess up phase coherence big time...

if you're not getting your speakers to sound loud enough, you simply don't have enough rig for the gig. - by the way: nothing wrong with using a seemingly too powerful amp; in fact, i strongly recommend doing so while the other way round is to be avoided at any cost!
Old 20th January 2019
  #9
Here for the gear
 

OK, I'm starting to realize this is not worth the trouble. Too bad, as it would have been a super cheap way to mix things up a little, with the deal I found. I guess I downplayed the disadvantages and put too much trust in correction tools, such as REW.

Amp power is not an issue btw, as the speakers are internally bi-amped for a total of ~500 watts per pair. Again, loudness is not the issue as such, it's more about achieving headroom for digital room correction and increasing physical impact of lower frequencies/moving more air from added woofers.
Old 20th January 2019
  #10
Lives for gear
 

...get (or rent) a subwoofer then!
and there is a difference between using speakers/woofers with a larger diameter or multiple smaller woofers. also, i think your concept of 'achieving headroom for digital room correction' is flawed... - by the way: pls don't use this term (bad), all you can do is correct speaker response (good).

Last edited by deedeeyeah; 20th January 2019 at 01:52 AM.. Reason: edited
Old 20th January 2019
  #11
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
...get (or rent) a subwoofer then!
and there is a difference between using speakers/woofers with a larger diameter or multiple smaller woofers. also, i think your concept of 'achieving headroom for digital room correction' is flawed... - by the way: pls don't use this term (bad), all you can do is correct speaker response (good).
I actually did miss out on a Genelec 7070A at one point, thought at this stage I'll probably end up sticking with what I got until a high-end full-range upgrade is viable. Appreciate the input though.

EDIT to your edit: Sure cone area is not 1:1 between configurations, but in any case the idea in my original post would result in twice the cone area and twice the wattage, compared to my current setup. So of course more air will be moved.

And I would need additional headroom for the intended corrections. Naturally focus would be on bringing down peaks in the measured response, but being able to slightly alter nulls (i.e. adding additional amplification to certain parts of the signal) requires an increase in overall system wattage to maintain the current SPL.
Old 20th January 2019
  #12
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatGazoo View Post
I actually did miss out on a Genelec 7070A at one point, thought at this stage I'll probably end up sticking with what I got until a high-end full-range upgrade is viable. Appreciate the input though.

EDIT to your edit: Sure cone area is not 1:1 between configurations, but in any case the idea in my original post would result in twice the cone area and twice the wattage, compared to my current setup. So of course more air will be moved.

And I would need additional headroom for the intended corrections. Naturally focus would be on bringing down peaks in the measured response, but being able to slightly alter nulls (i.e. adding additional amplification to certain parts of the signal) requires an increase in overall system wattage to maintain the current SPL.
my critique adresses your idea of moving more air by means of using a larger surface, created from multiple speakers rather than from the dut - imo it's pretty much pointless to measure with one system and then switch to another (except for getting a very rough idea* - but for this, your current system might do; if not, i'm pretty much convinced that this is not down to the diameter of the woofers but you're either not getting loud enough to shake your room (not enough rig) and/or/probably lacking low end (rent a sub...)


* p.s. remember: you're measuring your speakers (and/or how they behave in your room), not the room by itself

Last edited by deedeeyeah; 20th January 2019 at 02:34 AM.. Reason: p.s. added
Old 20th January 2019
  #13
Lives for gear
 
audioforce's Avatar
 

I don't know if this makes any difference to anyone, but I would just add that, in several decades of working in studios, from crappy to top shelf, I have never seen anyone do anything like stack two of the same small speakers on top of each other to try to make one "big speaker".

Breaking new ground again on Gearslutz?



love,

audioforce
Old 20th January 2019
  #14
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioforce View Post
I don't know if this makes any difference to anyone, but I would just add that, in several decades of working in studios, from crappy to top shelf, I have never seen anyone do anything like stack two of the same small speakers on top of each other to try to make one "big speaker".

Breaking new ground again on Gearslutz?



love,

audioforce
This is not a studio, it is a studio monitor in a hifi environment. Not a common installation in hifi either, but several examples can be found (for one, you can examine the first response to my post, where a stand for exactly this purpose is mentioned).

Another example, with studio equipment, can be seen here; http://i1166.photobucket.com/albums/...8/e2e1931b.jpg

... Not that I'm claiming that these examples makes it a good idea in general.
Old 20th January 2019
  #15
Lives for gear
The most basic information needed to discuss speakers in a room are the exact brand and model of the speakers, the dimensions of the room, and treatment/furniture and layout in the room. We don’t have any of that, and only learned that it isn’t a studio in the last post.
Back to you, Gazoo!
Old 20th January 2019
  #16
Lives for gear
 
audioforce's Avatar
 

Pretty sure this is going to be the next big thing.

Used to be bass traps, now its stacked speakers. Its not going to matter what the room sounds like. If you have stacked speakers, you're in.

Just remember my predicting it, when it happens. I'm always ahead of the curve on this kind of stuff.



stacking my speakers [neatly] as we speak,


audioforce
Old 20th January 2019
  #17
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatGazoo View Post
Hi,

...THAT bad if the off-axis response is less important and some optimizations is attempted digitally?
The off axis response is most important than the axis response and you can not change that with digital treatement.

Speaker directivity / off axis response: theory and measurement techniques - Acoustic Frontiers


Floyd Toole - Sound reproduction – art and science/opinions and facts

YouTube
Old 20th January 2019
  #18
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman View Post
The most basic information needed to discuss speakers in a room are the exact brand and model of the speakers, the dimensions of the room, and treatment/furniture and layout in the room. We don’t have any of that, and only learned that it isn’t a studio in the last post.
Back to you, Gazoo!
How does the brand and model affect how identical sound sources interact and how problematic it is? Are you going to make specific simulations based on the exact geometries of the waveguides? The speakers are HR824's (and I've been on Gearslutz long enough to know how such details can derail the focus of a thread).
I don't see the point of knowing the room dimensions either, as this post deals specifically with the potential issues in stacking identical speakers and how they will interact (not how they will interact with the room).

It was clearly stated in my original post that "the monitors are mainly used for music listening in relatively tight sweetspot", which should clearly indicate (to most attentive readers, anyway) that this is not a studio. Later (and prior to the post you claim informed readers that I'm not discussing a sudio) it was once again stressed that this is not a studio by noting that "my room is not well treated and will remain this way as the room serves several purposes, other than housing my speakers".

Back to you...
Old 20th January 2019
  #19
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioforce View Post
Pretty sure this is going to be the next big thing.

Used to be bass traps, now its stacked speakers. Its not going to matter what the room sounds like. If you have stacked speakers, you're in.

Just remember my predicting it, when it happens. I'm always ahead of the curve on this kind of stuff.



stacking my speakers [neatly] as we speak,


audioforce
Just stop.

You were ignorant to the fact that this type of stacking is not unique, which made your joke about me making it up myself and "breaking new ground" fall flat. Your continued attempts at being slick helps no one.
A person who has worked "several decades" in any business should be old enough to have better things to fill their life than poorly executed jokes, on behalf of strangers on the internet.
Old 20th January 2019
  #20
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dinococcus View Post
The off axis response is most important than the axis response and you can not change that with digital treatement.

Speaker directivity / off axis response: theory and measurement techniques - Acoustic Frontiers


Floyd Toole - Sound reproduction – art and science/opinions and facts

YouTube
Thanks for link, I will check it out.
Old 20th January 2019
  #21
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatGazoo View Post
The speakers are HR824's...
Thanks for the information.
Since your thread is essentially about SPL and low frequency impact in your room, knowing the woofer size, specs, and acoustic output over frequency range of your speakers, and the size and acoustics of your room would seem on point.
Apparently you think not.
It’s your thread.
Carry on and good luck.
Old 20th January 2019
  #22
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman View Post
Thanks for the information.
Since your thread is essentially about SPL and low frequency impact in your room, knowing the woofer size, specs, and acoustic output over frequency range of your speakers, and the size and acoustics of your room would seem on point.
Apparently you think not.
It’s your thread.
Carry on and good luck.
I would agree if changing the current acoustics and/or room dimensions was an option. As stated this room serves multiple purposes, prohibiting further treatment of the room. Thus, the factors I am in control of and can change at this point in time is the sound sources. Completely replacing my current speakers is not an option currently and so this idea was examined due to the low cost and my apparent lack of knowledge of the multitude of drawbacks, despite seeing the installation elsewhere.
Old 20th January 2019
  #23
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatGazoo View Post
I would agree if changing the current acoustics and/or room dimensions was an option. As stated this room serves multiple purposes, prohibiting further treatment of the room. Thus, the factors I am in control of and can change at this point in time is the sound sources. Completely replacing my current speakers is not an option currently and so this idea was examined due to the low cost and my apparent lack of knowledge of the multitude of drawbacks, despite seeing the installation elsewhere.
The request for certain parameters isn’t a direct or implied suggestion that you should or could change those parameters.
It is an attempt to understand those parameters in order to give meaningful advice on the question you post.
As extreme examples, if you are going to stack Auratones in a closet vs. stacking Augsperger double 15s in a great room, advice could be appropriate to the situation. Advice won’t be on target regarding just “some speakers in some room”.
Old 20th January 2019
  #24
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman View Post
The request for certain parameters isn’t a direct or implied suggestion that you should or could change those parameters.
It is an attempt to understand those parameters in order to give meaningful advice on the question you post.
As extreme examples, if you are going to stack Auratones in a closet vs. stacking Augsperger double 15s in a great room, advice could be appropriate to the situation. Advice won’t be on target regarding just “some speakers in some room”.
Room is approx 16*20 feet. Damping is from a lot of soft furniture and carpets on parts of the wooden floor. Back wall (speakers play on the short axis of the room) is completely covered by ceiling-high bookshelves stuffed with hundreds of books. One side wall is glass (and can be covered by curtains) and the other is mostly covered by asymmetric dense wooden cabinets. This is very far from optimal conditions, but it is how it has to be. Room is, as mentioned for casual listening, not work. I have not measured the current room acoustics.

But as indicated by the post by RyanC, even if my environment was optimal the interactions between two pairs of speakers, with the center-to-center distances in question, seems to bring a lot of issues.
Old 20th January 2019
  #25
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatGazoo View Post
Room is approx 16*20 feet. Damping is from a lot of soft furniture and carpets

as indicated by the post by RyanC, even if my environment was optimal the interactions between two pairs of speakers, with the center-to-center distances in question, seems to bring a lot of issues.
You can test whether your original idea would work to your satisfaction. It is relatively easy and involves zero expense.
You already have two identical speakers. Remove one from its current position. Stack that speaker on the other speaker. Then send identical mono signals to both speakers. Turn one channel on and off. If you prefer “on”, you like the increase in bass and level, and are not put off by the subjective (to you) effects of the technical problems posted by others. If you prefer “off”, you are hearing some clarity that you miss in the “on” condition, despite the addition level and bass of “on”.
Your speakers are large enough and your room is large enough that you should get the improvements you want in headroom and bottom end. (That’s why I asked about them) Since you are not mixing, the theoretical problems aren’t a consideration unless you can clearly hear them as a problem.
Old 20th January 2019
  #26
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman View Post
You can test whether your original idea would work to your satisfaction. It is relatively easy and involves zero expense.
You already have two identical speakers. Remove one from its current position. Stack that speaker on the other speaker. Then send identical mono signals to both speakers. Turn one channel on and off. If you prefer “on”, you like the increase in bass and level, and are not put off by the subjective (to you) effects of the technical problems posted by others. If you prefer “off”, you are hearing some clarity that you miss in the “on” condition, despite the addition level and bass of “on”.
Your speakers are large enough and your room is large enough that you should get the improvements you want in headroom and bottom end. (That’s why I asked about them) Since you are not mixing, the theoretical problems aren’t a consideration unless you can clearly hear them as a problem.
I suppose that would be an easy and pragmatic way of testing it out a bit (if the dB volume scale on my DAC is to be trusted, and I can do a 3 dB correction I should be able to do a good test on details without the loudness simply swaying me as well).
I'm just a bit hesitant in trusting my ears, if the configuration really wreaks considerable havoc in the response (it might take many hours of listening before a minor, but significant, issue reveals itself, if one is unsure of what to look for).

But thanks for the suggestion and I apologize if my initial response seemed unappreciative. My impression of the posts from "audioforce" may have bled into my interpretation of your first reply. Sorry for that.
Old 20th January 2019
  #27
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatGazoo View Post
I can do a 3 dB correction

I'm just a bit hesitant in trusting my ears, if the configuration really wreaks considerable havoc

I apologize if my initial response seemed unappreciative.
1. With a level adjustment, it becomes a reasonably valid AB comparison for perceived audio quality. If someone else did the switching without you knowing which is which, it would be even more valid. I’d enjoy hearing the comparison. I have no prediction what it would sound like. If you do it, report back.
2. This is audio, purely for your listening enjoyment. You absolutely CAN trust your ears. They and your brain are the primary and ultimate audience in this case. That’s what a listening room is for.
3. I appreciate your apology, it is a rare and valued thing on this site. Not necessary and certainly not expected, so thank you.
Old 21st January 2019
  #28
Lives for gear
 
audioforce's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatGazoo View Post
Just stop.

You were ignorant to the fact that this type of stacking is not unique, which made your joke about me making it up myself and "breaking new ground" fall flat. Your continued attempts at being slick helps no one.
A person who has worked "several decades" in any business should be old enough to have better things to fill their life than poorly executed jokes, on behalf of strangers on the internet.
No. You stop. I'm not ignorant to anything you're talking about, or trying to talk about. You're posting ridiculousness on a Studio Design Forum, when your query has nothing to do with Studio Design. This is Gearslutz and you need to be ready for light-hearted responses when you post crazy stuff.

I meant you no harm. And there have even been some people who humored your nonsense to a point. But its nonsense. The only speakers that are "stackable" are those designed to be stacked. Someone else told you that early on, I believe, and I actually believe you probably already knew that to begin with.

So you are trying to figure out how to annoy your neighbors with even louder music than the "over 100dB" you're already torturing them with. Or you're trying to have more power to you can "digitally correct"? Great plan. You're going to create all kinds of sonic weirdness beyond what you apparently already have going on, and then try to digitally correct it all? Yeah, stack 'em high and blast away, man. Or, actually, don't.

BTW, I didn't say YOU were breaking new ground. There's nothing new about your "idea". I asked, tongue in cheek, if WE [the group] were breaking new ground on Gearslutz. It was a joke, not an insult.

Yeah, you found a picture of some contraption some speaker company made to sell more speakers. Wonder why its discontinued? Maybe because its stupid and nobody does that?

Look, I'm not a Studio Designer, or a Speaker Designer either. But even I know a little bit. If you have speakers that are designed to be used in an array, that's one thing. But you don't. So that's that.

And it took someone with infinite patience just to get you even to say what kind of speakers you have, or what kind of room. WTF? Are we supposed to be mindreaders here? Then you go, "Oh, its not a studio and, way later, they're Mackie 624s".

What you need is just some good speakers, not two more of what you already have, to stack up on top of each other.

Maybe you could sell the ones you have [that you already are unhappy with] and put the money you were going to spend on "more of the same" together with what you sell yours for. And.....Voila, new, better speakers!

Yeah, just get yourself some good speakers and listen to them. That's my two cents. Or even just get a sub, as has been suggested numerous times.


Nobody was really mocking you, man. The "next big thing" bit is just an old running joke. Hey everybody! Stacked speakers, the next big thing! Who knew?

Whatever you come up with, I hope it works out, O.K.?



cheers,


audioforce
Old 21st January 2019
  #29
Lives for gear
Live sound vertical line arrays ARE a form of stacked speakers, and come from a practice dating back to at least the 60s of stacking PA cabinets that weren’t designed or intended to be stacked. In the 80s, Stevie Wonder toured briefly with a sound system featuring stacked Westlake Audio “double fifteens with a horn” studio monitors. Even in the studio, there is an apparently true story about a studio attracting a particular heavy metal producer by stacking soffit-mounted Westlake-type monitors for loud playback and mixing. He had a habit of driving single Westlakes to failure.
So stacking identical single monitors is not a fringe idea that is never done and has never worked. It might work for the OP, if he hasn’t already been talked out of trying it.
Old 21st January 2019
  #30
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman View Post
Live sound vertical line arrays ARE a form of stacked speakers
True but they are designed for it though, with a line source tweeter and even mids so that there is minimal lobing.

Standard dome tweeters are a point source and will not minimize lobing, in order to get a genuine line source from small point sources they need to be placed very close to each other. Like this-

CBT36K Line Array Speaker Pair Kit

In that case the curve of the array (also true with a J array) is additionally reducing lobing by aligning the narrowing directivity. With modern line arrays, significant DSP is also deployed to reduce, control and even steer lobing. All doable, but not trivial.

If you look at say JBL vertex, you can see the tweeter is a line source, and runs all the way from the bottom to the top- this way it creates a larger line array effectively when stacked without becoming multiple point sources that interfere with each other...
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump