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Room From Hell Studio Monitors
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1
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Room From Hell

It's not square and that's the best thing I can say about it. I've been reading here for a long time and have used many of your advice on trying to tame this beast. I'm finally seeing some light.

18'x10'-2" x 8 two walls cinder block, floor cement, other two walls 5/8 drywall x 2 with damp. The rear wall has almost 2 feet of fluffy in front of the cinder. The cinder side wall has been framed with 2x4 with fluffy and 5/8 drywall. I didn't build the room, or I would have changed a lot there, but it is what I am working with. The rafters were exposed and about 12" deep. stuffed them with 8' rockwool. Two doors in bad places... etc.

The goal is +- 2.5db All treatment so far is with rockwool and pink fluffy. I won't go into how much and where, but wanted you to have a look at the mdat.

I still have some work to do, but I think I can get close. One thing of note here the speakers are firing down the long way, but the speakers are not placed symmetrical. I found that the difference in walls made me think a little outside equidistant usual placement.
Attached Files
File Type: mdat JT-01-06-2019.mdat (2.55 MB, 44 views)

Last edited by thompsontechs; 2 weeks ago at 10:13 PM.. Reason: addition
Old 2 weeks ago
  #2
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270 views and 15 downloads and nobody has a comment? Does that mean good bad or don't give a damn.

We have some of the best in the field here, would appreciate your thoughts on the mdat.

I have zero experience and only downloaded REW a month or so ago, so anything you would like to say constructive or otherwise will be appreciated. Things look pretty good to me, but some of it, I'm not sure what I'm looking at.

JT
Old 2 weeks ago
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thompsontechs View Post
270 views and 15 downloads and nobody has a comment?

JT
I would make a comment, but it would be too depressing and you probably would choose not to believe me anyway. It's happened before around here, pie-in-the-sky DIY "dreamers" get their feathers ruffled and refuse to face the harsh truth.

Quote:

The goal is +- 2.5db


Honestly, with your treatment approach, and considering your starting dimensions, you'd have a better chance of winning the lottery.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sage691 View Post
I would make a comment, but it would be too depressing and you probably would choose not to believe me anyway. It's happened before around here, pie-in-the-sky DIY "dreamers" get their feathers ruffled and refuse to face the harsh truth.





Honestly, with your treatment approach, and considering your starting dimensions, you'd have a better chance of winning the lottery.
I know the 2.5db would/will be very hard, especially in this room and with my limited knowledge. That's why I posted the laughing icon. I am tenacious though and will work to get as close as I can. The numbers were scary bad when I started, about 25db, and I was told the lows would be almost impossible without some sort of membrane type targeted absorption. They are now within, what I consider, acceptable numbers.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sage691 View Post
I would make a comment, but it would be too depressing and you probably would choose not to believe me anyway. It's happened before around here, pie-in-the-sky DIY "dreamers" get their feathers ruffled and refuse to face the harsh truth... Honestly, with your treatment approach, and considering your starting dimensions, you'd have a better chance of winning the lottery.
Curious. From briefly looking at the mdat, the measurements appear to show:
  • Frequency response within approx +/- 4.5dB at 1/24 smoothing
  • Decay times very short down to low frequencies
  • Reflections down by -20dB or more with 20ms
  • Minimum phase seems typical of a heavily treated small room

…I’ve seen a lot worse here on Gearslutz. Unless I’ve overlooked something? I'm certainly no expert.

One thing that does appear out of sorts is the distortion plot. Lots going on above the noise floor. Perhaps an issue with gain staging or DSP trying to fill nulls by boosting.

Otherwise it looks very workable to my untrained eyes. Far from "depressing"
Old 2 weeks ago
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skol303 View Post
Curious. From briefly looking at the mdat, the measurements appear to show:
  • Frequency response within approx +/- 4.5dB at 1/24 smoothing
  • Decay times very short down to low frequencies
  • Reflections down by -20dB or more with 20ms
  • Minimum phase seems typical of a heavily treated small room

…I’ve seen a lot worse here on Gearslutz. Unless I’ve overlooked something? I'm certainly no expert.

One thing that does appear out of sorts is the distortion plot. Lots going on above the noise floor. Perhaps an issue with gain staging or DSP trying to fill nulls by boosting.

Otherwise it looks very workable to my untrained eyes. Far from "depressing"
Noise is a bit up when the furnace is running in the next room. Yes, it is very heavily treated. The plan is to try and get dark and then work in increments to bring back some of the highs. I don't mind a dark room... it should be said that this is a listening room not a mixing one. I will look at some vertical boards either according to John B or Boggy.

I have a corner trap to complete and have some door and side wall things I need to deal with yet. After that, I will try and lighten up the room a bit with some scatters on existing bass traps and again, maybe some John B or Boggy suggestion I have read here.

There is no room correction or filters of any kind being applied at this time. I do have a Lyngdorf 2170 with room correction, but I wanted to get the room as good as I can make it before I applied any correction or filtering.

Thanks for the input!

JT
Old 2 weeks ago
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skol303 View Post
Curious. From briefly looking at the mdat, the measurements appear to show:
[LIST][*]Frequency response within approx +/- 4.5dB at 1/24 smoothing
Yep, until the mic gets moved 8" L or R, Up or Down. Been there, done that !

But the OP is definitely FAR ahead of most on the DIY train -- you are correct about that.

I wish him all the best.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sage691 View Post
Yep, until the mic gets moved 8" L or R, Up or Down. Been there, done that !

But the OP is definitely FAR ahead of most on the DIY train -- you are correct about that.

I wish him all the best.

(Mic Move) Indeed, when I first got started if you sat in a head restraint for brain sugury and you were the only one in the room, you could have some great sound with very little treatment. The second you move forward or back, sometimes as little as 2" and you are in the middle of a null or SBIR. Since 99% it's going to be just me in the room, it is less of an issue, but with small rooms comes a small sweet spot and always near field listening.

The lows are much better now moving about the room, but the highs is where the problem is more pronounced. I understand where you are coming from. I would like to get a very good one person room and a good one for me and a couple friends. One bonus, is two of my three best buds wouldn't know if they were sitting in a 20bd null.

I shall keep working and post updates as I do. Maybe, when I get it to the tinkering stage, I can lay out a grid and do some mic moves to both show what you are talking about, and to help me know where the most problematic areas are when seating others in the room.

Don't worry about offending me, I will take what you say and study it and put it to use. Well that is if it's something that can be used. Your room sucks, isn't going to help, but something like, hey why does that thing ring as 313hz? That particular animal has me baffled. I had the speakers on both sides of the room and it's still there. I moved them all over the place and it does regress some, in a spot or two, but is still out of whack. I have contemplated that one for days and over several nice tumblers of Irish Whiskey, but haven't had an epiphany other than I love Irish Whiskey.

Thanks

JT
Old 1 week ago
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thompsontechs View Post
Noise is a bit up when the furnace is running in the next room.
I may be wrong, but I think the distortion graph is largely determined by the output of the speakers (obviously influenced by the signal chain) and isn’t usually affected by things like background noise. It’s not uncommon to have distortion peaks above the noise floor, but your plot shows quite a lot going on which might indicate some gain staging problem or other issue. Or it might not! Again, I’m not an expert.

JohnPM here (the guru behind REW) spotted a peak in the distortion plot of my own room which turned out to be a vibration from the speaker at a specific frequency, caused by a loose component inside the speaker cabinet - now fixed. I’m not saying that’s the cause in your case, just giving an example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thompsontechs View Post
There is no room correction or filters of any kind being applied at this time.
In which case your room seems very good. Nothing “hellish” about it! Well done

Quote:
Originally Posted by sage691 View Post
Yep, until the mic gets moved 8" L or R, Up or Down. Been there, done that !
Indeed. I think those kind of issues will always persist in small DIY rooms (and some large pro studio too, I would guess).

My own room has a response of +/- 4.5dB within 1 square meter around my listening position. It’s a small sweet spot, but it’s plenty large enough for me working solo as I don’t tend to shake my booty too much when mixing

NB: I use DSP on top of heavy treatment in this room.
Room From Hell-freq-response-average.jpg
Attached Thumbnails
Room From Hell-freq-response-average.jpg  
Old 1 week ago
  #10
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akebrake's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thompsontechs View Post
...The lows are much better now moving about the room, but the highs is where the problem is more pronounced...
What kind of speakers, how are they positioned and what kind of sidewall treatment?

Some photos of your room would help

Best
Old 1 week ago
  #11
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@ Skol303 there not a damn thing wrong with a meter for either mixing or listening. You can do the Stevie side-to-side and not be out of the zone.

I haven't studied the distortion graph to much and really don't know what I'm looking at there yet. I have been moving speakers here and there and the feet need to be replaced... I have a set of GAIA II to put on, but need to do some cement leveling/resurface in the area where my speakers are now. The distortion you are seeing could well be related to a less than solid stance of the speakers right now. When I get the area leveled out and the new shoes on the speakers, I will have a serious look at that graph and thanks for pointing it out. Now I have one more area to fuss over!
Old 1 week ago
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akebrake View Post
What kind of speakers, how are they positioned and what kind of sidewall treatment?

Some photos of your room would help

Best
Thanks akebrake. As I said in the post above, I'm kind of in the middle of some treatment and projects to a couple walls. When I get those sorted, I will for sure get you some shots of the room and maybe you can give me some useful ideas when I can get you more detail.

The speakers are upgraded (external crossover and hand picked caps etc) Tekton DI
Old 1 week ago
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thompsontechs View Post
You can do the Stevie side-to-side and not be out of the zone.
Stevie Wonder is always in the zone

Old 1 week ago
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skol303 View Post
Stevie Wonder is always in the zone

I was wondering if you would get the reference, obviously you did.
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