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Disproportionate Bass Trapping? Dynamics Plugins
Old 15th April 2018
  #1
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Disproportionate Bass Trapping?

Hello all,

New to the gearslutz community, thanks in advance for welcoming me in. I have a quick question. Yes I searched previous threads and have read a healthy portion of the stickied reference guide. My question is this: How would you tackle bass traps in smaller corners? See attached photos and you’ll see what I’m talking about.
Do I make smaller scaled down versions of the ones I would do in the normal corners? This obviously would not leave much of an air gap in these two smaller corners.
I mean not really concerned about the door opening all the way, as long as I can get in and out of the room, so this should give me a little more room to work with. Will different sized traps in 2 of the 4 corners create disproportionate LF trapping?
Thoughts and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Attached Thumbnails
Disproportionate Bass Trapping?-c7075414-c706-41ad-a3c6-6bff1eef8c61.jpg   Disproportionate Bass Trapping?-1f88f3ec-8c9e-4123-8ab3-28b3b6d5dee0.jpg  
Old 15th April 2018
  #2
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Where are the doors in the room, and which wall is your equipment on? That isn’t clear to me from your pictures. If both doors are on the two ends of the same wall, and if you can set up on the opposite wall, you can treat both of those corners the same and have more symmetry in the acoustics. Symmetry in treatment is a little less important for very low frequencies, but your trapping, unless it is membrane-based, will be more effective on high frequencies than lows,whatever your intentions are.
Old 15th April 2018
  #3
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Bushman, thanks for the response. I’ll post more photos when I get home, but no, the doors are on cornering walls if that makes sense. Like an L. Desk/monitoring position are not fixed yet, but will be either on the wall it’s on right now or the one behind it to make use of the use of the long side of the (barely)rectangle. Room dimensions are 10’x11’x8’. I know. You can’t polish a turd. But at least it’s better than a square? Hopefully.

In regards to the smallest corner, right next to the door (the other one is a closet), does it seem feasible to still make traps, albeit very scaled down? Where as conventional broadband absorbers are 2’x4’ if I’m not mistaken, that smallest corner would have to be something along the lines of 8”x4’. In theory does this sound like it could work?
Old 15th April 2018
  #4
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From what I’ve read, corner “traps” with such a tiny width dimension (and thus no room for depth or an air gap) aren’t worth doing. It would be much more effective, I think, to put a short (but full width and depth) corner trap above each door, or perhaps just a soffit-style large cubic trap above each door. I would add a rectangular trap to the back of each door, and make that trap as thick as possible considering the functionality of the door opening. Look at the GIK 2’x4’x10” Monster Bass Trap as a model. My suggested treatment wouldn’t perfectly match full ceiling-to-floor triangle traps in the other two corners, but it would get you in the ballpark for some symmetry in your corner treatments.
That’s my amateur take on what I see in your pictures. Hopefully some of the real experts can give you feedback on that idea and on your room.
I agree with the thinking that the room is not at all hopeless for a satisfactory mixing space. I am working in a room similar to yours that was completely hopeless, until it gradually got enough serious treatment added to stop being hopeless. My room can be improved I am sure, but right now it gives very reliable and translatable results.
Old 15th April 2018
  #5
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Thanks for the insight Bushman. I will look into those suggestions. Yeah I am fully aware of the capabilities of such a room, I know I can’t go all Blackbird Studios with it, obviously, but am just looking to get it reliable and translatable as you mentioned.
Old 17th April 2018
  #6
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Would the corner in question with the door be easier to tame if it was a front wall (ie right behind my desk), as opposed to the back wall?
Old 17th April 2018
  #7
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Since low frequencies become less and less directional as you go lower, the effect of swapping room position would have less of an apparent effect on lows than on mids and highs. I would hazard a guess that flipping the room would not give much or any improvement. Because of the doors being on adjacent walls instead of the same wall, there is no placement of the listening position that makes the room look symmetrical to a stereo pair of speakers.
Old 17th April 2018
  #8
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Will not being 100% symmetrical in that sense be completely detrimental, or would putting absorbers on both the doors bring me to a manageable situation?
Old 17th April 2018
  #9
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I'd put bass traps on a stable foot base that can be slid into place and removed when needed.
Old 17th April 2018
  #10
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Either solution would be infinitely better than leaving the corners naked or having your original idea of micro traps in two corners. Whichever gives the thickest and most complete coverage would be best. Johndykstra’s idea makes me think that full coverage triangle traps on casters might be a no-compromise solution to the non-symmetry problem. I don’t know if you have the desire, space and skills for that, but it is brilliant in theory.
Old 17th April 2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman View Post
Johndykstra’s idea makes me think that full coverage triangle traps on casters might be a no-compromise solution to the non-symmetry problem. I don’t know if you have the desire, space and skills for that, but it is brilliant in theory.
my only concern is that of safety. blocking an egress is generally frowned upon. just be smart. casters for a quick move is a great idea. keep the floor clear etc...
Old 18th April 2018
  #12
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Moveable trap huh? I kind of like that idea. May be a reasonable solution to my dilemma. Of course I need to follow that up with another question though. Are you proposing it be set up in a skateboard manner (where 4 wheels act as a base) or more like a moving dolly (where you must tilt it back to roll)? The reason I ask is because if I’m not mistaken, The traps lose effectiveness if sound can get around or under them? In a skateboard manner, sound would get under the traps. In a dolly setup, not so much. Or am I possibly juxtaposing an unrelating topic from my very new, amateur knowledge of acoustic treatment?
Old 18th April 2018
  #13
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No. A bass trap always has sound going over, around and under. An air gap between the trap and the hard surfaces actually improves the function of the trap.
A lot of people think sound treatment is soundproofing. It isn’t. It isn’t trying to block all the sound, it is intended to absorb and mute significant acoustic energy, but muting ALL acoustic energy isnt a desirable goal except in some serious acoustical test rooms. I think a trap that was a little loose on its wheels would actually be slightly more effective than a firmly anchored trap, because if it moved a slight bit in reaction to sound pressure it would add a slight membrane function to its absorption function. I THINK! Acoustic science and I are not close buddies, but this seems correct.
Old 18th April 2018
  #14
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Did I see right that rectangle traps going across the corner with an air gap is more effective than tri type traps?
Old 18th April 2018
  #15
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Glenn Kuras's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman View Post
From what I’ve read, corner “traps” with such a tiny width dimension (and thus no room for depth or an air gap) aren’t worth doing. It would be much more effective, I think, to put a short (but full width and depth) corner trap above each door, or perhaps just a soffit-style large cubic trap above each door. I would add a rectangular trap to the back of each door, and make that trap as thick as possible considering the functionality of the door opening. Look at the GIK 2’x4’x10” Monster Bass Trap as a model. My suggested treatment wouldn’t perfectly match full ceiling-to-floor triangle traps in the other two corners, but it would get you in the ballpark for some symmetry in your corner treatments.
That’s my amateur take on what I see in your pictures. Hopefully some of the real experts can give you feedback on that idea and on your room.
I agree with the thinking that the room is not at all hopeless for a satisfactory mixing space. I am working in a room similar to yours that was completely hopeless, until it gradually got enough serious treatment added to stop being hopeless. My room can be improved I am sure, but right now it gives very reliable and translatable results.
I agree 100%. Just to add the Monster Bass traps should be straddling the upper ceiling to wall corner.

BTW if you like you can play around with the following program to draw your room and place the acoustics in it. Still under beta right now so feel free to ask me questions. The acoustic products are under "brands" when you click on the plus button when working on the sketch.
Room Acoustics Visualizer
Old 18th April 2018
  #16
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johndykstra's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Kuras View Post
I agree 100%. Just to add the Monster Bass traps should be straddling the upper ceiling to wall corner.

BTW if you like you can play around with the following program to draw your room and place the acoustics in it. Still under beta right now so feel free to ask me questions. The acoustic products are under "brands" when you click on the plus button when working on the sketch.
Room Acoustics Visualizer
Very cool Glenn. BTW I recently assisted a client of yours hanging some of your masked treatments in a mastering room and I have to say I was very impressed with the quality of product.

To the OP question, I would have it mounted atop 3 or 4 swivel casters for maximum control. Don't fret the few inches of open space at the bottom. Make sure it's stable enough
Old 18th April 2018
  #17
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Glenn Kuras's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by johndykstra View Post
Very cool Glenn. BTW I recently assisted a client of yours hanging some of your masked treatments in a mastering room and I have to say I was very impressed with the quality of product.
Thanks.. BTW on that page you can draw your room there is also a app you can use your camera to basically draw the room for you. That one is totally blowing me away how it works!! Also you can do VR if you have the glasses.

YouTube
Old 18th April 2018
  #18
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John and Glenn, thanks for the input. Glenn, I’ll be honest I would love to outfit my entire room with your products, but as with many on this site, funds are a limiting consideration. I know DIY can yield very unsatisfactory results, which is why I am doing some major homework first. My budget is around $500, which would only get me a few panels of your stuff if I am not mistaken.
Old 18th April 2018
  #19
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I’m hiding my DYI panels behind and under my newer GIK stuff. To compare them, my DYI panels look like weird mattresses. The GIK stuff is very finished looking. My panels do something effective, which I can measure with REW, but the GIK stuff has published acoustic test reports that make it much easier to target the results I want and avoid paying for stuff that doesn’t address my specific issues.
Old 19th April 2018
  #20
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I spoke too soon, it appears GIK does have a basic room package that is around the $500 range. Granted it’s probably not 100% enough, it appears to be a good place to start and build on in the future. And the bass traps I can incorporate the ideas brought about in this thread.
Old 19th April 2018
  #21
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Glenn or his company can (and will) give you very specific advice as to whether the room kit is the correct purchase if you intend to perhaps add more treatment or combine it with DYI stuff. You might want to spend that $500 with GIK on some pro treatment that you would have difficulty DYIing, like an effective cloud and their hardware standoff for it (to get an air gap behind it).
Old 19th April 2018
  #22
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Gotcha. Very good point. I did the online form so I am just waiting to hear what they say. Pardon my noob moment; so an effective cloud is more than (or different) from a broadband absorber you would put on a side wall?
Old 20th April 2018
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanSiego View Post
Gotcha. Very good point. I did the online form so I am just waiting to hear what they say. Pardon my noob moment; so an effective cloud is more than (or different) from a broadband absorber you would put on a side wall?
Not really different, just harder to install, and since it is suspended rather than wall-mounted, DYI panels can tend to sag.
Old 20th April 2018
  #24
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Are drywall anchors the preferred method for mounting on walls and ceiling? The panels aren’t too heavy?
Old 20th April 2018
  #25
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It isn’t easy to answer that. How heavy are the panels, how wide are the extended anchors, will you seriously stress one of the anchors while trying hang the panels...
Old 21st April 2018
  #26
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I suppose GIK would have some insight into that matter
Old 21st April 2018
  #27
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johannburkard's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanSiego View Post
Are drywall anchors the preferred method for mounting on walls and ceiling? The panels aren’t too heavy?
I think the heaviest one I have is a Monster Bass Trap at 8 kg (IIRC). I only used wall hangers (with two nails each) and had zero problems with that.

The cheaper GIK spot panels are mounted differently and I used two nails for each of them (I have 60x60 cm panels).
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