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Soundproofing a basement studio Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 15th April 2018
  #1
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Soundproofing a basement studio

I am soon starting the soundproofing part of my studio. I have decided to keep the room as one whole unit (despite what some people have said). I would like to break the build up into two threads, one for this (the isolation part) and one for the treatment part. I plan to document the build and share with all you Slutz! The build will be in my basement and the size of the finished room will be 11.5m X 4.7m.

Now, I know the inner leaf should be completely decoupled from the outer leaf for best results but I am honestly not sure if this is considered "completely decoupled" or not since there is some contact with the concrete wall as you can see. Can anyone give me a better or different idea to consider?

look forward to your replies

thanks in advance!
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Soundproofing a basement studio-emptyroom-01.jpg  
Old 15th April 2018
  #2
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If your inner room is in contact with the outer room then you will not have the benefit of isolated assemblies.
Old 15th April 2018
  #3
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Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
If your inner room is in contact with the outer room then you will not have the benefit of isolated assemblies.
Ok I assume you did see the image? for you is that "contact"? Only the edge of the drywall sheet touches the outer leaf. The other option is something like this but this is a bit odd because the insulation is exposed. I don't really see another scenario so please let me know if you think it is wrong.

thank you
Attached Thumbnails
Soundproofing a basement studio-emptyroom-01.jpg  
Old 15th April 2018
  #4
Gear Guru
Resilient

Physical Gaps are used to prevent vibrations travelling from one solid to another. Resilient Caulk seals the gaps to prevent airborne transmission.
No touching please.....

Isolation is very much the big brother of acoustic treatment. Not easy.
But same as..... diagnosis before operating......

What is your Isolation Requirement? What spectrum of do you want to prevent getting from where to where?

Soundproofing | Soundproofing Products | Sound insulation | Acoustic Insulation | Noise Control | UK

http://www.venttech.co.nz/wp-content...012/WPG_NC.pdf

DD
Old 15th April 2018
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by attaboy_jhb View Post
... is that "contact"? Only the edge of the drywall sheet touches the outer leaf.
If you touch the outside wall with a large srewdriver and put the handle to your ear you will hear noises that the wall transmits. How small is the tip of a screwdriver blade? How much drywall did you want to have in contact with the outside wall? From your picture it looks as though you could make some small but significant changes to keep the ends of the drywall from being in contact with the outside wall.
Old 15th April 2018
  #6
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Make provisions for hvac somewhere. Under the stairs or make a room in the top right corner for hvac silencers. Ducts running in ceiling? Floating floor? I think its time for sketchup, my friend. Lets get a full to scale model going and build the shell, board for board
Old 16th April 2018
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
From your picture it looks as though you could make some small but significant changes to keep the ends of the drywall from being in contact with the outside wall.
Thanks for your reply. How about now? It doesn't touch at all but the insulation of the side wall is exposed :(
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Soundproofing a basement studio-emptyroom3-01.jpg  
Old 16th April 2018
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanDan View Post
Physical Gaps are used to prevent vibrations travelling from one solid to another. Resilient Caulk seals the gaps to prevent airborne transmission.
Yes but I thought that the air gap was between the wall and the drywall, I never knew there could be no touching anywhere. Anyway, how is this possible? A framed wall needs steel framing to get its support and so is screwed at least somewhere to the outside structure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanDan View Post
What is your Isolation Requirement? What spectrum of do you want to prevent getting from where to where?
Not too ambitious with isolation because it is quiet enough down there so am just looking for a decent improvement to what I have now.

Thanks for the links!

Last edited by attaboy_jhb; 16th April 2018 at 08:08 AM..
Old 16th April 2018
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Foi View Post


Make provisions for hvac somewhere. Under the stairs or make a room in the top right corner for hvac silencers. Ducts running in ceiling? Floating floor? I think its time for sketchup, my friend. Lets get a full to scale model going and build the shell, board for board
I am probably not going to have HVAC silencers (unless you can convince me! ). Was thinking of having just a normal Split air conditioner and switching off if I need to record something. I don't want to lose ceiling height as a main priority and if it means I won't have HVAC silencers then I can live with that.

Sketchup yes! How long do you think to learn the program?
Old 16th April 2018
  #10
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Starlight's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by attaboy_jhb View Post
Thanks for your reply. How about now? It doesn't touch at all but the insulation of the side wall is exposed :(
If you only leave a 1cm gap between the end of the drywall and the outside wall, fill the gap with backing rod and acoustic caulk, as Dan has advised.

Quote:
Originally Posted by attaboy_jhb View Post
A framed wall needs steel framing to get its support and so is screwed at least somewhere to the outside structure.
If the inner room needs support from the existing building then use decouplers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by attaboy_jhb View Post
I am probably not going to have HVAC silencers (unless you can convince me! ). Was thinking of having just a normal Split air conditioner and switching off if I need to record something.
Jason was talking about ventilation, not AC. A multi-split can provide the H and AC of HVAC but not the V. You need air to breathe; what are your plans for ventilation?

Last edited by Starlight; 16th April 2018 at 12:14 PM.. Reason: Spelling
Old 16th April 2018
  #11
Gear Guru
Serious

Quote:
A framed wall needs steel framing to get its support and so is screwed at least somewhere to the outside structure.
Not at all. The bigger the gap between the stand alone inner leaf and the outer the better. The floor and ceiling plates of the studding should be isolated also, neoprene strips, glue. Rod's book is the Bible here.

Quote:
Not too ambitious with isolation because it is quiet enough down there so am just looking for a decent improvement to what I have now.
Isolation is the big brother, you will need to specify. Doesn't have to be in dBs or STC. But we do need to know can you hear footfall above when you are in the studio. That might be enough to stamp NG on the whole project. Isolation is seriously hard to do.

Is the basement at ground level or below? You might get really lucky thermally.

DD
Old 16th April 2018
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
If you only leave a 1cm gap between the end of the drywall and the outside wall, fill the gap with backing rod and acoustic caulk, as Dan has advised.
Ok got it. Is there a need to use backing rod and caulk or will just one suffice?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
If the inner room needs support from the existing building then use decouplers.
Can you give me some more info on decouplers? At a store over here in Spain that deals with isolation and soundproofing they recommend using this tape in between the steel framing and floor/ceiling (see attachments, it is called "Banda estanca" in spanish). Is this what you mean?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
Jason wasn't talking about ventilation, not AC. A multi-split can provide the H and AC of HVAC but not the V. You need air to breathe; what are your plans for ventilation?
Ok well now you got me there. Doesn't a split unit also ventilate? doesn't it remove old air and supply new? If not then will obviously reconsider.

Thanks Starlight. You're giving me good stuff. Appreciate it.
Attached Thumbnails
Soundproofing a basement studio-11.png   Soundproofing a basement studio-montante-con-canal.gif  
Old 16th April 2018
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanDan View Post
Not at all. The bigger the gap between the stand alone inner leaf and the outer the better. The floor and ceiling plates of the studding should be isolated also, neoprene strips, glue. Rod's book is the Bible here.



Isolation is the big brother, you will need to specify. Doesn't have to be in dBs or STC. But we do need to know can you hear footfall above when you are in the studio. That might be enough to stamp NG on the whole project. Isolation is seriously hard to do.

Is the basement at ground level or below? You might get really lucky thermally.

DD
Football definitely!! How else can I specify without STC or DBs hmmmm.... when someone walks up there I don't hear anything but when my kids bang stuff on the floor I do. The floor is made of these bricks with a layer of concrete poured on top. Pretty standard around these parts.
Attached Thumbnails
Soundproofing a basement studio-bovedilla-25.jpg  
Old 16th April 2018
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by attaboy_jhb View Post
Sketchup yes! How long do you think to learn the program?
Some people use 3d programs that take time to learn. I think what most people are asking for, is a very detailed explanation of what you want to do with your space, and then do a few 1d drawings that have exact measurements. Simply put, the more complete information you provide, the better advice you will receive. As someone once told me, "explain it to me where I could build it myself, without ever seeing it in person".

Do a complete material list of your existing structure. IE: Basement is ground level, partially underground, completely underground. Open space is 12 x 16 from interior wall to interior wall. Unfinished room has 3 ac registers with 0 returns for airflow. Basement has open 2 x 10 floor joyces or solid concrete. Neighbors are approx 30 yards on 3 sides, etc, etc.

@DanDan See, I aint that stubborn.
Old 16th April 2018
  #15
Gear Guru
Structure Borne

Quote:
when someone walks up there I don't hear anything but when my kids bang stuff on the floor I do.
That is structure borne transmission. Extremely difficult to isolate.

Do you have space for a separate studio building? That might seem drastic, but a reasonably small light structure a bit away from the house would not require extensive engineered isolation, with all the extra costs associated with the increased treatment and HVAC.

DD
Old 16th April 2018
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by attaboy_jhb View Post
Ok got it. Is there a need to use backing rod and caulk or will just one suffice?





Can you give me some more info on decouplers? At a store over here in Spain that deals with isolation and soundproofing they recommend using this tape in between the steel framing and floor/ceiling (see attachments, it is called "Banda estanca" in spanish). Is this what you mean?




Ok well now you got me there. Doesn't a split unit also ventilate? doesn't it remove old air and supply new? If not then will obviously reconsider.

Thanks Starlight. You're giving me good stuff. Appreciate it.
No va a jalar asi. Nothing can touch anywhere. The inner leaf and outter leaf cant touch anywhere. The inner leaf walls must support the inner leaf ceiling, which all must be supported by the floating floor or decoupled concrete slab. Minisplit cools the existing air, no fresh air is introduced. Sketchup took me a few days to learn. Its not too hard.
Old 16th April 2018
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dana_T. View Post
Some people use 3d programs that take time to learn. I think what most people are asking for, is a very detailed explanation of what you want to do with your space, and then do a few 1d drawings that have exact measurements. Simply put, the more complete information you provide, the better advice you will receive. As someone once told me, "explain it to me where I could build it myself, without ever seeing it in person".
@DanDan See, I aint that stubborn.
Did you see the 1d drawing I did in Adobe Illustrator? That shows exactly what I intend to do.
Old 16th April 2018
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Foi View Post
No va a jalar asi. Nothing can touch anywhere. The inner leaf and outter leaf cant touch anywhere. The inner leaf walls must support the inner leaf ceiling, which all must be supported by the floating floor or decoupled concrete slab. Minisplit cools the existing air, no fresh air is introduced. Sketchup took me a few days to learn. Its not too hard.
You can't do that with steel framing. The steel frames must be screwed to the original structure in some places for support. Now what? This is one area I wish was covered in Rods book and isn't. It only deals with wood framing.
Old 16th April 2018
  #19
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanDan View Post
That is structure borne transmission. Extremely difficult to isolate.

Do you have space for a separate studio building? That might seem drastic, but a reasonably small light structure a bit away from the house would not require extensive engineered isolation, with all the extra costs associated with the increased treatment and HVAC.

DD
Nope. The studio is going in the basement. I think I am just going to go with what I drew up and take Starlights about leaving 1cm, caulking it up and then hope for the best

also I had a soundproofing guy here that works with the same materials and this is what he would so I doubt it can be so bad
Old 16th April 2018
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by attaboy_jhb View Post
Did you see the 1d drawing I did in Adobe Illustrator? That shows exactly what I intend to do.
I think he's asking for exact measurements. How high is the room? How long the walls are?

Is the basement totally underground? Is it underground at the front of house house and partially above ground at the back?

The 1D drawing is a very, very basic overview of the situation but it provides nothing to really go on. It's like saying that your car won't start and then posting a picture of the car.

Making a room even partially soundproof is no easy task and can depend on a lot of factors so the more information you can provide, the more specific help you can receive and the better your results will be.

Last edited by theillusionist; 16th April 2018 at 02:27 PM.. Reason: missed off info
Old 16th April 2018
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theillusionist View Post
I think he's asking for exact measurements. How high is the room? How long the walls are?

Is the basement totally underground? Is it underground at the front of house house and partially above ground at the back?

The 1D drawing is a very, very basic overview of the situation but it provides nothing to really go on. It's like saying that your car won't start and then posting a picture of the car
Exact measurements are 12.3m X 4.9m X 3m. The basement is totally underground and there is a driveway that goes up to ground level. There is a neighbor on one side with the same underground garage/basement. The walls are Brick/concrete and the ceiling is made from those ceiling bricks I posted.

Not sure what difference that will make so please help me understand that too
Old 16th April 2018
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by attaboy_jhb View Post
Did you see the 1d drawing I did in Adobe Illustrator? That shows exactly what I intend to do.
Yes I did see it. As you are going to learn in this community, or any other, if you do not provide the required information, very few people will hang around to give you advice, when they have to drag every single requirement out of you, one post at a time. The first thing you may have wanted to put in your first post, is what you want to do with this space.

Do you want to record in it, use it for mixing or mastering? Do you want to be able to use it for all three? Do you record head bangers or instrumental work and jazz. Here is a oldie but goodie, and yes, it has been asked and left out, "by the way, I live 150 yards from a train track that runs past ever 22 min, will I need to add more treatment"?

EDIT: I just saw your last sentence from the post above this one. "Not sure what difference that will make so please help me understand that too". I am not trying to be harsh, but everything makes a difference when it comes to audio. I just do not want to see you spend a lot of money and get very little in return. A friend of mine spent close to $20,000 building his studio in his basement. It met every spec known to mankind. When he recorded, it sounded like tinfoil in a microwave with nothing but electrical interference. He did not take into account the high tension power lines that ran 30 yards off the back of his property. Like I said, everything matters and the more details you can give, the better advice you will receive.
Old 16th April 2018
  #23
Gear Guru
Begin the Beguine...

Steel Studs are no different to wood in principle.
Underground will probably help keep the temperature down in the summer and warm in the winter. It is always 14 degrees underground afaik.

Unless there is vibration from a road or railway, there is absolutely no need to add an isolating layer on three sides. It may be wise to build a steel stud wall say 200mm from the wall shared with your neighbour.
It will be difficult to isolate the very Low Frequency sound of Footfall and football. Sound travels extremely efficiently though concrete.
I would start by modifying the floors upstairs. A little bit of resilient floating up there could work wonders, taking no height from your studio. But you will still have to hang a new ceiling on isolating hangers. Sealing it all around with Resilient Caulk. The caulking and backer rod and all that is in our Gervais book. You should buy the Master Handbook of Acoustics. And READ IT!.....
It is not as the name suggests, for Masters, but for beginners. But it is done so well that I still check things in it now and again.
The previously customaudiodesigns.co.uk website also describes in detail many SoundProofing Systems. But again it will not read itself.
I'll bet you are swimming in the sea today, here's your bleeding hangers....;-) http://www.customaudiodesigns.co.uk/pdfiles/40108.pdf


DD
Old 16th April 2018
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dana_T. View Post
Yes I did see it. As you are going to learn in this community, or any other, if you do not provide the required information, very few people will hang around to give you advice, when they have to drag every single requirement out of you, one post at a time. The first thing you may have wanted to put in your first post, is what you want to do with this space.

Do you want to record in it, use it for mixing or mastering? Do you want to be able to use it for all three? Do you record head bangers or instrumental work and jazz. Here is a oldie but goodie, and yes, it has been asked and left out, "by the way, I live 150 yards from a train track that runs past ever 22 min, will I need to add more treatment"?

EDIT: I just saw your last sentence from the post above this one. "Not sure what difference that will make so please help me understand that too". I am not trying to be harsh, but everything makes a difference when it comes to audio. I just do not want to see you spend a lot of money and get very little in return. A friend of mine spent close to $20,000 building his studio in his basement. It met every spec known to mankind. When he recorded, it sounded like tinfoil in a microwave with nothing but electrical interference. He did not take into account the high tension power lines that ran 30 yards off the back of his property. Like I said, everything matters and the more details you can give, the better advice you will receive.
Thanks but I am not looking for advice on everything. I am adding exactly 2 sheets of drywall to the inside of a room to help with soundproofing my space. It doesn't matter what the space is for, mixing mastering or meditating. It also doesn't matter what kind of music and if there is a train station, well the sound will have two more sheets of drywall to go through That is it. Just looking for the best way to use this material in my room to help with soundproofing.

I don't want to be too hardcore about this. If I said to you my budget allows for 2 X sheets of inner drywall in that space, how can we use it for best results.

Hope this helps you help me
Old 16th April 2018
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Foi View Post
No va a jalar asi. Nothing can touch anywhere. The inner leaf and outter leaf cant touch anywhere. The inner leaf walls must support the inner leaf ceiling, which all must be supported by the floating floor or decoupled concrete slab. Minisplit cools the existing air, no fresh air is introduced. Sketchup took me a few days to learn. Its not too hard.
This is what I plan to do and shows how steel framing works. the base is fixed to the floor and ceiling. You can't not fix it to anything
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Soundproofing a basement studio-1420854861431.jpg  
Old 16th April 2018
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by attaboy_jhb View Post
You can't do that with steel framing. The steel frames must be screwed to the original structure in some places for support. Now what? This is one area I wish was covered in Rods book and isn't. It only deals with wood framing.
You can build an entire building with steel studs. Why not a room? There are two types of steel studs. You need to use structural.
Old 16th April 2018
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by attaboy_jhb View Post
This is what I plan to do and shows how steel framing works. the base is fixed to the floor and ceiling. You can't not fix it to anything
That wont help with structure borne sound transmission. The base would need to be on its own isolated slab or floating floor
Old 16th April 2018
  #28
Gear Guru
Fixed

Quote:
the base is fixed to the floor and ceiling. You can't not fix it to anything
Neoprene strips and Glue.
Much bigger gap than 1.5"


DD
Old 16th April 2018
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Foi View Post
That wont help with structure borne sound transmission. The base would need to be on its own isolated slab or floating floor
I am not having a floating floor. Also there is this material that is generally used so that the steel doesn't touch the floor or ceiling directly
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Soundproofing a basement studio-11.png  
Old 16th April 2018
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanDan View Post
Neoprene strips and Glue.
Much bigger gap than 1.5"


DD
Yes, the strip is what I was going to use I think.

Does this look right?

Also, what is the glue applied to?
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