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Diffusion scatter plates - why does nobody sell them? Other Modular Audio Processors
Old 9th March 2018
  #1
Gear Maniac
 

Thread Starter
Diffusion scatter plates - why does nobody sell them?

I’m in the market for a ‘scatter plate’ that I can attach to an existing acoustic panel… only it seems this particular market doesn’t exist!

What I’m talking about is the type of plates used by GIK Acoustics on their Alpha product range (see image attached courtesy of GIK). It seems that neither GIK nor any other company sell such plates separately, which seems a little strange! (not dissing GIK here, consistently great products and service in my experience).

Surely there’s a market here for selling ‘add on’ scatter plates to people who want to add some diffusion on top of existing bass traps, for example? Or maybe it’s just me

Anyway, thoughts welcome. And if you know of any companies selling these in Europe, then please hook me up.
Attached Thumbnails
Diffusion scatter plates - why does nobody sell them?-pattern-2d-.jpg  
Old 9th March 2018
  #2
Old 9th March 2018
  #3
Gear Nut
 

Power drill and 3 different size hole saw attachments on 1/4 inch plywood should get you where you want to go, if you have time and space to DIY.
Old 9th March 2018
  #4
Gear Head
 

The only way to get them is to buy a seller's products - exactly the way they want it. Also, they can then entice you to overpay for the plates as an add-on.

I agree, there's definitely a market for it though.
Old 10th March 2018
  #5
Lives for gear
 

No you are definitely not alone in the need of such things, A typical sheet of 1/8" birch ply 2'x4' panel is only like 7or8 bucks @ homedepot...
Templating the thing is the biggest hassle: it has to made copy exact or it is less than effective.Once you have a template, doing large numbers of them would not be that hard or time consuming if the proper tools are available: Router+ Table. I may have someone make some for me...

Light

Temple
Old 10th March 2018
  #6
Gear Nut
 

Looks like Auralex might sell their Sustain series plates in Europe.Sustain Bamboo Sound Diffusors

I cut my own using hole saw blades and a power drill. A cordless drill did not have enough power, so i recommend a corded drill. Use clamps to hold the plywood to a thicker backing board which helps the blade cut cleanly through the 1/4 top plate.

All the best. I hope the OP gets what you need.
Attached Thumbnails
Diffusion scatter plates - why does nobody sell them?-sustain_keypacs_4ce3fbb362ec4.jpg   Diffusion scatter plates - why does nobody sell them?-imag0097.jpg   Diffusion scatter plates - why does nobody sell them?-imag1370.jpg  
Old 10th March 2018
  #7
Gear Maniac
 

Thread Starter
Cheers guys.

The RPG BAD Panel linked to above (thanks Jens) is about the closest product I've found to what I'm looking for - but even then it's more than just a simple wooden scatter plate.

I'm fairly handy at DIY and may yet go down that route. It seems straightforward enough, assuming I can find (or make) an accurate template and then muster up the patience for drilling several hundred holes in plywood. Not the most inspiring way to kill some free time; and that's partly why I'd be happy to buy such a product ready-made.

The manufacturers of acoustic panels must have these scatter plates in stock, ready for fitting. I'd have thought that selling them as 'add ons' to people who already have their fill of broadband/bass traps would make good business sense, especially as such people aren't otherwise likely to be coming back for repeat business.

But heh. If anyone decides to fill this gap in the market then please let me know - and we can negotiate my percentage
Old 10th March 2018
  #8
Gear Maniac
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by UltramegaOK View Post
Looks like Auralex might sell their Sustain series plates in Europe.Sustain Bamboo Sound Diffusors

I cut my own using hole saw blades and a power drill. A cordless drill did not have enough power, so i recommend a corded drill. Use clamps to hold the plywood to a thicker backing board which helps the blade cut cleanly through the 1/4 top plate.

All the best. I hope the OP gets what you need.
Those Auralex plates look just the job! Thanks for the link
Old 10th March 2018
  #9
Gear Nut
 

There is a pilot bit that you use to attach the saw blade to the drill. I believe i spent around $80 on the blades for three diameters /sizes. Example of 1 inch blade and bit, plus a 4 inch blade:
Attached Thumbnails
Diffusion scatter plates - why does nobody sell them?-885363002553.jpg   Diffusion scatter plates - why does nobody sell them?-885363002409.jpg  
Old 10th March 2018
  #10
Gear Maniac
 

Thread Starter
^ Nice one. I've got a few smaller circular bits in my toolbox, probably up to around 3" (need to check), but would need to buy in anything larger than that.

Still, I'm never shy of an excuse to buy more tools
Old 10th March 2018
  #11
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

I don't need them in my current (very dead) room, but I took a couple dead, 4-foot-square gobos and hung wooden Venetian blinds on one side. Blinds open = diffuse, blinds shut = live, gobo turned around = dead. Worked really well and cost me nothing since I trashpicked the blinds.
Old 10th March 2018
  #12
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skol303 View Post
Cheers guys.

The RPG BAD Panel linked to above (thanks Jens) is about the closest product I've found to what I'm looking for - but even then it's more than just a simple wooden scatter plate.

I'm fairly handy at DIY and may yet go down that route. It seems straightforward enough, assuming I can find (or make) an accurate template and then muster up the patience for drilling several hundred holes in plywood. Not the most inspiring way to kill some free time; and that's partly why I'd be happy to buy such a product ready-made.

The manufacturers of acoustic panels must have these scatter plates in stock, ready for fitting. I'd have thought that selling them as 'add ons' to people who already have their fill of broadband/bass traps would make good business sense, especially as such people aren't otherwise likely to be coming back for repeat business. TRUE

But heh. If anyone decides to fill this gap in the market then please let me know - and we can negotiate my percentage
You would be correct in the add-ons dept, but did you ever notice the purveyors of said products are not making them to the standard 2'x4' panel frame dimension? Which makes it difficult/impractical
to use with similar DIY frames? It would be a very large market share especially those with too much broadband absorption in their rooms,
who wish to upgrade...
It's no accident, as branding is everything in the world of acoustics...
Stand out of the crowd, or be buried by the herd...

YYMV

Light

Temple
Old 10th March 2018
  #13
Lives for gear
 

Old 10th March 2018
  #14
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Foi View Post
The holes are just a random binary sequence. Divide whatever size panel youre making into an even grid, and then generate a random sequence assigned to each section of the grid. Drill a hole on 0, leave the gap on 1.

DIY Binary Amplitude Diffuser anyone?


Random Binary Number Generator - Create Random Bin Digits - Online - Browserling Web Developer Tools

2'x4' panel in 1" grid. 24x48=1152
Generate 1152 random digits
Wow, even a tactically underemployed Sr Eng.Tech like me can figure this out,
Simply drawing a 1" square grid on a 2'x4' panel, assigning each number to the corresponding square going from left to right, top to bottom, and drilling out all the 0's and leaving all the 1's alone, you have a randomly generated binary diffusion grid, available as a template for a diffusion panel...but the question is , why didn't the random binary pattern generator specify what diameter of hole to drill?
Google's mission is to organise the world's information and make it useful...
They are failing miserably...what will the code writer's think up next to replace the human experience with...cant wait to replaced by a machine...

Thanks Jason.

YYMV

Light

Temple
Old 10th March 2018
  #15
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Temple of Light View Post
Wow, even a tactically underemployed Sr Eng.Tech like me can figure this out,
Simply drawing a 1" square grid on a 2'x4' panel, assigning each number to the corresponding square going from left to right, top to bottom, and drilling out all the 0's and leaving all the 1's alone, you have a randomly generated binary diffusion grid, available as a template for a diffusion panel...but the question is , why didn't the random binary pattern generator specify what diameter of hole to drill?
Google's mission is to organise the world's information and make it useful...
They are failing miserably...what will the code writer's think up next to replace the human experience with...cant wait to replaced by a machine...

Thanks Jason.

YYMV

Light

Temple
Technically in the 1" grid, the hole should be a 1"x1" square to stay true to the grid, but you could just do a 1" hole with a drill to greatly simplify construction. The generator just gives you the pattern. If you have multiple holes in a row then you can just make them all connected like in the OPs example. Once you have one made, a plunge router and copy bit would make quick work of duplicating them. You could probably make 4 at a time easily with a 1" router bit.
Old 13th March 2018
  #16
Gear Maniac
 

Thread Starter
Thanks again guys.

Being a lazy sort, I've skipped the DIY approach and am now in conversation with Acoustic GRG (UK) about their RPG BAD panels, as linked to by Jens above, which seem just the ticket and reasonably priced. So far, so good

I'll report back in due course.
Old 13th March 2018
  #17
Lives for gear
 

You may find a place like GIK would help you out if you ask? Perhaps they just don't see the market for selling the plates stand-alone?
Old 13th March 2018
  #18
Gear Maniac
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by explorer View Post
You may find a place like GIK would help you out if you ask? Perhaps they just don't see the market for selling the plates stand-alone?
I enquired with GIK Europe and also Glenn here on Gearslutz and unfortunately they don't sell the scatter plates separately.
Old 18th March 2018
  #19
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by explorer View Post
You may find a place like GIK would help you out if you ask? Perhaps they just don't see the market for selling the plates stand-alone?
They see what they want to see, the market is there...they just dont want to play in it...not enough margin...

YYMV
Light

Temple
Old 18th March 2018
  #20
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Temple of Light View Post
They see what they want to see, the market is there...they just dont want to play in it...not enough margin...

YYMV
Light

Temple
No knock on GIK. This is an interesting observation.
Old 19th March 2018
  #21
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Temple of Light View Post
They see what they want to see, the market is there...they just dont want to play in it...not enough margin...

YYMV
Light

Temple
I imagine the labour cost is near zero, because they’ll have a machine laser cutting them or something similar. Hopefully they change their stance, because obviously there is a market, this discussion reflects that.

Also it is an add on to people who have already bought their panels and possibly wouldn’t have considered buying anything else anytime soon, so that’s good for business.
Old 20th March 2018
  #22
Buy the material and have a bunch of them CNC cut by a local carpentry shop?

Nick Froome
Old 20th March 2018
  #23
Gear Maniac
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by BN1studio View Post
Buy the material and have a bunch of them CNC cut by a local carpentry shop?
Definitely an option. Scatter plates could certainly be custom-made by a local carpentry shop or even DIY'd. I'm just surprised that nobody seems to sell them ready-made 'off the shelf', given that:

a) They must be easy to mass-produce; and

b) There's likely to be a market for them amongst people who already have their fill of absorption and want to add some diffusion to their treatment.

Normally, such gaps in the market exist because the business case doesn't stack up - i.e. it's not profitable or the market demand just isn't there. Hence my curiosity
Old 21st March 2018
  #24
Here for the gear
 

So if I'm reading the patent by Peter D'Antonio correctly as specified in Planar binary amplitude diffusor, I should be able to use and vary his figure 12 binary sequence to fit a standard size 244-type panel. It's a matter of laying out a 31/33 matrix within the space provided. That looks something like 11/16" spacing (provided you leave room at the edges for mounting). You would wind up putting two such matrices, one on top of the other, in a typical 2x4x4" panel. Assuming 7/16" hole diameter you should have enough structural integrity to have the intra-cell spacing to be stable enough to work with for off-the-shelf (plywood) materials and tools. You would need to vary the binary sequence and probably invert it in the adjacent panels. Slap 4" or so of 703 behind it and build a small lightweight frame to hold it and you're good to go.

For a floor-standing GOBO a 5/8" spacing would work out as well. You'd have to flip the matrix on its side and run it 3 times, which would work out nicely into a 2'x5x type GOBO panel. If I put a couple of those behind my grand piano I bet it would help.

It would take a bunch of careful measurements and a drill press. That's labor intensive, but not unfeasible. Am I missing something?
Old 21st March 2018
  #25
Lives for gear
 

What material/thickness should I ask for if I get some panels made by a carpentry company?
Old 22nd March 2018
  #26
Gear Nut
 

1/4 inch
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