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Expensive speakers. Am I expected to let them sit on sharp spikes Studio Monitors
Old 1 week ago
  #1
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Expensive speakers. Am I expected to let them sit on sharp spikes

So I got some new monitors to mix on. Just setting them up in my room pushing and pulling them around to get the best LBIR SBIR etc. They are on Unity monolith stands. They are expensive.

Am I really expected to let them sit on sharp spikes? I just don't have the heart to do it!

I just had a look at a thread about "isolation" this but unfortunately it disintegrated into a total mess and has only managed to give me brain damage...

Testing Loudspeaker Isolation Products
Old 1 week ago
  #2
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DanDan's Avatar
Absurd

Spikes are absurd. Shame on Unity for making such a product.
Remove the spikes and use Isolate It hemispheres or other resilient product. Get the loading right by choosing the right diameter and duro? number.

Did your speakers come with pads or hemispheres? Neumann speakers come with tiny clear resilient hemispheres. I use carefully chosen bigger one between the KH310 and the Towersonic stand.
If possible I would fill any metal tubing with some dry damping material. Kitty Litter, Sand, Polyester fibre....

DD
Old 5 days ago
  #3
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28kg ATC SMC20ASLs

Ha yeah you would think that they could chuck in some feet for that money! Saying that though they do seem to be quite happy just sat on the stands. I don't blast huge dBs.

Why would hemispheres be better than hockey puck shaped feet? A hockey puck shape seems like it would be more stable? Just wondering why they are that shape

The more I read about spikes the less it seems anybody would ever need them.
But they are everywhere.... do a search for speaker decoupling and mainly you will see spikes! Bizarre.
Old 5 days ago
  #4
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DanDan's Avatar
Hemishpheres

I would have thought square or rectangular sorbothane to move the least. But moving and resilient are in conflict here so it's an engineering trade off.
A Hemisphere offers a gradually increase in load bearing as one gets closer to contact. I guess that prevents scratching. I remember seeing a recommendation, but not the actual number, as to how much load or deflection is optimum. Is it half way through the recommended operating load? or 30%? or 70%?
Yes the popularity of spikes are kinda insane. As is the current popularity of Vinyl.
What next, Cassettes?

DD
Old 4 days ago
  #5
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Suspension system...

So I asked the manufacturer of my speakers what I should put them on. They were not impressed with the idea of using rubber pucks..."are typically quite hard and the resonant frequency of the mass-spring system ends up in the speaker operating band where, they may do as much harm as good"

They suggested a mass loaded wire suspension system @ a resonant frequency of about 10Hz but I was unlikely to find one, so don't worry about it.

So they are not bothered what you put them on as long as they are stable and safe. It is true that at even at decent amount of decibels I cannot feel the cabinet move at all

They were more concerned about de-coupleing the stands from the floor in case the neighbours were angry with my new monitors!

So now I am thinking about the best way to de-couple the stands from the floor!
Old 4 days ago
  #6
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Spikes are for strongly coupling, not decoupling.
Old 4 days ago
  #7
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DanDan's Avatar
BS

The semi hard rubber pucks are to avoid scratching or digging into the wooden floor.
If you were to actually decouple the speakers from the floor the tower would be able to wiggle. And as akebrake said, spikes couple intimately.
This is an Acoustics forum and we are here. I don't mind debating issues to tease them out, but debating reality, especially with someone not here is daft. Your speaker stand manufacturer is quite ignorant of Acoustics and Physics.
EDIT send em a link to this thread or any other rubbishing the notion that spikes decouple.
DD

Last edited by DanDan; 4 days ago at 07:00 PM..
Old 4 days ago
  #8
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Thread Starter
Spikes are for strongly coupling

Quote:
Originally Posted by OpusOfTrolls View Post
Spikes are for strongly coupling, not decoupling.
I always knew this. Like a bridge on a violin. Tuning fork on table etc. It transfers the sound. The argument that the end of the spikes is very small so doesn't transfer is totally ridiculous. Still there are hundreds of outlets advertising spikes for de-coupling. Articles explaining how to de-couple using spikes are everywhere.

Even the speaker stand makers (Unity) call them de-coupling spikes!

So let it be said here for others who are confused

Speaker spikes DO NOT DECOUPLE your speakers. Speaker spikes guarantee they WILL be coupled.
Old 4 days ago
  #9
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DanDan's Avatar
Daft

Towersonics supply spikes as standard. Rubber pucks are an expensive optional extra. As I have carpet, I replaced the spikes with round headed nuts. These sink into the carpet and underlay without damage, easily moved, but the apex pushes down squeezing that tiny area of carpet hard. An early mentor, Nicky Ryan (Enya, Clannad) used concrete blocks. Just wrapped in fabric. (or could be painted). On consideration, what a good idea.

DD
Old 4 days ago
  #10
Lives for gear
I found a noticeable improvement in sound with the IsoAcoustics monitor stands. I have the classic, not the new pucks. Nice rubber feet. Mind you, that's on a desk bridge, not stands.
Old 4 days ago
  #11
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There is a long time ago before the idiophiles goodies arrive in the audiophile world, we used spikes under an analytical balance sensitivity. For decoupling or isolate the balance of the table and the vibration generate buy the floor.
Old 4 days ago
  #12
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DanDan's Avatar
Coupling

Quote:
For decoupling or isolate
Spikes couple and connect. The area of contact is much smaller than a flat foot but weight is not magically vanished, it is transformed into vastly increased pressure in a smaller area. Plus penetration.

Spikes, particularly three, can make a very stable contact, which is useful if the floor is solid.
DD
Old 4 days ago
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanDan View Post
Spikes couple and connect. The area of contact is much smaller than a flat foot but weight is not magically vanished, it is transformed into vastly increased pressure in a smaller area. Plus penetration.

Spikes, particularly three, can make a very stable contact, which is useful if the floor is solid.
DD
The spikes and his magical property : quantum property, the quantum superposition.
How is the cat?
Old 3 days ago
  #14
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DanDan's Avatar
LOL

Aaah, I get it now. Nice one dino.

DD
Old 3 days ago
  #15
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higher up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by musicus View Post
I found a noticeable improvement in sound with the IsoAcoustics monitor stands. I have the classic, not the new pucks. Nice rubber feet. Mind you, that's on a desk bridge, not stands.
Is that partly because they are now higher up?
Old 3 days ago
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanDan View Post
The semi hard rubber pucks are to avoid scratching or digging into the wooden floor.
If you were to actually decouple the speakers from the floor the tower would be able to wiggle. And as akebrake said, spikes couple intimately.
This is an Acoustics forum and we are here. I don't mind debating issues to tease them out, but debating reality, especially with someone not here is daft. Your speaker stand manufacturer is quite ignorant of Acoustics and Physics.
EDIT send em a link to this thread or any other rubbishing the notion that spikes decouple.
DD
At the moment I wish the stands had wheels (lockable). Heaving them around while positioning is giving me a nice workout!

My floor (cheap wooden) is quite resonant so I think I may go with your concrete blocks approach.

Am I right in thinking that not much vibration actually reaches the floor through the stands anyway?
Old 3 days ago
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Freeland View Post
Is that partly because they are now higher up?
No. I'm, let's say, fastidious about positioning. If there was a change in height, it was an inch.
Old 3 days ago
  #18
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DanDan's Avatar
Degree

Quote:
Am I right in thinking that not much vibration actually reaches the floor through the stands anyway?
This depends on IMO mostly the cabinet design. Some are massive, even concrete, or MDF strongly braced, or mass loaded plastic etc. etc. Even at high volumes of bass heavy music, one cannot feel much vibration of the box, and certainly nothing discernible in the stand. An Accelerometer would be better, but such measurements are bound to detect vibration. Is it audible or damaging to the main audio though? If the stand is coupled to a resonant floor, and the speaker coupled to the stand, audio damage is possible to likely. Tests have shown sound radiating from the floor and arriving at the listener BEFORE the direct air path sound. Sound travels very much faster in solids.
There has been at least one speaker who's cabinet is designed to radiate. It was a standard BBC Studio Monitor. The Spendor BC1.

Quote:
If there was a change in height, it was an inch.
An inch can easily change response quite significantly.

DD
Old 2 days ago
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanDan View Post
An inch can easily change response quite significantly.
Hmmm - do you mean an inch relative to the room, the desk, or my ears?

If it's ears - I always adjust my sitting height to be at nominally the same level relative to the speakers.

On the other hand - I cannot ensure I sit at exactly the same height every single moment, all day, every day to better than +/- 1/2 inch.
Old 2 days ago
  #20
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DanDan's Avatar
Size Matters....

I wouldn't single out any particular dimension or relativity. When tweaking speaker positions, at the final stages I go down to a couple of centimetres. I have seen remarkable differences in LF response even with such tiny variations of width and height.
DD
Old 2 days ago
  #21
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Thread Starter
Resolution

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanDan View Post

An inch can easily change response quite significantly.

DD

Yes. Ever accidentally nudged your mic in the middle of a measuring session? Even a 1 cm move gives you pronounced differences in measurements.

I imagine a an inch from the hard surface of a desk will change response despite how high your ears are.
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