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Can't Get An Equilateral Triangle
Old 3rd July 2016
  #1
Gear Nut
 
dannydawiz's Avatar
 

Can't Get An Equilateral Triangle

Hey guys so I'm rearranging my room around and right now I'm trying to get an equilateral triangle on my monitors. The problem is that because of my desk whenever I place my monitors in an equilateral triangle from my face they end up being slightly blocked by the top two shelves of my desk.

Here's a pic of how my desk looks. It's not in an equilateral triangle right now because I moved my monitors closer up.

http://i.imgur.com/3wdhcrW.jpg

Currently the distance between them is a little more than 5 feet. The problem is that in order for my listening position to be an equilateral triangle my desk needs to be closer up which puts the monitors BEHIND those two top shelves. How bad would it bet f I violated the triangle rule and instead had the distance from the monitors to the listening position be 4 feet?

So the distance between the monitors would be 5 feet and the distance between them and the listening position would be 4.

Would this be bad?
Old 3rd July 2016
  #2
Lives for gear
Hi Danny

Does it sound bad to you thataway?

Five feet on one side versus four feet on the other two is pretty close to equlateral. If I hit the correct calculator keys, maybe [77.4 : 51.3 : 51.3] degrees, vs equilateral [60 : 60 : 60] degrees.

My rig is "wider" than that at about [90 : 45 : 45] degrees. Sounds fine to me. Wide stereo doesn't sound "too wide" or whatever. Am mostly interested in melody, harmony, rhythm and timbre. Stereo image doesn't matter. A well-recorded, well-performed, good song-- It will sound good to me even in mono.

Maybe my setup would grossly offend fellas who happen to be sensitive about "perfect imaging". Some fellas seem real concerned about the imaging. Fixated about the proper "phantom center" and such.

Have thought about trying for closer to equilateral, but in my room it would bump the listening position too far back-- Too near the room center.
Old 9th July 2016
  #3
Here for the gear
 

when it comes to krk you want imaging over frequency response because the comb filtering is too jacked up... so 2 things that will dramatically help..1. keep your monitors where they are but flip them on there side with the bass port towards the back of the room and the tweeters closest to window.. this gives you stereo image 2. take a triple A battery and tape it 3 in away from your connectors on your monitor cables with the positive end facing down this adds a magnetic field to your cable and increases ionization this should help quality and stereo image. All this sounds crazy but just try it and if you like the results keep it if not then change it back..hope this helps. By the way the first thing you should do is sell your scarlet interface your converter in your mac probably sounds better or close to it..so get a better interface..just my opinion hope you find some value and let me know how it goes!
Old 9th July 2016
  #4
Gear Guru
 
Glenn Kuras's Avatar
If you really want to know if things are setup properly then I would test one speaker at a time with REW. You can view the ETC to see if the shelf is messing thing up.
Room EQ Wizard Tutorial - GIK Acoustics
Old 9th July 2016
  #5
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Explained Audio View Post
... 2. take a triple A battery and tape it 3 in away from your connectors on your monitor cables with the positive end facing down this adds a magnetic field to your cable and increases ionization this should help quality and stereo image. All this sounds crazy but just try it and if you like the results keep it if not then change it back..hope this helps. ... and let me know how it goes!
I quite like your helpful spirit and encouragement. Nevertheless, I found myself looking for a smiley face on point number 2 that suggests taping a battery to the signal cable. I can only conclude that you're serious about that recommendation.

If you're serious, then you're pressing into an area, and a forum populated by people who prefer to see a reasonable mechanism based in physics that explains the strategy and results. Since you've posted a recommendation couched in the physics of ionization, then we, who are hearing this suggestion for the first time are in need of some supporting documentation.

My concern is two-fold. First, that batteries have no magnetic fields of themselves, and must produce a current in connected wire in order to create a magnetic field, usually accomplished with the wire formed into a coil. Second, ionization is a physical effect that is normally constrained to elements in the gas state, not solid. Furthermore ionization of air requires voltage on the order of 3-million volts for a 1-meter gap. Certainly, the 1.5-volt AAA battery isn't close to offering any air ionization effects.

In this forum, the members are prepared to rail on for hours about the best objective and subjective performance of converters, speakers, microphones and plug-ins. If you want to defend the use of AAA batteries taped to cables, you'll serve yourself and the community well by basing the suggestion on measured results in an appropriately designed experiment.

I wish you well.
Old 9th July 2016
  #6
Lives for gear
 
Lumbergh's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Explained Audio View Post
2. take a triple A battery and tape it 3 in away from your connectors on your monitor cables with the positive end facing down this adds a magnetic field to your cable and increases ionization this should help quality and stereo image. All this sounds crazy ...
Yes it does!
Old 9th July 2016
  #7
Gear Guru
Test

As Glenn said, using testing rather than rules of thumb to locate your speakers and listener positions. The Eq Tri, 38% rule etc. etc. are all nonsense without context and detail. For instance, the Apex of that triangle should ideally be BEHIND your head, not at your nose or ears.
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/stud...-mistakes.html
DD
Old 10th July 2016
  #8
Lives for gear
Measurements with such as REW is good of course.

However, the "equilateral triangle" or other speaker positioning would presumably be adjusted to achieve "proper imaging" whatever that may be. Are there machines capable of validating "good imaging"? I'm not a rabid advocate of subjective testing, but one might have to subjectively evaluate imaging, if for no other reason than perhaps no machine exists which can tell us whether the imaging is good or bad?

My ears don't seem picky about imaging. Can't recall getting real annoyed about it. "Dang, this system is totally un-usable because the stereo image is bad and the phantom center is too wide/narrow." But apparently it bugs some folks.

This article by Floyd E. Toole discusses imaging from page 21. Imaging-relevant data in earlier pages. http://www.harman.com/sites/default/...ndRoomsPt2.pdf

He posits that imaging is affected by the directivity of the speakers, speaker off-axis frequency response, and room acoustics. Much of his writing is about "wide sweet spot" listening in living rooms or home theater. For a "solo" composing or recording room where the necessary sweet spot in some cases might be rather small-- The ideas about optimizing imaging for a big sweet spot might not be entirely relevant. Sure maybe the principles might be similar, but I don't care how it sounds anywhere in the room except where I'm sitting, and the office chair never rolls out of an area about a yard square.

Dr Toole also says there are variations in imaging preferences. Some people like it very wide and others want it narrow. So, given a certain speaker directivity in a certain room, a fella might set up the equilateral triangle only to find the image too wide or narrow for his taste? Maybe speaker-room interactions would necessitate different spacings for different speakers, to achieve the same perceived "wideness" of the image?
Old 10th July 2016
  #9
Lives for gear
 
Piedpiper's Avatar
Having the speakers further away from each other than to the listening position is actually preferred, IMHO. There are other factors that need to be accounted for to properly optimize position though.
Old 10th July 2016
  #10
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by dannydawiz View Post
So the distance between the monitors would be 5 feet and the distance between them and the listening position would be 4.

Would this be bad?
No
Old 10th July 2016
  #11
rds
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piedpiper View Post
Having the speakers further away from each other than to the listening position is actually preferred, IMHO.
Any particular reason to this preference ?
Topic:
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