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Combine Foam with Rockwool panels good idea?
Old 10th March 2016
  #1
Gear Maniac
 

Combine Foam with Rockwool panels good idea?

Hi
I got my small room with some rockwool panels I've build, recently I add more 5cm rockwool panels to my 10cm rockwool panels and my bass response started to get balanced.
I have some triangle bass traps made of foam like in the picture

would this bass foam trap combined with my 10cm rockwool traps will do the same job as my 10cm rockwool combined with 5cm rockwool?
Attached Images
Combine Foam with Rockwool panels good idea?-hvrd-1-.jpg 
Old 10th March 2016
  #2
Gear Guru
 
Glenn Kuras's Avatar
If you have a 10cm panel that is straddling the corner and you add 5cm to the face it will work MUCH better than just foam in the corners. Not sure if that was your plan though.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #3
Even if in my case not talking about bass traps, I like this question.
Has everyone tested normal rockwool vs rockwool + foam panels...?

Does anyone have some experience to share?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #4
Lives for gear
Foam is not a proper acoustic treatment.

Better to use only rockwool. GFR depends on the thickness of treatment.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayPee View Post
Foam is not a proper acoustic treatment.
No doubts on that! But can work a lil bit on the highs so, what do you think about using rockwool PLUS foam panels on top?

Maybe someone has done some testing with rockwool alone and the two together
Old 3 weeks ago
  #6
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyroh View Post
No doubts on that! But can work a lil bit on the highs so, what do you think about using rockwool PLUS foam panels on top?

Maybe someone has done some testing with rockwool alone and the two together
Bad idea. Use only mineral wool.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #7
Lives for gear
 

I would skip the foam and just go with the mineral wool. It does not have to be Rockwool brand, though! Rockwool is just one if many manufacturers that make mineral wool insulation that can be used in studios. In fact, it doesn't even have to be mineral wool! Fiberglass insulation is also good for building acoustic treatment. They type of insulation you use isn't that critical: What matters most is the GFR numbers. Make sure you get that right, for each application.


- Stuart -
Old 3 weeks ago
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyroh View Post
No doubts on that! But can work a lil bit on the highs so, what do you think about using rockwool PLUS foam panels on top?
Open cell acoustic foam works fine. The main downside is it's a lot more expensive per volume than other options. If you already have it, use it. 4" rockwool plus 2" inch foam will work better than 4" rockwool by itself.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #9
Lives for gear
Define works, and define "fine".

In our application (studio environment) foam is never used at least by pro-acoustician designer. Neither before or after other proper acoustic treatment.

Foam doesn't work fine.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #10
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the fxs's Avatar
 

well, Basotect foam works very well as an acoustic treatment material, and it's much easier to handle.
Basotect is nothing like the usual "pyramid" or "egg crate" shaped black foam, though.
it's just too expensive.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #11
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by the fxs View Post
well, Basotect foam works very well as an acoustic treatment material, and it's much easier to handle.
Basotect is nothing like the usual "pyramid" or "egg crate" shaped black foam, though.
it's just too expensive.
i mixed basotect (for reuse a first acoustict treatment) with fiber glass with a good result.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #12
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the fxs's Avatar
 

yeah, why not.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #13
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayPee View Post
Define works, and define "fine".

In our application (studio environment) foam is never used at least by pro-acoustician designer. Neither before or after other proper acoustic treatment.

Foam doesn't work fine.
Where are you getting this information from that foam doesn't work? In measured data with same thickness, foam and mineral wool have rather similar absorption.

40mm thick
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/...fig1_320915773

24 inch deep corner traps
http://forum.studiotips.com/viewtopic.php?p=3975#3975
Old 2 weeks ago
  #14
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AudioWonderland's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayPee View Post
Foam is not a proper acoustic treatment.

Better to use only rockwool. GFR depends on the thickness of treatment.
Typical packing foam etc. may not be but the commercially available products from Auralex for example seem to do alright. I think maybe we just need to define some terms a little better.

I will be putting some Rockwool panels in front of existing panels this summer myself. I am pretty confident I will see solid improvement.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #15
Lives for gear
Measurements don't lie.

If you have a problem at high frequencies, then yes, foam might work (assuming placed at the right place).

But don't rely on foam to treat your modal region. Which is in most cases (assuming you have rigid walls and not working in a tent) THE problem.

Now you can argue and tell me Anechoic room are created using foam.
Yes. But it's a very special environment. And no one would ever work (mix/produce/master/write) in such a space.

I never saw a pro-designer using foam.

Rod Gervais "I never use foam in anything I design"

The Foam Factory (foam by mail) test data
Old 2 weeks ago
  #16
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AudioWonderland's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayPee View Post
Measurements don't lie.

If you have a problem at high frequencies, then yes, foam might work (assuming placed at the right place).

But don't rely on foam to treat your modal region. Which is in most cases (assuming you have rigid walls and not working in a tent) THE problem.

Now you can argue and tell me Anechoic room are created using foam.
Yes. But it's a very special environment. And no one would ever work (mix/produce/master/write) in such a space.

I never saw a pro-designer using foam.

Rod Gervais "I never use foam in anything I design"

The Foam Factory (foam by mail) test data
Your deflecting the question. You said it doesn't work. That is incorrect. It does work but it is prohibitively expensive

The commercially available foam options aren't big enough to reach the very low-end. True enough.That is not their design goal.They are designed to help clean up the obvious and easiest issues in a common room, be small enough to ship and sell in retail stores and be nice looking.

Comparable sized pieces would perform but cost ten times add much as rockwool if they were available
Old 1 week ago
  #17
I was asking because I have a room within room setup made of 12cm or rockwool with wood frame.

- Wood on the outside (but I might add drywall)
- rockwool (12 cm)
- fabric
- a sheet of plastic material (worst idea every probably)
- foam panels (6 cm depth, pretty much every space knee to shoulder level and somewhere even to head level)

It doesn't sound bad but I don't know (now that I have some more knowledge on acoustics) if it sounded better before, without the plastic material and without the foam panels....

Should I remove the plastic and foam panels?

P.S. I tried positioning two other 12 cm rockwool panels in first reflection points but testing it didn't really change anything which sounds a bit strange but...that's how it went
Old 1 week ago
  #18
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Yes.
Old 1 week ago
  #19
Gear Addict
 
johannburkard's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyroh View Post
No doubts on that! But can work a lil bit on the highs so, what do you think about using rockwool PLUS foam panels on top?

Maybe someone has done some testing with rockwool alone and the two together
I will be testing something like that this week: Basotect over a membrane bass trap.

Should happen this week.

It won't be a large scale test just yet, however, just some small 7 cm thick Basotect absorbers for my desk.

And I don't expect miracles, all I want is to further reduce sidewall reflections.
Old 1 week ago
  #20
Gear Addict
 
johannburkard's Avatar
Results of my test here. Plausible at best.
Old 1 week ago
  #21
I just removed the plastic and the foam panels from the rockwool walls
From the left and back of my particular shape room

....
Absolutely not much of a difference. A touch better in the high end. A touch different in the low end...
Kinda sad...
Old 1 week ago
  #22
Lives for gear
Have you don any measurements?

What is the placement of your treatment?

Pics?
Old 1 week ago
  #23
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayPee View Post
Have you don any measurements?

What is the placement of your treatment?

Pics?
I just tested with Sonarworks. I use it since for now I surely can't have a perfect studio so something is (for now) changed with that
Here's how it changed
Attached Thumbnails
Combine Foam with Rockwool panels good idea?-differenza.jpg  
Old 3 days ago
  #24
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by the fxs View Post
well, Basotect foam works very well as an acoustic treatment material ...
Basotect is great! Not exactly cheap but it's on a whole different level compared to e.g. PU foams. We use Basotect a lot in our studios. Very easy to work with, impressive absorption, super lightweight.
Old 3 days ago
  #25
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyroh View Post
I just tested with Sonarworks. I use it since for now I surely can't have a perfect studio so something is (for now) changed with that
Here's how it changed

Frequency response is only a small part of the whole story.


Let's have a look at your decay (waterfall), how does it look?
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