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Building a small 6x6 air-tight cockpit for producing, recording, and mixing
Old 28th April 2015
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dabianzo View Post
Perhaps adjust/build outwards, rather than inwards.. maintaining the maximum core workspace? Just a thought
That is interesting. I do have about 1.5 feet on each side to work with. Depending on how it sounds when everything is installed, this might be a nice approach. Would love to hear others chime in on this.
Old 28th April 2015
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by therecordlabel View Post
Looking like fun man! Are those side desk parts empty voids? Cause if so they are going to resonate in exciting and horrible ways. Maybe fill them with an absorbent material like rockwool?
P
Dude, they totally are. Last night I put my keyboard on the left one and just mock played drum keys (moderately hard) and it was like I was playing an actual drum hahaha. I do have a bag of r-13 insulation left over from the walls. Do you think that would work if I stuffed them full of that and sealed it off?

The right side will have the computer,but I could still probably put some in there and seal it off without compromising the computer's space...

Thanks for the post!
Old 28th April 2015
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyMakesMusic View Post
Dude, they totally are. Last night I put my keyboard on the left one and just mock played drum keys (moderately hard) and it was like I was playing an actual drum hahaha. I do have a bag of r-13 insulation left over from the walls. Do you think that would work if I stuffed them full of that and sealed it off?

The right side will have the computer,but I could still probably put some in there and seal it off without compromising the computer's space...

Thanks for the post!
Yeah man fill it full of quality absorbant stuff and it will at least help to tame some low frequencies. Our client sofa is stuffed with rockwool. Not a joke. :-)
P
Old 28th April 2015
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by therecordlabel View Post
Yeah man fill it full of quality absorbant stuff and it will at least help to tame some low frequencies. Our client sofa is stuffed with rockwool. Not a joke. :-)
P
Awesome. Will do. Sweet. Now I don't have to stand in the return line at Home Depot. SCORE!!!
Old 29th April 2015
  #35
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Clockwise's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyMakesMusic View Post
On that point, I took last night off and went to bed early. This whole thing on top of work and family life took me to the limit. BUT I'M BACK ON BABY!

I did get my tape LED in the mail yesterday so I couldn't help but put it in the desk to see a preview last night. Hard to see in the pic, but trust me when I say it's awesome...

In case you're all wondering, it's this: LED Strip


LOL @ "scrapping this project" photo. You got the sides precisely cleaned up!

Anyway, the LEDs look so cool! Mind elevating! They'll make the room perfect for "into the zone" space.

Just to share my personal experience, I used to make tunes in 1.5m (w) x 2.1m (l) x 1.2m to 2.1m (h) semi-triangular type of room, which was built more for a storage in the first place. It was nice with dim lights, or swith off the lights and computer screen, put headphones on, and lose myself in the darkness. Ended up moving to a bigger room when I bought a pair of monitor speakers, but it was well worth working that way. You never know what you come up with in such space, man.
Old 29th April 2015
  #36
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Instead of sealing the sides up why not make some shelving?
Old 29th April 2015
  #37
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Steve,

He already has the space built....... drywall is finished.

Besides which, if he didn't "seal the sides up" it wouldn't serve the purpose that lead him here in the first place...... which is isolation.

You cannot isolate a space without closing it in and sealing it up.....

Rod
Old 29th April 2015
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod Gervais View Post
Steve,

He already has the space built....... drywall is finished.

Besides which, if he didn't "seal the sides up" it wouldn't serve the purpose that lead him here in the first place...... which is isolation.

You cannot isolate a space without closing it in and sealing it up.....

Rod
Apologies. I didn't explain myself well here, Rod. I was referring to the side panels of his desk where he has the MIDI keyboard. He's losing a lot of space underneath the desk on both sides so I was curious why he chose to enclose that instead of creating more leg room or some shelving.
Old 29th April 2015
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyMakesMusic View Post
Dude, they totally are. Last night I put my keyboard on the left one and just mock played drum keys (moderately hard) and it was like I was playing an actual drum hahaha. I do have a bag of r-13 insulation left over from the walls. Do you think that would work if I stuffed them full of that and sealed it off?

The right side will have the computer,but I could still probably put some in there and seal it off without compromising the computer's space...

Thanks for the post!
fill them with sand
Old 29th April 2015
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steveswisher View Post
Apologies. I didn't explain myself well here, Rod. I was referring to the side panels of his desk where he has the MIDI keyboard. He's losing a lot of space underneath the desk on both sides so I was curious why he chose to enclose that instead of creating more leg room or some shelving.
Sorry Steve, I misunderstood.....

I don't know why he did that....... he did (thought) acknowledge that it was (acoustically) a mistake and questioned filling them with fiberglass.

I could understand putting them there if they were going to serve as little gear racks for some critical outboard gear he loved to work with. Outside of what's required for function it doesn't make sense (in my mind anyway) to simply add things to an acoustically small space just because we can.

Perhaps he'll explain what drove this from the point of view of his design choices.

Rod
Old 30th April 2015
  #41
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Got my sphere LED's yesterday!
Then I painted the desk and drilled cable holes.
And installed the desk.

Tonight I'm doing the floor, cutting holes for gear, and painting touch ups.

Getting close!




Old 30th April 2015
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogerbrain View Post
fill them with sand
I can only assume you're joking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steveswisher View Post
I was curious why he chose to enclose that instead of creating more leg room or some shelving.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod Gervais View Post
Perhaps he'll explain what drove this from the point of view of his design choices.
Honestly, I'm not a carpenter, but I did want something custom. But I also didn't want to spend much... So... in terms of functionality and look I wanted every piece of the desk to serve a purpose and look streamlined. So those two pieces of ply that are enclosing the air pockets are also supports for the main desktop so it doesn't bend in the middle (the ply I used was pretty heavy and when I installed the desktop by itself without the sides, it had a slight bend in the middle). Also, the right side will hide the computer because I don't want to see a bundle of wires connecting to a black box (the sub will already be serving that purpose haha). The left side has no utility inside but I like the enclosed clean look it provides on top of supporting the keyboard and the desktop area, so I'll insulate it.

As far as it creating less room, I'll mostly be standing so there wont be much of a need for leg room. But for when I am sitting I made sure to move the left support a little deeper than the right side because I'll be turning toward the keyboard. So I measured the knee room I would need and designed accordingly. Other than that, I purposefully didn't consider any room for storage. I have that outside the room.

So honestly, it was lack of experience, the bottom line, and a simple modern look.

Thanks for the interest!

Last edited by MontyMakesMusic; 30th April 2015 at 04:47 AM..
Old 1st May 2015
  #43
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THIS IS SOOOO COOL! Please keep posting updates and let us know how it actually ends up sounding. Are you planning to mix in this space? This thread has inspired me to rethink my tiny apt bedroom setup. I know I am up against a monster as this room is almost a perfect cube but I am getting really frustrated with the mixes I am working on and I have actually thought about doing something very similar to what you are doing now in a relatives garage. they would be cool with it.

Anyhow.....keep it going.

fb
Old 1st May 2015
  #44
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don't eat any beans
Old 1st May 2015
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doulos30 View Post
don't eat any beans
Or if you do, don't strike any matches!
Old 1st May 2015
  #46
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I hooked it all up and it works! I haven't done any absorption aside from the insulation in the empty spaces underneath the shelves but boy has that helped already!

I also put some on the computer's side of the desk (right side) and topped it with ply for the computer to sit on. Working great so far.
And the Big Knob has eliminated this awful buzz that was coming through the 4 channel Mackie I was using for volume control before. And there's no noise from anything even with everything running on the same circuit.

The monitor arm mount is totally awesome too. I can move the monitor toward the controller while I'm recording and can glance over without breaking my neck.

I cut out holes for the Big Knob and the HD OMNI and all the cabling is underneath covered surfaces, so it's overall really clean.
I've yet to do the floor but I did buy an anti-fatigue mat and put it on the existing osb floor. And let me just say that if you have a standing desk and don't have an anti-fatigue mat, you need to order one now. The thing makes standing for long periods sooooo easy.

I'm going to take a break for a couple days before I do the laminate flooring. I also still need to do the door, but I have some ideas for that. I'm just so worn out from working on this thing the last couple weeks.

As far as sound, I haven't really gotten a good listen in yet, but I definitely can tell I need to put some absorption in, obviously. And I can virtually have the sub in the off position and still hear bass. It's very loud regardless of anything else, so that will be a challenge. But I won't really know anything concrete until I get my references going through Magic A/B this weekend.

I also put a photo below of my original layout of what I wanted the desk to look like so you can compare it to how it turned out (I'll pull the computer's guts and mount them inside the desk at a later date ).









Last edited by MontyMakesMusic; 1st May 2015 at 04:48 AM..
Old 1st May 2015
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyMakesMusic View Post
I definitely can tell I need to put some absorption in, obviously. And I can virtually have the sub in the off position and still hear bass. It's very loud regardless of anything else, so that will be a challenge.
That's what a number of others were hinting at but it is satisfying when we hear and can recognise for ourselves what needs doing.
Old 1st May 2015
  #48
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I'm impressed! Good on you for doing it: as others have said, mixing would be a nightmare I imagine so some decent headphones may aid you with that but for writing, production and some recording; its a great space and hope it serves you well.
Old 1st May 2015
  #49
Gear Nut
Looks awesome! I hope you're not claustrophobic
Old 1st May 2015
  #50
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Looks pretty cool in there! Like others, I'd be worried about the size and dimensions of the space but hopefully it works out for you. Here's a thought I had that might help: Since you haven't built the door yet, what if you made it double as a bass trap? I drew a rough concept sketch to illustrate the idea. Good luck!
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Building a small 6x6 air-tight cockpit for producing, recording, and mixing-idea.jpg  
Old 1st May 2015
  #51
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Quote:
I definitely can tell I need to put some absorption in, obviously.

you won't be able to add enough cause of physics hince the reason for all the comments. say its 6x6x6 "hail satan".

axial modes

94.1hz
188 hz
282 hz
376 hz
470 hz
there are a few more but these are the main ones.
now we have what are called absorption coefficients this is the charts key

0.00 = no absorbtion.
0.50 = 50% absorbtion.
1.00 = 100% absorbtion.

you are using rockwool correct?

lets use 125hz as your low ceiling.

to reach a full 1.0 of absorption you need roughly 4 inches of insulation from floor to ceiling preferably with some minor air gap. For oc 703 its 6 inches thick r11 it's a foot thick, but the real issue is the space. Your in a garage/basement that is your room. You just made a mini room in that room. A 125hz sound-wave is 9 feet long so 3 feet of it will be in the main room and be effected by the acoustics in that space.

in any case what's done is done perhaps the zen like nature of your space will allow better creativity and help you make better music despite it being acoustically reprehensible.
Happy music making.

Last edited by doulos30; 1st May 2015 at 10:14 PM..
Old 2nd May 2015
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doulos30 View Post
you won't be able to add enough cause of physics hince the reason for all the comments. say its 6x6x6 "hail satan".

axial modes

94.1hz
188 hz
282 hz
376 hz
470 hz
there are a few more but these are the main ones.
now we have what are called absorption coefficients this is the charts key

0.00 = no absorbtion.
0.50 = 50% absorbtion.
1.00 = 100% absorbtion.

you are using rockwool correct?

lets use 125hz as your low ceiling.

to reach a full 1.0 of absorption you need roughly 4 inches of insulation from floor to ceiling preferably with some minor air gap. For oc 703 its 6 inches thick r11 it's a foot thick, but the real issue is the space. Your in a garage/basement that is your room. You just made a mini room in that room. A 125hz sound-wave is 9 feet long so 3 feet of it will be in the main room and be effected by the acoustics in that space.

in any case what's done is done perhaps the zen like nature of your space will allow better creativity and help you make better music despite it being acoustically reprehensible.
Happy music making.
Hahaha, you're the best. Yeah, even from what everyone says, you don't really know until you REALLY KNOW. We'll see. So far it's a great creative space. I love it for that and I can tell it will be awesome for some late night writing sessions. The insulation under the side desks helped a lot with the reverberation but the bass is gnarly. Again, I won't really know what's going on until I hear some reference tracks that I'm really familiar with. But so far, it looks like the audiophiles were right. But just in case people didn't read the whole thread: I built it this size so I can move it in the future. It wasn't meant to be PG's place:

Old 2nd May 2015
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
That's what a number of others were hinting at but it is satisfying when we hear and can recognise for ourselves what needs doing.
Definitely! You can tell right away with the bass amplification. I was expecting extreme cuts in the bass from what I was reading, but wowzersss.
Old 2nd May 2015
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffLancaster View Post
Looks pretty cool in there! Like others, I'd be worried about the size and dimensions of the space but hopefully it works out for you. Here's a thought I had that might help: Since you haven't built the door yet, what if you made it double as a bass trap? I drew a rough concept sketch to illustrate the idea. Good luck!
I appreciate it! I wonder is anyone concurs with your assessment?
I was considering acrylic with clamps that would pull in from the inside (like a hatch on a submarine, but I'm open on that front - hahaha, no pun intended)
Old 2nd May 2015
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuitarMan216 View Post
Looks awesome! I hope you're not claustrophobic
With the oculus rift on it doesn't feel small at all hahahaha
Old 2nd May 2015
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OK GO View Post
I'm impressed! Good on you for doing it: as others have said, mixing would be a nightmare I imagine so some decent headphones may aid you with that but for writing, production and some recording; its a great space and hope it serves you well.
Thanks! Definitely worked out better than buying a trailer and modding it. MUCH easier on the wallet anyway...
Old 3rd May 2015
  #57
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I did the floor today. It was actually pretty straight forward thankfully. Laminate is pretty awesome stuff, I mean, you know, when you're talking about flooring...

Now I just have to do the ventilation, door, and... you know... audio treatment.

Old 4th May 2015
  #58
It's bigger on the inside than it is on the outside...
Old 5th May 2015
  #59
Gear Head
 

Do you plan on taking any acoustic measurements? Maybe do a before after treatment. Just curious what the waterfall is looking like in there.
Old 5th May 2015
  #60
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Did the door last night. Got a 36in x80in closet door at home depot. Lined the door frame with flat rubber, like you might use on the bottom of a threshold. It seals pretty good so far. It's not silent outside of the room, but if you're outside the garage it practically is, at least at the volumes I'll be working at.

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