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Cubendo > S-1 > Reaper DAW Software
Old 15th July 2014
  #1
Gear Maniac
 

Cubendo > S-1 > Reaper

Hi folks,
in light of Cubendo's uncertain future, how about making this thread a solid "one-stop info base" for all those considering a switch ?
Please, let's try to stick to workflow and core features as far as possible (i.e. "I would miss xy", "I like how xy is implemented" or "my main concerns are"), can we discuss companies, policies, philosophies, ethics elsewhere (make sure to invite me ! ) ?
Of course, helpful advice would be more than welcome in case somebody's overlooked something, this is complex stuff.

thanks, looking forward to your contributions !
Rhino

ok, the zombies have taken over.
let them have their fun, I'm out of here.
thanks to the few who actually contributed ...
while this thread didn't achieve its original purpose, it speaks volumes about some of the posters involved.
Old 15th July 2014
  #2
Gear Maniac
 

ok, so here's a non-representative list of all points mentioned so far.
I'll try and keep it current, points mentioned by others will be marked as such.
Take the list as an open-ended collection of impressions, not as gospel.
I hope it will show up areas worthy of closer investigation, draw your own conclusions !
To keep things manageable, not everything will be listed in all 3 categories, check the differences for yourself


Cubendo related:


+++ drum editor
+++ best context sensitive mouse modifiers (alt+click etc), arguable
+++ Logical Editors
+-- Variaudio instead of Melodyne, not as refined but quite useable, unfortunately longstanding unfixed timing bugs
+++ decent set of KCs and quirky but capable Generic Remote (up to C6.5)
--- KCs and GR severely crippled by messed up focus system, list of commands not including many of the new features (C7.0 onwards)



Reaper related:


+++ configurability, KCs
+++ skins
++ multitrack audio handling, folders
+++ multi-out VSTi track presets incl. nested groups
--- no real GR alternative for plugin control afaics
-+- Melodyne needed extra, bringing the price up to S-1 level
-++ feels a bit alien coming from Cubendo, but offers many cool new approaches in return
+++ Color Themes iBM
+++ Drag'n'drop routing (even sends etc) iBM
+++ Open/close for Folder tracks in the mixer (may be theme dependent) iBM
+++ Click and swipe Solo and Mute (Project page and Mixer) iBM
+++ Click and swipe Record Enable/Disable (Project page and Mixer) iBM
+++ Clear Visuals of Plugins inserted, and their status iBM
+++ Very Nice Track Manager (Visibility List in TCP and MCP +++) iBM


Studio One related:


+++ best controller implementation by far
+++ Melodyne included
+++ folder handling
+++ phase coherent editing of multiple tracks, including free warp (!) - no strings attached, just group the tracks and edit one of them, the others will follow
+++ Event FX - a welcome touch of Samplitude
+++ the freezing system appears to be very well done
+++ relatively easy to learn if you're familiar with Cubendo
-+- the list of available KCs in S-1 is considerably smaller than those of Cubendo & Reaper, remains to be seen how much I would miss - different workflow concepts
+++ Mastering features worth the price alone. iBM
+++ Update your changed mix in the Mastering project w/ one click. iBM
+++ Drag'n'drop "everywhere" (even export to folder/desktop by dragging in the file browser, or straight to folder/desktop). iBM
+++ Fast and efficient regarding cpu use iBM
+++ S-1's context based mapping system called Control Link is a quantum leap, especially when you need customized plugin control instead of a ready-made protocol like HUI
+++ Studio One will notify you of missing MIDI devices and offers to rescan without rebooting

much more to come, all ymmv, please correct / explain how / add wherever applicable !

Rhino

edit :
I'm more focused on Studio One right now, also because the demo is time limited, but any Reaper related experience is more than welcome and I will check that out in due time, same for any "Cubendo features I would miss" stuff
for any discussion beyond feature- and workflow comparison of the three hosts named in the title you can always pm me or start a thread of your own

Last edited by akaRhino; 16th July 2014 at 07:37 PM.. Reason: master list - work in progress
Old 15th July 2014
  #3
Lives for gear
 

I don't think this is the right place for this thread. You should open it in the general 'Music Computer" section. I don't see many Cubendo users here on the fence either; actually just primarily you and iBM/Bredo.

Don't take this as just another opportunity for your (destructive) critisism, complains and moaning. If you want to move on, please do so and have a happy life with Reaper/S1. No one - except yourself - stops you from doing it.
Old 15th July 2014
  #4
Lives for gear
 

This sub-forum has become a gigantic moan zone. Something I personally do not like.
That's all I'd like to say; please respect my opinion.
I have never participated in the official Steinberg forums.
Thanks.
Old 15th July 2014
  #5
Gear Maniac
 

Thanks for the contributions, folks.
If they are any indication of Cubendo's future target audience, this is one more justification for investigating alternatives.
ymmv,
Rhino
Old 15th July 2014
  #6
Lives for gear
 

akaRhino, it would have been TOTALLY okay from my point of view to open and discuss this subject here if not you opened this thread. I am not guilty that you are not able to take responsibility and MAKE A DECISION!

You and iBM/Bredo are LITERALLY talking about to change DAW's since YEARS. It is NOT my fault that you are afraid to take the plunge. I am NOT guilty.

If you are working with a DAW you have to believe in it, you have to trust it. Sure you can criticize it; sure you can moan about missing features. BUT NOT FOR YEARS!

It's similar to a relationship: If the trust is totally gone and you don't believe in a positive change anymore deep inside your heart, you have to change something.
Old 15th July 2014
  #7
Quote:
Originally Posted by akaRhino View Post
Hi folks,
in light of Cubendo's uncertain future
Is there some news I'm not aware of.... why is the future uncertain for Cubendo?
Old 15th July 2014
  #8
Gear Maniac
 

The more I work with S-1, the more cool stuff I discover
+++ phase coherent editing of multiple tracks, including free warp (!) - no strings attached, just group the tracks and edit one of them, the others will follow
+++ Event FX - a welcome touch of Samplitude
+++ the freezing system appears to be very well done, not my personal #1 requirement, but might be a huge advantage to others

goes without saying, this can only be a first-glance check right now on my part, how stable or buggy these features are in everyday use remains to be seen.
Any hands-on reports about your personal experience would be much appreciated, for Reaper just the same.

ymmv,
Rhino
Old 15th July 2014
  #9
Gear Maniac
 

Huh? Uncertain future?
Old 15th July 2014
  #10
Gear Maniac
 

-+- the list of available KCs in S-1 is considerably smaller than those of Cubendo & Reaper, remains to be seen how much I would miss - different workflow concepts

ymmv,
Rhino
Old 15th July 2014
  #11
Deleted #297939
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by color View Post
actually just primarily you and iBM/Bredo.
As for your information, you are the 4th person stepping in the dirt here (you smartass detectives, you ).

I am not Bredo. Please consult the Steinberg moderators for info (they had to appologize, on the borderline of crawling).

If you are to assume things, you are actually making a fool out of your self.

I have continued this in a PM to you, so for further nagging please keep it offline.

PS. Who are you by the way?

@Rhino - I just couldn't let this slip. Sorry it happened in your excellent thread, in which I will participate in (on a constructive level - used S1 in'n'out for a couple of years).

Back on topic (that goes for all of you).
Old 15th July 2014
  #12
Gear Maniac
 

Hello iBM,
no damage done.
One thing the forum programmers could adopt from real consoles :
we need mute groups ...
Lol,
Rhino

Looking forward to a healthy discussion among those who are interested !
Everybody has their own special areas of interest, and we can share the results here. No need for everybody to evaluate all the complex functions of 3 hosts on their own. it's called teamwork.
Old 16th July 2014
  #13
Deleted #297939
Guest
You can copy the +++ and --- to one list. Have not much time right now, but here's a start (trying not to repeat excisting).

+++ S1 Mastering features worth the price alone.
+++ S1 Update your changed mix in the Mastering project w/ one click.
+++ S1 Drag'n'drop "everywhere" (even export to folder/desktop by dragging in the file browser, or straight to folder/desktop).
+++ S1 Fast and efficient regarding cpu use

+++ Reaper Color Themes
+++ Reaper Drag'n'drop routing (even sends etc)
+++ Reaper Open/close for Folder tracks in the mixer (may be theme dependent)
+++ Reaper Click and swipe Solo and Mute (Project page and Mixer)
+++ Reaper Click and swipe Record Enable/Disable (Project page and Mixer)
+++ Reaper Clear Visuals of Plugins inserted, and their status
+++ Reaper Very Nice Track Manager (Visibility List in TCP and MCP +++)

PS. I will add to this list as I go (mainly going for things we don't have in Cubendo)

More will come, but I am still at vacation for some time

Last edited by Deleted #297939; 16th July 2014 at 07:47 AM.. Reason: Adding to the list
Old 16th July 2014
  #14
Gear Maniac
 

OK, from now on I'll try and update post 2 with all relevant contributions.
Please notify me of any copy'n'paste errors, and by all means, keep expanding the list !
iBM, thanks for some good stuff !
cheers,
Rhino
Old 18th July 2014
  #15
Gear Maniac
 

Please move to 'Music Computers'...
Old 18th July 2014
  #16
Gear Maniac
 

After some initial setup troubles (my own fault, didn't reset the BCRs to factory default ), S-1's context based mapping system called Control Link wipes the floor with everything else, not least including Cubendo.
Think Automap without the wrappers ...
And it is quite intuitive to setup, too, as long as you use the BCR's default setup.
If Control Link turns out to be stable 24/7, this is a killer feature !

ymmv,
Rhino
Old 19th July 2014
  #17
Lives for gear
 

What is the uncertain future of Cubendo referred to in the OP?
Old 19th July 2014
  #18
Gear Maniac
 

maybe a small one, but it's three or four annoyances less at the end of the day :
Studio One will notify you of missing MIDI devices and offers to rescan without rebooting - thought from a user perspective, nice !
Old 20th July 2014
  #19
Gear Maniac
 

#

Cubase vs. Studio One - in my experiences...


here are some collected disadvantages about Studio One:

- MIDI is absolutely rudimentary.
- No drum editor.
- No score editor.
- S1 has no proper Audio Editor.
- waveform view is blurry!
- No real Instrument Tracks.
- S1 has not the ability to add CC data to a single MIDI note.
- S1 doesn't handle OMF files.
- No Split Arrange / Toggle Track List.
- When previewing loops sometimes S1 do it wrong.
- Studio One currently has no beat detection.
- No Non-Linear Sequencing (Cubase´s Arranger Track).
- No S-type (logarithmic, exponential) curve to fade-in and fade-out.
- S1's media management is an absolute pathetic joke compared to the power of Cubase´s Mediabay.
- No split an imported stereo track into 2 mono tracks.
- No input gain in the mixer.
- No phase button in the mixer.
- Strip Silence is a joke in S1 compared with Cubase´s or PT.
- S1 has no warp-to-picture. In Cubase: easy.
- No VST Expressions.
- S1 has no Surround options.
- No Chord Track.
- No Part-Editor.
- No dual panning in the mixer.
- No Project Logical Editor.
- No channel button global Insert FX on/off.
- No channel buttons FX and sends on/off.
- No Control Room.
- No Note Expression.
- No In Place Editor.
- No Midi Plugins.
- No global on/off for automation.
- No Global Transpose (Audio & Midi).
- No Volume Envelope Events.
- No Track Controls.
- No Mixer Reset Button.
- No "set timecode at now" option.
- No Quick Controls, e.g. in inspector.
- No export/bounce virtual instrument tracks in mono!
- Studio One is absolutely lacking in Film Scoring.
- It doesn't have the same level of hardware support, the routing is very limited.
- The included plug ins are not the greatest. Stock plugins are a joke (e.g. one weak Synth and Sample Player with very old soundfont libraries...)
- Horrible support for control surfaces except for the (Surprise!) FaderPort. MCU support sucks, really bad.
- Doesn't have descent panning (only one slider!). This can be fixed with the pan plugin. (But using a plugin to pan something...?)
- Loop browser doesn't work properly. Loops don't sync correctly to tempo, and when i open my Virus TI it gets even worse, nothing syncs.

etc. etc. etc.



I have no time at the moment, so I will try to mention only a few points.

...More to come, stay tuned....



regards,
Nights.
Old 20th July 2014
  #20
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by color View Post
I don't think this is the right place for this thread. You should open it in the general 'Music Computer" section. I don't see many Cubendo users here on the fence either; actually just primarily you and iBM/Bredo.

Don't take this as just another opportunity for your (destructive) critisism, complains and moaning. If you want to move on, please do so and have a happy life with Reaper/S1.
No one - except yourself - stops you from doing it.
+ 1 !

That is absolutely correct and we must vigorously condemn them. Sorry.


N.
Old 20th July 2014
  #21
Deleted User
Guest
@Nightshifter

Even with all those things missing as you say I still find myself messing with S1 more than Cubase these days, go figure. I did them both honestly
Old 20th July 2014
  #22
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by iBM View Post

+++ S1 Mastering features worth the price alone.
really...? I don't take it seriously. But okay, it´s a nice add-on for hobbyists.
I prefer Wavelab 8.


Quote:
Originally Posted by iBM View Post
+++ S1 Drag'n'drop "everywhere" (even export to folder/desktop by dragging in the file browser, or straight to folder/desktop).
The same applies to Cubase´s Mixing Console V7.x (!) e.g. ...


Quote:
Originally Posted by iBM View Post
+++ S1 Fast and efficient regarding cpu use
dependents on your hardware/mainboard/CPU etc.
And this applies to all DAW´s...


Quote:
Originally Posted by iBM View Post
+++ Reaper Color Themes
yes, Imperial theme (e.g.) looks very good, but unsurprisingly it's an absolute impractical GUI.
And the rest of the Reaper´s menue and plugin GUI looks like Office 95 - ugly...



I must add:

-- Reaper´s Midi.
-- Reaper´s on board Plugins.
--- Reaper´s GUI is not from a cast (menue, plugins etc.) not the skins (mixer)!
---- as a beginner you will need to set up everything (...)



My opinion.

N.
Old 20th July 2014
  #23
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by akaRhino View Post
+++ Event FX - a welcome touch of Samplitude
Yes, a nice feature!

But often it´s more or less useless, because for E´ FX there is no automation...



N.
Old 20th July 2014
  #24
Gear Maniac
 
jjeffers's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightshifter View Post
yes, Imperial theme (e.g.) looks very good, but unsurprisingly it's an absolute impractical GUI.
And the rest of the Reaper´s menue and plugin GUI looks like Office 95 - ugly...
Agreed. I want to like Reaper, but it's so damn ugly and cluttered. The FX and I/O popup windows...ugh. I don't know, maybe once you get used to it, it's OK. But every time I try to dig into it, I get discouraged by the interface.
Old 20th July 2014
  #25
Lives for gear
 

I ask again ... akaRhino, can you please explain what you meant by "in light of Cubendo's uncertain future ..." , from your starting post in this thread? Was there an announcement made? ... or some insight you have? If the latter, I would like to hear if you would please ...

Thanks!
Old 20th July 2014
  #26
Lives for gear
 
Robert Randolph's Avatar
 

Quote:
- MIDI is absolutely rudimentary.

- S1 has no proper Audio Editor.
Can you elaborate on these with some factual information?

Quote:
- When previewing loops sometimes S1 do it wrong.
How? What is wrong?

Quote:
- Studio One currently has no beat detection.
It definitely does, and it's more capable than Cubase's. Everything that can be done in Cubase can be done in S1 as far as I can tell by reading the manuals.

S1 can do manual multitrack audiowarping and groove application. Cubase can not.
S1 can do manual warping in the main timeline. Cubase can not.

I can not find anything relative to beat detection and subsequent operations that Cubase is superior on.


Quote:
- S1's media management is an absolute pathetic joke compared to the power of Cubase´s Mediabay.
Please elaborate. What is missing?

Quote:
- Strip Silence is a joke in S1 compared with Cubase´s or PT.
Please elaborate. What is missing? What goes wrong?

Quote:
- No VST Expressions.
- No Chord Track.
- No Part-Editor.
- No Project Logical Editor.
- No Control Room.
- No Note Expression.
What are these things? This is not helpful at all if you're not already a Cubase user.


Quote:
- No Track Controls.
What? What do you mean by this?

Quote:
- No Quick Controls, e.g. in inspector.
What is a 'Quick Control'?

Quote:
- Studio One is absolutely lacking in Film Scoring.
How? What is missing?

Quote:
- It doesn't have the same level of hardware support, the routing is very limited.
How? What is missing? What is better?

Quote:
- The included plug ins are not the greatest. Stock plugins are a joke (e.g. one weak Synth and Sample Player with very old soundfont libraries...)
You are aware that S1 comes with more plugins than that I hope? The Virtual Instrument inclusions are definitely lacking, but it would be nice if you explained what Cubase has that is better.

Quote:
- Horrible support for control surfaces except for the (Surprise!) FaderPort. MCU support sucks, really bad.
What sucks? What is bad? What is it missing?



You really need to present some sort of information. Presenting your opinions as a list of facts is not helpful, especially when it was completely one-sided and filled with buzzwords that have no meaning except to other cubase users.
Old 20th July 2014
  #27
Lives for gear
 

This thread is an inevitable train wreck where someone would very predictably repost that long list of S1 flaws (yet again) where some of it is just plain misleading at best and very clearly factually wrong at worst.

But it's a Cubase forum board so that's expected, that really predictable reaction. I actually agree with them that doing that here can't lead to anything but bickering.

Which is why I have no intention or desire to refute some of the clearly wrong things in that list (yet again), as that zombie propaganda con list that pops up everywhere this discussion happens will just pop up later again in another thread anyway.

It's like Fox News. You clearly refute something factually but they keep saying it anyway.
Old 20th July 2014
  #28
Lives for gear
 
apartment dog's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeffers View Post
Agreed. I want to like Reaper, but it's so damn ugly and cluttered. The FX and I/O popup windows...ugh. I don't know, maybe once you get used to it, it's OK. But every time I try to dig into it, I get discouraged by the interface.
That's a pity since there are a lot of very nice looking UI's.
I use JanneUniverse 2014 and also like WT Dead Ringer Colonial 4000XL pro (special for smaller screens) and L2 system.
You can also adjust it anyway you want it.
Old 20th July 2014
  #29
Lives for gear
 
Robert Randolph's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by apartment dog View Post
That's a pity since there are a lot of very nice looking UI's.
I use JanneUniverse 2014 and also like WT Dead Ringer Colonial 4000XL pro (special for smaller screens) and L2 system.
You can also adjust it anyway you want it.
The UI skins don't change the UX issues. So many menus and floating windows.
Old 20th July 2014
  #30
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexis View Post
I ask again ...

akaRhino, can you please explain what you meant by "in light of Cubendo's uncertain future ..." ,
from your starting post in this thread?
Was there an announcement made? ...
or some insight you have?
If the latter, I would like to hear if you would please ...

Thanks!
Me too.




@Lawrence:
your comment was spurious and unnecessary.



regards,
N.



.
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