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Cubendo > S-1 > Reaper DAW Software
Old 23rd July 2014
  #61
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Robert Randolph's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus909 View Post
I don't have time to respond to all of them now, but check this post for responses to Mediabay, Chord Track, Note Expression, and Arranger Track:
Studio One V2 or Cubase 7?

In the meantime you can Google or find youtube videos on most if not all of the other features.
I saw your other post, thank you. I've already researched most of these things, but your post had some excellent videos I've not come across yet.
Old 23rd July 2014
  #62
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norbury brook's Avatar
 

Robert.


I've been a Cubase user since Atari days, which I can't quite believe is 25 years ago nearly. I've also been a Reaper user/Supporter since version 1.x

I've made great records on both systems.

I've been using Cubase as my main DAW for a couple of years now and here's why;

I have Steinberg Hardware and Euphonix controllers. With the Steinberg hardware I have in conjunction with Cubase/Nuendo the ability to have zero latency cue mixes with DSP fx all full controlled from the Cubase input mixer. I do not need another 'layer' of the Audio cards mixer to have to deal with, it's all totally integrated into Cubase, so I can change the HP filters on the mic pre's, phantom power, add great Rev-x reverb to the cue mix etc etc all from within Cubase.

Also, when tracking I don't have to worry about latency at all. Here's a common scenario; you're heavily into a mix, and you decide you want to re do or add an instrument/voice. Now because it's a large project and you've got a ton of plugins you've upped your project buffers to 1024 .

With my system it's no problem, I just add the track, arm it send a bit of reverb to the talent and hit record, all they hear is latency free mix with reverb in their cans.

In Reaper you'd have to either open up some kind of Cue mix and route using direct monitoring and use a hardware reverb etc or it would be impossible because of the latency to monitor through the software.

Eucon is included with Cubase and the integration is first class. Someone has written a reaper patch to use eucon but it's basic and unsupported with Reaper.


Scoring and VST expression and video handling if you were a film composer would also be a major concern when deciding. I wouldn't like to have to do that in reaper, although I'll qualify that by saying I haven't tried it and aobviously reaper hasn't got any scoring or note expression.


Reaper is a great program and I love the whole ethos of the company, I actually really like their forums as there are some great people over there who are doing some great work on both sides of the fence.

I've used Reaper as my Live recording DAW for a long time now and it's never let me down and I'd have no problem recommending it to anyone.

Things may change in the future but at the moment the whole Steinberg hardware/software 'Holistic' system is just hard to beat.



MC
Old 23rd July 2014
  #63
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Reaper is really a marvel of an application.

Where things kinda go into Disneyland is with the cause and effect of doing all the things they do really well with it while at the same time (some) implying that there are no negative side effects to that. There are. It's a give and take like with most things and engineering decisions are never all upside.

It's audio engine is arguably one of the best ever. It's API and scripting goes far, far beyond any other workstation I've ever seen, mmv where it applies.

On the downside the development, while steady and good, is a little scattered. It would obviously benefit from - some, a wee touch - of the corporate mindset it tries so hard to avoid as relates to design and general consistency.

But that's not it's thing.

But if you were to take the - general idea - of Reaper along with some sort of more consistent long term planning, it would be something even more to behold.

For something that a guy just sat down one day to write with no real long term expectations (it seems to me he wasn't trying to "challenge" anything, but just writing something that he'd want to use), the result is fantastic.

For me, S1 kinda fits right in the middle of those two, Cubase and Reaper. It has the consistency I prefer and it has enough of that small team ethos to keep it interesting (innovative etc) and somewhat nimble.

Cubase: Rather large install that takes a good bit of time. Licensing a good bit more restrictive than the two others, patches and fixes not so easily applied or delivered.
S1: Much smaller install with much quicker install or updates. License is much more open and way less restrictive than Cubase, there are no patches, just quick installs.
Reaper: Tiny app, ridiculously fast install. License is as close to being freeware as can be reasonably possible, there are no patches, just super quick installs.

So I find S1 to be a nice balance between the things I like about Cubase and Reaper.
Old 23rd July 2014
  #64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence View Post
Cubase: Rather large install that takes a good bit of time. Licensing a good bit more restrictive than the two others, patches and fixes not so easily applied or delivered.
Just a short note here: Cubase takes long to install due to the sample content delivered with it, i.e. LoopMash, Reverence, Halion SE etc. Deselecting this or simply only using the 64 bit Cubase installer avoids all of this and gets you done in 30 seconds or so, just like the Nuendo installer.
Old 23rd July 2014
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAW PLUS View Post
Just a short note here: Cubase takes long to install due to the sample content delivered with it, i.e. LoopMash, Reverence, Halion SE etc. Deselecting this or simply only using the 64 bit Cubase installer avoids all of this and gets you done in 30 seconds or so, just like the Nuendo installer.
Yes, you can just skip the auto-installer routines and dig out the individual installer(s), at least on the DVD, not sure about the demo download. It still takes a good bit longer to acquire and install and update the application than either of those other two so the basic point is still relevant.

Even the demo seems... "more prohibitive" ... being such a large size. I own Cubase 5 and I don't really want to download any content just to demo Cubase 7's basic UI and workflow, so their approach there is a little more irritating than most. I think the last demo I tried was 3.x GB. But they might have changed some of that. I haven't tried in awhile.

That's one of Reaper's strength's, that you can download it and be demoing it in like, 2 minutes. Maybe more like 5-7 minutes with S1 which is mostly download time, the installer takes about 15-20 seconds.
Old 23rd July 2014
  #66
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greggybud's Avatar
While akaRhino might not be getting the results he was hoping for in this thread, I think both Norbury and Lawrence's prior posts are very balanced and accurate. As said I have no experience with either, so my observations are just based on word of mouth and prior forum posts.

Norbury:
"Eucon is included with Cubase and the integration is first class."
I think you are referring to controller protocol just like Mackie correct? Or am I missing something?

Robert: At some point you probably have to take the plunge and gamble on purchasing a dongle just to try C7. But only if the additional features seem attractive to you of course.
Old 26th July 2014
  #67
Lives for gear
Quote:
Cubase: Rather large install that takes a good bit of time
I read stuff on the internet and often it leaves me scratching head,

How many times do you install things!!

I installed Cubase once on my workstation 7 years ago and that was it.

Now I have a new workstation (just arrived:-) I will install Cubase 7.5 and no doubt be using it (or a later iteration) in another 7 years time.

Now without going deeply into the maths I imagine the total time of installing Cubase on those two workstations over the total of 14 years I will of used them will represent about 0.00000001% of those 14 years (as a representative guess) actually I think this post has taken me about as long as it takes to install Cubase 7.5 (which about 3 minutes onto an SSD including all the content

sheeesh people have no patience these days :-)
Old 27th July 2014
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thehightenor View Post
I read stuff on the internet and often it leaves me scratching head
As do I.

Quote:
sheeesh people have no patience these days :-)
I hear you. Waiting 2-3 hours for a software demo to download on my DSL and then getting cut off 500 mb before it finishes and having to start all over again is just... really impatient. You'd think they'd want to make it easy for people to demo their product... not assume everyone has a blazing net connection.

Not sure what your SSD has to do with a 3 gb download. :-)

Anywho, it's a great product.
Old 7th August 2014
  #69
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cubic13's Avatar
 

Well...

I left Cubase 7.0.6 last december for Reaper, definitely disappointed by C7 and unable to use it as previous Cubase versions. So, I considered at this time (and still do...) that my long path with cubase was coming to an end. From which, I can only actually and decently compare this Cubase version to Reaper 4.62. I can't talk about Studio One, never having see it working.

I'll try to be as honest as possible, even if I have a long list of gripes against C7 and the way Steiny has managed its features and their implementation (mainly, UI regressions, MixConsole, resources needed and useless features such as the RCE). So, here is my list :

Cubase :
+++ MIDI implementation
+++ Retrospective record
++ Score editor
++ Track inspector
++ Audio editor
++ Overall easiness to use for a beginner
+ Input transformer
+ Drum editor
+ Multiouts VSTis setting
- Customization
- Keyboard shortcuts (if I had to rate C6.5 and previous versions, it would be +)
- Manual audio warp
- UI (if I had to rate C6.5 and previous versions, it would be ++)
- Generic Remote Device
-- MixConsole
-- VST 2.x compatibility
-- Mediabay
-- Installation and licence handling
-- Resources used


Reaper :
+++ Resources used
+++ Customization ('Walter' scripts language, even if it has its limitations...)
+++ JSFX and Reascript (developement environment)
++ Easy and flexible installation (including portable one) and licence handling
++ Input FXs
++ Full VST 2.x compatibility
++ No input tranformer, but the ability to develop your own functions allows much more powerful things than this one
++ manual audio warp (the stretch markers are gems...)
+ Actions (including cycle ones) and keyboard shortcuts
+ Remote control (OSCII-bot is your friend for efficient RPN/NRPN messages handling)
+ simple and efficient mixer, including folders handling
- MIDI implementation
- Audio editor (but I can do everything needed in the arrange view)
- Multiouts VSTis setting (a nightmare at first, but once you get used to it...)
- Overall easiness to use for a beginner
-- No track inspector (you can have an equivalent, using screensets, but well...)
-- Score editor
--- Retrospective record (the one I'm missing the most...)

I didn't talk about VST3, note expressions, chord tracks, etc. Simply because I never felt the need to use them. So, I admit that my list is biased in some way, but it's the result of a personal experience of a hobbist using a host and thus, more or less reflects what I feel important to see in it.

Overall, and for anyone considering the switch, Reaper really shines if you are ready to take the time to customize it as much as possible. I found that, after several months of use, I can do with Reaper almost everything I could do with Cubase, and even more, thanks to Walter, JSFX and Reascripts. Actually, the only thing that I'm really missing is the Cubase 'Retrospective record' feature. And, as Reaper uses much less resources and is more flexible than Cubase...
Old 7th August 2014
  #70
Deleted #297939
Guest
Nice cubic13

And I have seen your theme for Reaper , but not tested yet
Old 8th August 2014
  #71
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cubic13's Avatar
 

Thanks, iBM !

And I have just uploaded a new version (cosmetic changes, only, but well...).
Old 17th August 2014
  #72
Deleted #297939
Guest
I have used some time to watch these Reaper videos from Groove3.com:
Reaper 4 Explained and Reaper Signal Flow Explained.

And wow. I am quite impressed with a lot of things (and I can see from where many of the feature requests are coming ;-)).

I got a free 30-day pass from Eventide for all videos, and of corse their own UltraChannel, which I got for free through the Pro-Tools Expert community.

If you are serious about trying out Reaper, all the Reaper videos there (hosted ny Kenny Gioia) should be very interesting.

+++ Mouse modifiers - There's lots and lots of actions you can assign to buttons and clicks.
+++ Great Docking system - Docked or floating windows, whatever rocks your boat.
+++ The extended Item/take options/FX (aka Events) - Event-FX in spades.
+++ Extended Track Manager - Easy in operation, many many tasks availeable, besides showing/hiding tracks and mixer channels.
+++ Great Record Modes - Auto-punch based on Items (events), as many times pr track you want. You can even draw in empty ones for puching in/out.
+++ Mono and stereo sources can be used on the same track - can even fade in/out of mono to stereo for some great creative effects.

The themes and configuration possibilities are of corse mentioned before, and many things we can in Cubendo as well. But very often in a more "difficult" way.

I am so sorry this thread were destroyed, by people that didn't see the purpose of this thread. But.......

....But for those interested, go check out some of those videos. And....

....And please see through chapters you think you know. There are lots of small a-ha moments in there (can you do that so easy???)
Old 26th August 2014
  #73
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norbury brook's Avatar
 

A big thing that still isn't in Reaper is a pencil tool to redraw waveforms, it's a tool I use all the time to manually draw/smooth out vocal imperfections/clicks etc.

I put a feature request in for this at the v 1.x stage.


MC
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