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Cubase 6.0.4 / Artist 6.0.4 / Elements 6.0.4 pre-announcement.
Old 10th September 2011
  #31
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So... is Cubase 5 more reliable than 6?
If so, which version of 5 is the best?

Oh, is C5 OK on W7?

Thanks
Old 10th September 2011
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABBA View Post
So... is Cubase 5 more reliable than 6?
If so, which version of 5 is the best?

Oh, is C5 OK on W7?

Thanks
Cubase 5.5 was perfect for me on xp32bit and since i upgraded my system i updated to Cubase 6 (6.0.3 at the minute) all is great on win 7 64bit (minus a few plugin developers straggling behind in the 64bit area, but of course this is not steinbergs fault)

Graham
Old 10th September 2011
  #33
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"""""""Thanks to your help, we identified five critical issues..."""""

No, not issues, problems. They aren't things to negotiate, they are things to repair.

Software companies started this "issues" code-speak because they didn't like admitting that they had released software which was riddled with problems.

tutt

If you get a flat tire at midnight, you don't have an issue, you have a problem.
Old 10th September 2011
  #34
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The very last release 5.5.3 is very stable. I used 5.0.1 for a long time before I finally upgraded to fix a bug in audio mixdown with external effects. 5.0.1 has a bug for that, in 5.5.3 it is fixed.

-Gary
Old 10th September 2011
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soundpalace View Post
This is useful in VSTis that let you process an input with effects, e.g. the Virus TI Atomizer feature . Personally, I can think of quite a few things that would be more important like easier bounce in place, improved mixer and simpler multitimbral VSTi implementation.
Bounce in place! I've been wanting this for years!
Old 10th September 2011
  #36
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Doesnt C6 have Bounce in place??
Old 10th September 2011
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorydom View Post
Bounce in place! I've been wanting this for years!
Quote:
Originally Posted by shanabit View Post
Doesnt C6 have Bounce in place??
Yes it's called bounce selection. Must be something else Ivorydomn has wanted for years!
Old 11th September 2011
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stella645 View Post
Yes it's called bounce selection. Must be something else Ivorydomn has wanted for years!
Im referring to the ability to right click on a MIDI part and bounce to audio in one click or select a range on an audio track and bounce with effects with one click. If I have missed this please let me know

The bounce option I am aware of only bounces audio edits to a new clip.
Old 11th September 2011
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soundpalace View Post
Im referring to the ability to right click on a MIDI part and bounce to audio in one click or select a range on an audio track and bounce with effects with one click. If I have missed this please let me know

The bounce option I am aware of only bounces audio edits to a new clip.
I think with midi, you can freeze/unfreeze and keep audio.

With audio, if you bounced with fx on, wouldn't you have to move it to another track or disable all the fx + level on that track? Seems like batch exporting that track and into project is a better option since it retains all the fx/level but won't be placed into the same track for double dipping.
Old 11th September 2011
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blacklion View Post
I think with midi, you can freeze/unfreeze and keep audio.

With audio, if you bounced with fx on, wouldn't you have to move it to another track or disable all the fx + level on that track? Seems like batch exporting that track and into project is a better option since it retains all the fx/level but won't be placed into the same track for double dipping.
Well, freeze doesn't really work the way you would hope, it creates audio files (behind the scenes) and cuts the clip at the point at which it feels is appropriate. Regarding bouncing an audio track with effects, once again, it's about simplicity. Both of these tasks can be done with audio export but they are much more time consuming:

e.g.

1) Set the range appropriately
2) Open Audio Mixdown window
3) Find the track amongst the many many tracks and select it
4) Ensure that import to Audio Track & Pool are ticked
5) Choose a name for the file and a location (even though you know you want it copied into the project Audio folder)
6) Change the bitrate as you will most likely want a 24 or 32 bit render
6) Click Export
7) Then answer the dialogue box and tell Cubase you want the audio file copied to the project folder

What I'm looking for is

1) Right click on MIDI region or select a range on an instrument track
2) Click Bounce Selection

A new audio track gets created below the MIDI track with my audio bounced so that I can manipulate it. This is how Logic does it

The point of this is not to export a full project for use on another DAW or similar, it's about rendering a small portion of a tune with effects so that you can chop it up, reverse it and do other weird and wonderful things to it
Old 11th September 2011
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soundpalace View Post

1) Set the range appropriately
2) Open Audio Mixdown window
3) Find the track amongst the many many tracks and select it
4) Ensure that import to Audio Track & Pool are ticked
5) Choose a name for the file and a location (even though you know you want it copied into the project Audio folder)
6) Change the bitrate as you will most likely want a 24 or 32 bit render
6) Click Export
7) Then answer the dialogue box and tell Cubase you want the audio file copied to the project folder
yes, and there's more :

8) Cubase creates a new audio track at the bottom of the project window
9) Scroll down the project window to find the god damn track
10) Grab that audio track and bring it up to where it was previously

Why can't Cubase create automatically a new audio track right after the previous one when you export an audio file ?



That's the way it is in C5.5 anyway, but maybe this has been improved in C6.
Old 11th September 2011
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sluttypat View Post
yes, and there's more :

8) Cubase creates a new audio track at the bottom of the project window
9) Scroll down the project window to find the god damn track
10) Grab that audio track and bring it up to where it was previously

Why can't Cubase create automatically a new audio track right after the previous one when you export an audio file ?



That's the way it is in C5.5 anyway, but maybe this has been improved in C6.
Good point, and I don't think this has changed in C6 but I'll check and let you know.
Old 11th September 2011
  #43
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By the way, for me, the absolute best improvement in Cubase 6 is the automation!!! Ability to grab a range of points and slant them left or right is amazing and I've used it many times in tracks already when I wouldn't have an easy solution previously.

I also love the overall new look and feel, it truly is an amazing app. Just a shame Steiny don't like their customers :(
Old 11th September 2011
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soundpalace View Post
By the way, for me, the absolute best improvement in Cubase 6 is the automation!!! Ability to grab a range of points and slant them left or right is amazing and I've used it many times in tracks already when I wouldn't have an easy solution previously.

I also love the overall new look and feel, it truly is an amazing app. :(

C6 x64 running like a champ here, loving the new comp/takes feature for vocal comping.


MC
Old 11th September 2011
  #45
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Beyersound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundpalace View Post
Just a shame Steiny don't like their customers :(
What gives you that idea? Please elaborate. Cheers
Old 11th September 2011
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beyersound View Post
What gives you that idea? Please elaborate. Cheers
I think it really comes down to lack of care or response to their customers. If you check out their forums and see the way they reply to customers, it's often quite patronising. Whether or not this reflects the entire company or not is a different matter, but many of the moderators on their forum are not very polite, however there are some (newer?) moderators like JHP who seem much more helpful.

I say this having beta tested for several companies and working closely with large companies at work where we report and work through issues together. At the end of the day, a company's customers are their best source of information and ultimately revenue and having the vendor we are working with listen to us has actually improved their product significantly.

For example, the thread about automation points hiding unexpectedly: www.steinberg.net • View topic - 6.03 - Automation points: Bug or By Design?

page 2: After many customers explaining a change of behaviour and how it was heavily impacting their workflow, we get "By design" reply from Chris.

This problem had huge amounts of people jumping on their forum to say it's driving them crazy, yet 6.04 came out with the same problem. They should of at least reverted it to 6.02 behaviour with 6.04.

My comment is heavily based on what I've seen in the past (the cubase.net days), perhaps they have improved recently?

End of the day, Cubase is a really great piece of software, I just wish Steinberg would let us help improve it
Old 11th September 2011
  #47
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Beyersound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundpalace View Post
I think it really comes down to lack of care or response to their customers. If you check out their forums and see the way they reply to customers, it's often quite patronising. Whether or not this reflects the entire company or not is a different matter, but many of the moderators on their forum are not very polite, however there are some (newer?) moderators like JHP who seem much more helpful.

I say this having beta tested for several companies and working closely with large companies at work where we report and work through issues together. At the end of the day, a company's customers are their best source of information and ultimately revenue and having the vendor we are working with listen to us has actually improved their product significantly.

For example, the thread about automation points hiding unexpectedly: www.steinberg.net • View topic - 6.03 - Automation points: Bug or By Design?

page 2: After many customers explaining a change of behaviour and how it was heavily impacting their workflow, we get "By design" reply from Chris.

This problem had huge amounts of people jumping on their forum to say it's driving them crazy, yet 6.04 came out with the same problem. They should of at least reverted it to 6.02 behaviour with 6.04.

My comment is heavily based on what I've seen in the past (the cubase.net days), perhaps they have improved recently?

End of the day, Cubase is a really great piece of software, I just wish Steinberg would let us help improve it
I wasn't incredibly fond of the forum as well. The one issue I had, I addressed directly with their support. Their support is now based at Yamaha, and vastly improved. Yamaha has always been great with support, and I was glad to see them take charge of the Steinberg support. I think in time things will be improved company wide at Steinberg. I have had much uglier dealings in the past with Digi/Avid supporting 2 PTHD systems, I am absolutely through with them.
Old 11th September 2011
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soundpalace View Post
I think it really comes down to lack of care or response to their customers. If you check out their forums and see the way they reply to customers, it's often quite patronising. Whether or not this reflects the entire company or not is a different matter, but many of the moderators on their forum are not very polite, however there are some (newer?) moderators like JHP who seem much more helpful.

I say this having beta tested for several companies and working closely with large companies at work where we report and work through issues together. At the end of the day, a company's customers are their best source of information and ultimately revenue and having the vendor we are working with listen to us has actually improved their product significantly.

For example, the thread about automation points hiding unexpectedly: www.steinberg.net • View topic - 6.03 - Automation points: Bug or By Design?

page 2: After many customers explaining a change of behaviour and how it was heavily impacting their workflow, we get "By design" reply from Chris.

This problem had huge amounts of people jumping on their forum to say it's driving them crazy, yet 6.04 came out with the same problem. They should of at least reverted it to 6.02 behaviour with 6.04.

My comment is heavily based on what I've seen in the past (the cubase.net days), perhaps they have improved recently?

End of the day, Cubase is a really great piece of software, I just wish Steinberg would let us help improve it
I detest the changes made to the automation.

I've been trying to get someone's attention for years now about the annoying fact that I/O routing for external FX aren't saved with the project. Recently tech support suggested I email someone in Germany, who responded by suggesting I submit the suggestion to tech support.

If Avid tech support is worse than Steiny's it must really suck.
Old 11th September 2011
  #49
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Soooooo, how is 6.0.4 working out?

6.0.2 x64 has been rock solid here on W7. I feel overall experience on ver 6 has been a very positive one, but I've skipped ver 4 & 5. I might just stay with 6.0.2 until they release the very last version of 6.x.
Old 11th September 2011
  #50
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I think, having had quite a bit of experience with various German friends/companies etc that sometimes the 'German' way can come across as a little rude/impolite etc when translated. I know we are a global community but subtle cultural differences sometimes need to be taken into account.

For example, I had a Nigerian neighbor and she told me that there's no direct translated Nigerian word for 'sorry' so you can imagine how that could offend someone in a social or business situation, likewise passing someone something with your left hand is also a way of showing contempt.


I'm not excusing poor customer relations or basic bad support but sometimes people 'expect' other to behave in the same way they do which is a sure fire recipe for an unhappy life on all levels.


MC
Old 11th September 2011
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steveschizoid View Post

If Avid tech support is worse than Steiny's it must really suck.
You wouldn't believe me if I told you................
Old 11th September 2011
  #52
AjD
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Review: Steinberg's Cubase forum

Interesting comments, Norbury. I've often wondered if there's a cultural difference at work.

Since I installed the Cubase 6 upgrade, I've found myself using Steinberg's support forum regularly. Here's a review of what I've experienced:

1) How-to questions are answered fairly quickly by users, with Steinberg only occasionally posting in the thread. Not a bad thing necessarily, and there's a fairly active userbase. However, if the user responses are incomplete, Steinberg doesn't always reply to elaborate. Sometimes they do, but you can't count on it. Bumping the thread helps get admin attention, and bumping seems to be Steinberg-approved behavior.

2) There's a sticky that tells users Steinberg's preferred format for posting bugs. Clear operational bugs - crashes; something not working the way it's obviously supposed to; etc. - usually merit a fairly quick reply from Steinberg forum admins. The admin will then try to reproduce the problem. If they reproduce it, the admin will usually tell you they've "reported" the problem to the developers.

3) There's a stickied "bugbase" that lists some of the bugs that have been reproduced. Only Steinberg can post to this list. It's not entirely clear what criteria is used to merit a bug's inclusion on the bugbase.

4) Once Steinberg adds a bug to the bugbase, a timeline for when it will be fixed is occasionally communicated. That's not the norm though. It's also not clear what criteria is used to determine if timelines are communicated and why.

5) One of the (newer?) site admins is named JHP, and he has been very helpful. He's patient, even when users are frustrated. He also posts screen capture demos. A good sign.

So maybe I'd grade these efforts a B minus. Improving, but could be better.

However, the real test of a support forum's success is how it reacts to users who report issues with a function's current design. On the Cubase forum, users often report a logical problem with how something works. It's not that anything's "broken" - the feature just has real-world limitations that need to be addressed (comping comes to mind here). Often the user also posts a feature request to improve things - and other users join in with their own suggestions (some of which are promising, some of which are misguided).

Steinberg will only occasionally post in these kind of threads, and if they do, it's usually only to suggest a currently available workaround. When these discussions are active and constructive, admins will often post that they've mentioned the thread to developers. Which is great. (On the flip-side, forum posts that become angry or combative are sometimes moved to "The Lounge", a separate "ghetto" sub-forum only accessible by registered users.)

However, there's rarely any indication of whether these design issues are being addressed (or when). Worse still, there's no real back-and-forth dialog between users and developers on the forum. About design issues, feature requests, or anything. Which is a shame - real-world users are Steinberg's best resource for future development. As a result, users have no idea where the design of the product is going - or if their ideas are being truly considered (and why).

Years ago, I worked in corporate customer support. I've seen all of this before. First of all, it seems to me Steinberg's forum is understaffed. Also, perhaps the forum admins are not empowered to communicate things like design direction or time lines (and/or they themselves don't know). These problems could be minimized if actual programmers made appearances and engaged with the users, at least occasionally.

I've been involved with other support forums, and I know it could be much worse. I've also seen forums where it's much better - the Reaper forum comes to mind (developers routinely interact with users over there). There are probably other examples. I'm a fan of Cubase (it's one of the best DAWs, IMHO), so let's hope things continue to improve over there.

Aj
Old 12th September 2011
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jovas View Post
I use the Fabfilter Twin 2 software synthesizer alot, which supports sidechaining. When I use it as a bass, or other prominent sound, I'd like to sidechain it to other dominant elements in the mix to keep things dynamic. I can then setup an envelope generator/follower and let that control the output/filter cut off of Twin 2 according to the side-chain signal. So when the kick plays, the bass ducks or the chords duck..

This saves me another compressor.
If I understand it correctly, this is possible to do in Cubase.
How To Sidechain Tutorial - YouTube
Old 12th September 2011
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AjD View Post

However, there's rarely any indication of whether these design issues are being addressed (or when). Worse still, there's no real back-and-forth dialog between users and developers on the forum. About design issues, feature requests, or anything. Which is a shame - real-world users are Steinberg's best resource for future development. As a result, users have no idea where the design of the product is going - or if their ideas are being truly considered (and why).
Exactly! To me, Steinberg silence i.e. for example, not commenting about hundreds of complaints about vanishing automation points is what gives Steinberg a certain degree of arrogance.

I can say the very same for Native Instruments too. There is no real back-and-forth dialog between users and developers unless it's something major like the death of Kore. And then information from moderators is delayed, and often too vague.
Old 12th September 2011
  #55
AjD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greggybud View Post
Exactly! To me, Steinberg silence i.e. for example, not commenting about hundreds of complaints about vanishing automation points is what gives Steinberg a certain degree of arrogance
I hear what you're saying Greggybud. It can come off sometimes as arrogance. But at least with Steinberg, I don't think that's what's going on behind-the-scenes. Rather, it's just a really unfortunate result of how their forum team is staffed.

My guess is that the Steinberg forum admins have no authority to respond to any user criticism of product design. They also may not be "in the loop" to know what direction a particular feature is going, development-wise, or have much in-depth knowledge about the developer's position on a given design choice.

As a result, when the occasional hot design issue becomes hyperactive over there (e.g. long discussions with a chorus of user concern - automation points, lanes/comping, etc.), the Steinberg forum staff's only real option is to say that they've reported the thread to the developers. From that alone, I deduce that: a) the developers don't typically see the threads unless they are forwarded to them; and (most troubling) b) the developers don't typically read the forum at all.

So as good as some of the site admins are (JHP, for example), they don't seem to have the organizational "teeth" to offer truly satisfying responses to the more challenging user concerns. It must be frustrating for them too.

Aj
Old 12th September 2011
  #56
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Your conclusions could be very well correct.

But I have to wonder if anyone with any accountability at Steinberg..or NI for that matter has recognized the value of a user forum like Reaper?

I have never used Reaper, but understand that the developers actually listen to the users and can make decisions based on user feedback. This is unusual, but it seems to have worked.

With many other DAWS there seems to be a wall between users and development.
Old 12th September 2011
  #57
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I'd just like to add that I think the Steinberg forum is a user to user forum and not an official support forum.

Moderators working for the company have said before that when they have contributed it is often in their free time.

Just to lend a balanced side.
Old 12th September 2011
  #58
AjD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herb View Post
I'd just like to add that I think the Steinberg forum is a user to user forum and not an official support forum.

Moderators working for the company have said before that when they have contributed it is often in their free time.
Never heard that before Herb, but... wow. If that's true, it's astonishing. I can't imagine how that would help them compete in an already crowded and highly competitive marketplace.

Anyway, here's what the Steinberg site says about their support forum:

Quote:
STEINBERG FORUM: Music creation, post production, or live recording with Steinberg software and hardware solutions: Exchange tips and tricks with other users, talk to our product specialists, plan the next remix project and get the latest news.
Based on this - and my experiences over there with at least something akin to regular involvement by forum admins - I'm guessing it's probably just a rumor or tall tale (or at least I'd hope so). However, the fact that we'd even consider that it's a possibility points to some of the PR problems this kind of inconsistent support can cause.
Old 12th September 2011
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AjD View Post
Never heard that before Herb, but... wow. If that's true, it's astonishing. I can't imagine how that would help them compete in an already crowded and highly competitive marketplace.

Anyway, here's what the Steinberg site says about their support forum:



Based on this - and my experiences over there with at least something akin to regular involvement by forum admins - I'm guessing it's probably just a rumor or tall tale (or at least I'd hope so). However, the fact that we'd even consider that it's a possibility points to some of the PR problems this kind of inconsistent support can cause.
Ok I could be wrong and I might be thinking about older information, I've been knocking about on the Cubase forums for 3 generations.
Old 13th September 2011
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stella645 View Post
Yes it's called bounce selection. Must be something else Ivorydomn has wanted for years!
Exactly, I meant bouncing in place WITH effects or VSTi's . Right now it is a very tedious procedure to export the file, get it in place. Plus you have to remove the previous channel. Imagine you have a vocal track with 8 insert effects and you want to bounce it. You have to go through the whole procedure, but this could be made easy if the freeze function gave you an option of importing the freeze file and automatically replacing the original one with a waveform fully editable and moveable rather than a locked file.

I believe Presonus Studio One has that function, and , although I believe this program has ripped off a lot of Cubase's way of workflow, I must give them credit for that.
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