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Cubase 5.5 DAW Software
Old 30th May 2010
  #181
LQM
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Variaudio is a free inclusion in a DAW.

Comparing it to software costing more than than $400 is frankly an unrealistic comparison.

We appreciate Reverence (or Space Designer in Logic, etc) which are useful convolution reverbs, but we know that Altiverb at $600 is better, but you can't moan when the cost of the plugin is the same price as buying the whole DAW outright.

Melodyne Uno is a sub 200 dollar stand alone application with some of the functionality of Melodyne studio but can't be used as a plugin and has fewer algorithms and on monophonic sources. This is a fairer comparison. An even fairer comparison would be to the pitch correction tools in Logic, Sonar, Presonus S1, Samplitude, etc. Criticize Variaudio all you want, Cubase is the only DAW at present to offer this feature. Variaudio uses the Z-Plane Elastique Solo, a monophonic version of the much acclaimed Elastique Pro as used in Reaper, Ableton Live, Protools Elastic audio etc - with SUBTLE use, it can be a very effective tool ...
Old 30th May 2010
  #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LQM View Post
We appreciate Reverence (or Space Designer in Logic, etc) which are useful convolution reverbs, but we know that Altiverb at $600 is better, but you can't moan when the cost of the plugin is the same price as buying the whole DAW outright.
I use Reverence and Space Designer to flesh out ideas, though I have an M7 for serious stuff.

Just like I use Logic instruments to try out timbres though I prefer Kontakt, hardware synths or 'real' instruments for a final song.

Variaudio doesn't serve any such purpose IMO. It isn't meant for fleshing out ideas.
Old 30th May 2010
  #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by author View Post
I use Reverence and Space Designer to flesh out ideas, though I have an M7 for serious stuff.

Just like I use Logic instruments to try out timbres though I prefer Kontakt, hardware synths or 'real' instruments for a final song.

Variaudio doesn't serve any such purpose IMO. It isn't meant for fleshing out ideas.
Here it is meant exactly for that.

This integrated autotune (ehm, Variaudio) has saved me from more melody-related problems than I could've ever imagined...it's all how you use it.
Old 30th May 2010
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StereoPari View Post
Here it is meant exactly for that.

This integrated autotune (ehm, Variaudio) has saved me from more melody-related problems than I could've ever imagined...it's all how you use it.
Fair enough! thumbsup

Still, the main difference btw the two applications is that you can push Melodyne much farther than Variaudio without unbearably weird artifacts.
Old 30th May 2010
  #185
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Scoox's Avatar
Cubase Fremason 5.5

Today I was looking at Steinberg's website and stumbled upon a whole bunch of successful producers who endorse Cubase as their hands-down favourite DAW. There's even a pic of a producer in his studio with a Mackie Control Universal and Cubendo on the screen (a combo which totally sucks because Steinberg's MCU implementation is the worst of all DAWs and has several bugs and annoyances--I own both). I am not a pro but I am smart enough to notice things that don't work the way they should, so surely these pros experience the same frustrations as I do. Nowadays practically every piece of music is arranged in a DAW, yet I don't remember seeing any pros rant in a forum or moan as much as I do. Furthermore, I wonder whether there is a freemason version of Cubase that plebs like myself are just not worthy of.
Old 30th May 2010
  #186
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Ace'Lo's Avatar
 

When is the release date for 5.5?
Old 30th May 2010
  #187
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Solar's Avatar
 

Talking about VariAudio....

For me fellas,

The best Variaudio and VariSpeed integrated in a DAW that I heard sounded the best out there right now is with Record from Propellerhead and Reaper, that is just me and my taste. I've used melodyne just like many of you here, loved it, more complete but since C5 came with it's own integrated Melodyne style in-built, I fall in love and really helps fix quick things, it's not perfect, I even find Auto Tune tuning the vocals way better the the in-Built Melodyne type in C5 but it's better than nothing. It's good for quick jobs But sometimes I find myself using both the built in VariAudio and A-Tune to make it sounds the way I really feel.

But as I'm very soon going to switch to Studio One, I'm looking forward to see a more advanced, better sounding VariAudio in S1 and with more option, to be able to get the "Cher" effect as well as really tune notes a la Melodyne style and more.

Cheers!!!
Old 30th May 2010
  #188
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clubber's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kdp View Post
I think Variaudio is great. I have Melo but never use it
++1
Old 30th May 2010
  #189
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Mark Kaufman's Avatar
 

I'm grateful for VariAudio. Seems to me we can make ALL those programs sound like crap without a whole lot of effort. Unless it's a very subtle shift that's necessary, then no matter how you cut it, you're bending the note too far, and you WILL get a synthesized sound. You can adjust it and fluff it and fool most of the people most of the time...but you will still know...it's deformed, and you can hear it. Melodyne, Autotune, whatever...there's only so far you can go, and to me, the difference between who's better or worse is still too close for comfort.

If you really have to bend things up to a whole tone or more, good luck...no matter what you use.
Old 31st May 2010
  #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace'Lo View Post
When is the release date for 5.5?

They said middle June...
Old 31st May 2010
  #191
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edwonbass's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoox View Post
Today I was looking at Steinberg's website and stumbled upon a whole bunch of successful producers who endorse Cubase as their hands-down favourite DAW. There's even a pic of a producer in his studio with a Mackie Control Universal and Cubendo on the screen (a combo which totally sucks because Steinberg's MCU implementation is the worst of all DAWs and has several bugs and annoyances--I own both). I am not a pro but I am smart enough to notice things that don't work the way they should, so surely these pros experience the same frustrations as I do. Nowadays practically every piece of music is arranged in a DAW, yet I don't remember seeing any pros rant in a forum or moan as much as I do. Furthermore, I wonder whether there is a freemason version of Cubase that plebs like myself are just not worthy of.

What problems are you having with the MCU and Cubase? I am using the MCU with extender running C5 and everything works like I would expect.
Maybe they gave me the freemason version by accident.heh
Old 1st June 2010
  #192
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Scoox's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by edwonbass View Post
What problems are you having with the MCU and Cubase? I am using the MCU with extender running C5 and everything works like I would expect.
Maybe they gave me the freemason version by accident.heh
  • When the V-pots are centered, the LED under the V-Pot should come on, but it only comes one when you turn the pot one way.
  • Faders need to be firmly touched with the fingertips or otherwise they will jump back to their original position (every other DAW allows you to push them with anything and they will still work, which means that they will stay where you put them). This issue has been reported int the Cubase forum but Steinberg never even acknowledged the bug (since SX3 and we are now on C5)
  • Pressing V-Pots does not center pan, which every other DAW does.
  • When the faders in the software are set to 0dB, the faders on the MCU are off the 0dB mark by a few milimeters
  • When level meters are displayed on the LCD, they come up on top off the characters so they can't be read (other DAWs like REAPER, Tracktion, FL Studio, Live and Reason use horizontal level meters on the LCD which are longer (i.e .more resolution) and don't cover text)
  • The MCU stops responding some times and lags behind automation by a few seconds
Basically, every other DAW I have tried offers a much better implementation. Donwload for example REAPER and check out how it works there, you'll be blown away (of course Cubase can do many more things than REAPER, it's just that the few that REAPER does, it does them well).

These problems are not limited to the MCU: Devices that emulate the MCU, such as Native Instruments Kore 2 (which I use in MCU emulation mode) exhibit similar problems that are non-existent in every other DAW. I've tried them all. I actually sold my MCU on eBay because it was just too frustrating. Perhaps these problems don't hinder your workflow and therefore you have not noticed them.
Old 1st June 2010
  #193
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edwonbass's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoox View Post
  • When the V-pots are centered, the LED under the V-Pot should come on, but it only comes one when you turn the pot one way.
  • Faders need to be firmly touched with the fingertips or otherwise they will jump back to their original position (every other DAW allows you to push them with anything and they will still work, which means that they will stay where you put them). This issue has been reported int the Cubase forum but Steinberg never even acknowledged the bug (since SX3 and we are now on C5)
  • Pressing V-Pots does not center pan, which every other DAW does.
  • When the faders in the software are set to 0dB, the faders on the MCU are off the 0dB mark by a few milimeters
  • When level meters are displayed on the LCD, they come up on top off the characters so they can't be read (other DAWs like REAPER, Tracktion, FL Studio, Live and Reason use horizontal level meters on the LCD which are longer (i.e .more resolution) and don't cover text)
  • The MCU stops responding some times and lags behind automation by a few seconds
Basically, every other DAW I have tried offers a much better implementation. Donwload for example REAPER and check out how it works there, you'll be blown away (of course Cubase can do many more things than REAPER, it's just that the few that REAPER does, it does them well).

These problems are not limited to the MCU: Devices that emulate the MCU, such as Native Instruments Kore 2 (which I use in MCU emulation mode) exhibit similar problems that are non-existent in every other DAW. I've tried them all. I actually sold my MCU on eBay because it was just too frustrating. Perhaps these problems don't hinder your workflow and therefore you have not noticed them.
I will have to check these things out. I know about the panning not centering by pressing the v-pots. In my set up it toggles the monitoring on the track.
I'm pretty sure you are right about the faders being off. I never really gave it much thought.
I am curious about the response of the touch faders with a different DAW. Maybe I will throw Reaper on and test it out.
Old 1st June 2010
  #194
5.5 ships in about 2-3 weeks from now.
Old 1st June 2010
  #195
LQM
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For many people, Studio One is a still a speculation.

I read constantly about people who like it's workflow and how they acknowledge that there is more to come in upcoming versions ... well, it's a speculation as to what they're going to add (and if it will be well implemented or not). A lot of people are buying S1 which at the moment, is like a nice looking shell of a car, but one which doesn't have motorized windows, air conditioning, coffee holders, GPS, ABS, and traction control etc. They are hoping these will be coming and be nicer than the competition but we don't know. This is why I keep my eye on it (and Reaper, which is getting CLOSE) to see how it develops. For all we know, Presonus could drop S1 just like that in a year or two if it hasn't set the sales sheets alive and people will be left with an incomplete application.

If you're the gambling type, then fair enough, but it wouldn't surprise me in 2 or 3 years time if people are moaning that Studio One didn't live up to the hype (on the other hand, it could surpass it and be brilliant). It's easy to take pot shots at Cubase for being old and bloated, when you're comparing brand new DAWS (or relatively immature, such as Reaper), which haven't been around for 20 years, (and also which choose not to bundle sound libraries/content, which is optional BTW on Cubase and Logic, you don't HAVE to install it).

I'm glad of this software because it all helps to push the established competition, but no software is complete or the right choice for everyone. Steinberg aren't the most customer friendly company around (although Steinberg Canada have been awesome to me, so I will point this out), like Apple they tend to ignore and deny. So if great customer service is essential then by all means look elsewhere. In the meantime, I'm getting lots of work done with Cubase, not fumbling with manuals and tech support trying to learn a new system and forking out a bunch of money which in a global recession is tight to change, and that is great by me !

As for Variaudio, I find it a very useful tool and much more editable and customizable than autotune type things in Reaper etc. Cubase also has Pitch Correct for generalized auto tuning. With careful use of segments and also things like ramping the autotuning, you can achieve a lot within a fairly subtle range without artifacts, it takes quite a bit of skill - my first 10-12 efforts with variaudio I found it difficult to get good results but with practice and using the FULL scope of the facility (instead of just selecting CTRL-A and shifting the quantization and pitch with the sliders) but now I get much better results. If you want the Cher/TPain effect it can do that, but the Pitch Correction plugin is better suited to it, pitch notes with a MIDI keyboard etc.
Old 1st June 2010
  #196
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popmann's Avatar
While I didn't buy the v5 upgrade after my 30 demo--Variaudio would be the reason to do so, IMO. I just don't track audio in the PC...

It easily bested the last version of Autotune on polishing up my voice. I've actually never even used AT (in final mix), because it just sounded so piss poor, IMO. I have heard Melodyne is better--but, I just don't have enough need to investigate. Still--Variaudio was a wonderfully transparent GUI that I didn't even need to read a manual to "get". Kudos to them.

Revernce...ehh...it sounded fine. There are better reverb plugs...but, I've not used any better "built in" reverbs, which is unfortunately, the only fair comparison, I guess. In my world, I want the best I can get...which means that I will have to pony up for the LexiPCM bundle if I ever move to software mixing. Unless someone bests it...or comes close for cheaper. Reverence gives Cubase what it didn't have before--a USEABLE reverb out of the box.

Something that doesn't get mentioned--their StudioEQ and VintageCompressor (introduced in v4) stand up VERY well next to the best of the best, IMO. Not AS good...but, damn close enough. I still don't know why they dropped Magneto, though. Sure, it didn't sound like tape...but what a fine limiter algorithm.
Old 1st June 2010
  #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popmann View Post
I still don't know why they dropped Magneto, though. Sure, it didn't sound like tape...but what a fine limiter algorithm.
Licensing. -wasn't their code.
Old 1st June 2010
  #198
Baz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popmann View Post
I just don't track audio in the PC...
Heh, after ALL these years from the first time I read about your dislike of tracking to PC/Mac what have you, you're still towin' this line, eh Pop? heh The substantial advances in h/w let alone OS' in the last what? 5-6 yrs still don't cut it for ya, eh? Stand Fast Pop! heh

I've never even inserted an instance of Variaudio, but I'll take your word for it. I recall the same opinion of AT as yours last I used it.

As for Reverence,I messed around with it very briefly, but I don't use s/w reverbs much as my primary reverb,so I'm not really chosey and I've tried, or worked with, most of the usual suspects. I do recall it being a HOG, that's for sure.All of the "important stuff" is passed thru the M7 over here, but for plugins, I really love Breverb for sound, simplicity and it's extremely efficient use of clock cycles. It was nice to find an alternative to the standard convolution fare. Excellent reverb and I have to thank John Mark Painter for turning me onto it way back when on Dot's up/down/up/down/up/down studioforums site. From what I recall, he had a hand in it's development or conception.

Quote:
Originally Posted by popmann View Post

I still don't know why they dropped Magneto, though. Sure, it didn't sound like tape...but what a fine limiter algorithm.
Totally agree, I loved it on bass and recall even using it on a vocal that was too clean for this instance, so I added a little hair to it with MagNeato.
Old 2nd June 2010
  #199
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popmann's Avatar
Quote:
Heh, after ALL these years from the first time I read about your dislike of tracking to PC/Mac what have you, you're still towin' this line, eh Pop?
I am, bless me.

I actually don't mind tracking to Cubase now, really. I'm not convinced that any of this advancement of technology is helping music any. But, that's a philosophical rabbit hole that I've found it best not to go down here.
Old 2nd June 2010
  #200
LQM
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Magneto is still available as a download from Steinberg's FTP site under legacy plugins and works under C5. (PC only)
ftp://ftp.steinberg.net/Download/Leg...0SX%20Plugins/

*correction - if you have a Power PC mac, like a G5, you can still use these legacy plugins, but UB versions for Intel Mac are not available, in the case of Magneto as previous poster was correct, the licensing agreement with Houpert Digital who coded the plugin (and are more known for the AudioCube plugins) expired, so they never coded UB versions and the plugin wasn't included natively in C4 or C5 but does work in PC or PPC macs.

Cubase 5.5 is supposed to help with the efficiency of Reverence, which is a bit heavier than it should be on CPU load.
Old 3rd June 2010
  #201
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popmann's Avatar
Yes...it's actually on the C4 disc under legacy plugs, too. No UB...that's when I noticed--when I installed it all on my intel iMac. It's installed on my Windows install.

So, is the company going market it? I'm just confused...so, they can distribute it...but, just can't include it in the default install? If the company who owns the code isn't going to offer it for sale...what's the point in restricting what Steiny can do?
Old 8th June 2010
  #202
Gear Maniac
 

updated .. C5.5 will be release on 21 June.
Old 8th June 2010
  #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raylai View Post
updated .. C5.5 will be release on 21 June.
Old 8th June 2010
  #204
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Scoox's Avatar
After all I've said and done, I have hope!
Old 9th June 2010
  #205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubai View Post
Cubase/Nuendo playback engine sounds different than the Bounce/Mixdown engine.
Bounce engine better sound, but you mix

Only if you have some setting wrong somewhere.........
Old 9th June 2010
  #206
Here for the gear
 

VariAudio, Cubase 5.5

I guess it depends on the type of music you are producing, but I have absolutely no complaints about VariAudio for the pitch correction I do. I'm old school, though ... I cannot STAND the artifacts of pitch correction in music today. I want to hear the human voice! There is absolutely no more expressive instrument. If you're looking for a drastically different note than what was performed and tracked, then retrack it. If I am hearing pitch correction artifacts, then I didn't get a good performance from the vocalist.

I have used Melodyne in the past, because it was the only plug that sounded good AND had excellent graphical editing. The waves pitcher had a great interface but sounded HORRIBLE. Autotune sounded okay, but the graphical editing sucked it. Melodyne was great but horribly unstable in my rig. VariAudio is PRECISELY what I was hoping for. It takes a little practice to get note transitions to sound right, but the tools are all there. I dare anyone to find a spot in a vocal that I have corrected.

And yes, I can seriously compare VariAudio with Melodyne, no problem. To me it is Melodyne, integrated.

Tentatively excited about 5.5. I hope it is worth the wait. And yes, something like Beat Detective in C6 is basically required at this point. Though I still prefer to capture solid drum takes than fix poor ones. I have absolutely no qualms about drum replacement to the point of keeping only the rooms and overheads (and hat and ride), so I am not a purist in that sense ... But I want to record humans making music, not forcing emotionless machines to do it for them. If my drums don't sound real, they are wrong. So Steinberg's Beat Detective solution had better be awesome, dammit!! It is really the ONLY thing missing from Cubase, imo.
Old 10th June 2010
  #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabealicious View Post
So Steinberg's Beat Detective solution had better be awesome, dammit!! It is really the ONLY thing missing from Cubase, imo.
To me, i would love they can improve a bit in windows consolidation as well, there are too many "mouse clicks" too keep the windows stay up.... you know what i mean
Old 10th June 2010
  #208
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Empire Prod's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by popmann View Post
While I didn't buy the v5 upgrade after my 30 demo--Variaudio would be the reason to do so, IMO. I just don't track audio in the PC...

It easily bested the last version of Autotune on polishing up my voice. I've actually never even used AT (in final mix), because it just sounded so piss poor, IMO.
Variaudio has been a big disappointment to me. Antares EVO works and sounds much much better here. I am glad that it worked on your voice, but I haven't had that experience yet with my clients.
Old 10th June 2010
  #209
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Empire Prod View Post
Variaudio has been a big disappointment to me. Antares EVO works and sounds much much better here. I am glad that it worked on your voice, but I haven't had that experience yet with my clients.
Variaudio works good for me too, and I've bought Melodyne and Autotune EVO...

Autotune EVO has a better sound, of course and has more octaves.
But isn't practical as Variaudio...
Old 10th June 2010
  #210
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Ditto for the Beat Detective/Elastic audio multitrack editing in C6 + improved window handling.

k

p.s.: I know the first thing is doable already in Cubase, but it's single -track and far from easy...
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