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Cubase 10.5 Pro vs. Reaper
Old 12th September 2020
  #91
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greggybud's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muser View Post
so citing zimmer is irrelevant unless the given user gets their nose to this particular grindstone and does the dirty work themselves. like this guy has.
For myself, it doesn't matter much who uses what, even if they are famous.

I think Jonos great contributions are mostly for composers of large track film, & game, etc. His many dozens of free midi Logical Editor presets downloaded at the Metagrid website is very well thought out. Actually I have never seen a better organized collection of midi Logical Editor presets, that go far beyond what is included in the Cubase factory presets.

Enhanced Cubase workflow...faster and more easy...

Once you have mastered all the Cubase Key commands you think you need, built all your custom macros, and integrated PLE and LE into both...then it's time to buy a used iPad and for $14, purchase Metagrid. That will sort of take you to a new power level in Cubase because its totally customizable and combines KC's, PLE's, LE,s Macros, plus is great for large track counts. Speed and enhanced workflow...

This stuff here I think is so much more useful than buying any DAW controller unless your objective is basic mix console functions.
Old 12th September 2020
  #92
I have Reaper, it doesn't get used. However, I just upgraded to Cubase 10.5 and I think it enhanced productivity for me.
Old 12th September 2020
  #93
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bambony's Avatar
I've used Logic and Reaper loads and ProTools and Cubase quite a bit over the years.
- Logic kills for keyboard composition and sound content/virtual instruments and is excellent value
- Cubase is great for step input MIDI and creating "beats" and is quite expensive
- ProTools kills for audiook editing and post and is crazy expensive
- Reaper kills for music editing, mixing and plugin count and costs virtually nothing
They all pretty much do the same thing but have different strengths and weaknesses. You must find the DAW and tools that fit your workflow, aesthetic and general approach.

I find it a little childish to slate Reaper for having a simple GUI. That is really not scratching the surface of the DAW but I understand some people need to be visually gratified and that's completely understandable. However some Reaper themes look incredible but add nothing to its functionality. Reaper comes into its own when you customise it to meet your workflow needs. I can understand that many users want no part in this.

No DAW is the best fit for everybody.

Tony
Old 14th September 2020
  #94
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dapz's Avatar
I've been a Cubase user for over 18 years. Though In the last 2 years I've been using Reaper and been very happy with it.

The moment I made the switch was when I downloaded the Cubase Keymap for Reaper.

All short cuts are the same as Cubase but with the power of Reaper.

As you know, Reaper is so customisable that the possibilities are endless
Old 4 weeks ago
  #95
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juiseman's Avatar
Neither; Studio One....

Quickest to get up and producing for me anyhow.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #96
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eagle007's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by juiseman View Post
Neither; Studio One....

Quickest to get up and producing for me anyhow.
For me too. But between Cubase and Reaper, definitely Cubase for me.

Took a new look at the latest Reaper release, but to me it's a developers point of view application. Way too complex for the average user, and build for customization. I don't like its workflow. Not bashing, as it can do the job just fine. Just preference.

I was a Cubase/PT user before I switched to Studio One, so maybe I am biased :D
Old 4 weeks ago
  #97
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juiseman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle007 View Post
For me too. But between Cubase and Reaper, definitely Cubase for me.

Took a new look at the latest Reaper release, but to me it's a developers point of view application. Way too complex for the average user, and build for customization. I don't like its workflow. Not bashing, as it can do the job just fine. Just preference.

I was a Cubase/PT user before I switched to Studio One, so maybe I am biased :D
Yea, same here. mostly Cubase/Logic & a tad PT...
Old 1 week ago
  #98
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bambony View Post
I've used Logic and Reaper loads and ProTools and Cubase quite a bit over the years.
- Logic kills for keyboard composition and sound content/virtual instruments and is excellent value
- Cubase is great for step input MIDI and creating "beats" and is quite expensive
- ProTools kills for audiook editing and post and is crazy expensive
- Reaper kills for music editing, mixing and plugin count and costs virtually nothing
They all pretty much do the same thing but have different strengths and weaknesses. You must find the DAW and tools that fit your workflow, aesthetic and general approach.

I find it a little childish to slate Reaper for having a simple GUI. That is really not scratching the surface of the DAW but I understand some people need to be visually gratified and that's completely understandable. However some Reaper themes look incredible but add nothing to its functionality. Reaper comes into its own when you customise it to meet your workflow needs. I can understand that many users want no part in this.

No DAW is the best fit for everybody.

Tony
Logic’s stock sounds/virtual instruments are about as game-changing as the Kontakt Factory Library, or HALion Factory content. It’s great to people who are just starting out and have low budgets with little extra money to shell out for better 3rd party stuff, but it’s not really a reason I’d choose Logic over another DAW. This goes for other DAWs that include lots of OOTB content, as well.

Cubase is, perhaps, the best all-around/generalist DAW on the market, right now. Great for recording and editing Audio, arranging, MIDI Composition, etc. There really isn’t another DAW on the market as well rounded. I can’t really say it is undeserving of its price tag.

Pro Tools’ perpetual price is on par with Cubase Pro. Most people who are using Pro Tools in a home studio are unlikely to need Pro Tools | Ultimate, which is more comparable to DAWs like Sequoia, Pyramix and others (which actually cost MORE than Pro Tools | Ultimate - so Avid isn’t really robbing the bank, here).

REAPER is decent for mixing and editing, but the issue is the UI/UX (and workflow, as an extension) is pretty rugged. If you pour in the hours needed to “make it your own,” you can get a decent setup. But I’d still hate looking at it (themes can’t fix the fundamental issues in the REAPER UX, for me), and the Workflow is still going to be “typical REAPER.”

REAPER just comes across looking and feeling like a typical F/OSS application. Technically, it’s brilliant, but the usability is definitely a 5th priority in the minds of the developers.

Additionally, if Music Production is your main profession, then REAPER costs more than Logic Pro X, Cakewalk by BandLab, and not considerably less than the Crossgrade you get get to other DAWs. Competing on price only works well for it in the pirate/hobbyist market.

To industry professionals, the price of the DAW really is a drop in the bucket. Most costs are in other areas (hardware/equipment, plugins, etc.).
Old 1 week ago
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juiseman View Post
Neither; Studio One....

Quickest to get up and producing for me anyhow.
Studio One didn’t have a Score View until v5, and Notion 6 is probably one of the buggiest pieces of music production/composition software that I have EVER used. It’s just... tragically buggy.

I’m can’t gamble my money on PreSonus software, after that experience.

That’s a big reason why I went with Cubase Pro. I could not go with Studio One and have to depend on Notion, when I knew damn well what an unusable mess it is.
Old 1 week ago
  #100
Gear Head
 
Michael Grafl's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trensharo View Post

REAPER is decent for mixing and editing, but the issue is the UI/UX (and workflow, as an extension) is pretty rugged. If you pour in the hours needed to “make it your own,” you can get a decent setup. But I’d still hate looking at it (themes can’t fix the fundamental issues in the REAPER UX, for me), and the Workflow is still going to be “typical REAPER.”

REAPER just comes across looking and feeling like a typical F/OSS application. Technically, it’s brilliant, but the usability is definitely a 5th priority in the minds of the developers.
Fair enough. But your comment makes me wonder how much FOSS you actually use, because while it's a bit rough around the edges, it's far above the level of any serious FOSS application I've ever used (otherwise I wouldn't use it).

I personally switched from Cubase to Sonar to Reaper somewhere around 2008-2010, and found REAPER to be the most intuitive and usable of the bunch, since a track is simply a channel that doesn't discern between sample rate, mono or stereo, or whether it's MIDI or audio. For a long time I just used the default configuration and was happy with it.

The UI isn't fancy. And no amount of theming will counteract some of the fundamental design choices. Yes, it's like putting lipstick on a pig. But the UI feels very functional to me. It feels robust and snappy.

Talking and reasoning about UX is more complex. The thing that bugs me the most about REAPER is the layout and structure of the default menus, mostly because of their flat hierarchy, which results in often being overwhelmed by the options offered after right clicking in some particular context. I still feel the cognitive load when working with the default menus trying to find a specific action, so much so that I tend to sometimes just look for it in the action list.

So yeah, the defaults would probably benefit from a well thought out overhaul. The thing is, every time I try some other DAW to keep an open mind, I find a few things that I'd like to have in REAPER, but a ton of things that seem a lot more cumbersome. And then I usually figure out how to configure REAPER to do the thing the other DAW uses.

I've always seen REAPER as a toolbox for building your own DAW. If you have a very specific workflow, REAPER is probably your best bet to automate as many tasks as possible to increase your productivity. So I disagree with your assessment of REAPER being more expensive that other DAWs. I think for certain tasks REAPER can save you so much time that it would be financially irresponsible to use any other tool.

For other tasks, REAPER gets the job done, but not in the most inspiring ways, and then yes, as a professional I don't care about a one time investment of 500 Euros if it makes my life easier.

I also have more trust in the REAPER developers to fix issues faster than any other company. In that sense they're simply more professional.

Anyway, I'm not writing this to promote REAPER. I just felt a bit offended by your comparison with FOSS software, because I find it to be absolute hyperbole.

If I did more MIDI stuff, I'd get Cubase, no question. And the take system can't be worse than in REAPER.
Old 1 week ago
  #101
Gear Head
I primarily use Reaper now, after teasing the switch for the last year. I've been in audio land for 11 years at this point where I used Pro Tools, Cubase and for the most part Cakewalk.

I wish I made the switch ages ago. Yes, the Reaper midi editor and take systems are somewhat behind other DAWs, but no other DAWs can touch it on straight up performance, speed and reliability. I mix a lot of experimental/ambient/prog stuff, so a lot of my mixing sessions are huge. Rendering artifacts and crashes are what made me move from Cakewalk (even though it's gotten muuuuuch better since Bandlab took over).

I've not had one error or crash with Reaper since switching, and the render/freeze speed is crazy and much faster than every other platform I've used. Rendering stems is a total breeze with wildcards and render queues, it's actually changed my life as bouncing was the bane of my existence for a while. Once thing I really appreciate about Reaper is the ability to access functions when recording (arming other tracks, monitoring, literally anything) Other DAWs don't let you do this, if I remember right Pro Tools locks up every other function when recording. I could go on about this forever, but I'd recommend sticking with Reaper if you want reliability, you will encounter bugs in other DAWs that don't happen in Reaper, and there will be a lot. I thought Cakewalk and Cubase were extremely stable until I used Reaper.

Sure, there are some things I don't like in Reaper, but straight-up power and efficiency tops everything. Also, being able to route anything anywhere is amazing, subprojects are amazing, spectral editing is basically RX for free, portable install is great, and most of all, the community is great and bugs get fixed quickly.

I totally get what people mean about the rabbit hole of customization, but the key here is to totally avoid custom actions and SWS until you feel like you need something. And the good part is, what you want will most likely exist.
Old 5 days ago
  #102
I do mainly MIDI orchestration these days and I just can't wrap my head around doing it in Reaper. Over the years I've tried about three times to learn Reaper in order to move over, but it just never sticks.
That said, I've been in Cubase since before audio/VST, and it made sense to my brain at the time. I'm sure it's different for everyone, but I also edit video and hands down Vegas just made sense to me and in ways I still struggle with Premiere. I guess we all have different brain maps and Cubase is where mine is stuck!
I could do with much better Cubase stability on the MacOS though. I swore to never return to windows and I can't deal with moving between MacOS and Windows with drives and partitions and blah blah blah because I will never be able to escape the Mac ecosystem (nor do I care to). Two different machines and every version from Cubase 8 to 10.5 so far Cubase shuts down the first try on launch and then works on the second attempt. Occasionally, a third party plugin crashes it too just by opening it (usually IK Multimedia plugins), but thank the lord Play always works and never crashes it.
Between Premiere and Cubase I am steady Command+S pusher, but I sometimes lose my work when I'm in the flow and it's super frustrating that auto-save only seems to cover me about 50% of the time. I've just kind of accepted that high functioning software that isn't tied to high end hardware will often not be stable. It feels like I haven't had a 100% stable DAW since... never!
Old 5 days ago
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremy.c. View Post
I do mainly MIDI orchestration these days and I just can't wrap my head around doing it in Reaper. Over the years I've tried about three times to learn Reaper in order to move over, but it just never sticks.
That said, I've been in Cubase since before audio/VST, and it made sense to my brain at the time. I'm sure it's different for everyone, but I also edit video and hands down Vegas just made sense to me and in ways I still struggle with Premiere. I guess we all have different brain maps and Cubase is where mine is stuck!
I could do with much better Cubase stability on the MacOS though. I swore to never return to windows and I can't deal with moving between MacOS and Windows with drives and partitions and blah blah blah because I will never be able to escape the Mac ecosystem (nor do I care to). Two different machines and every version from Cubase 8 to 10.5 so far Cubase shuts down the first try on launch and then works on the second attempt. Occasionally, a third party plugin crashes it too just by opening it (usually IK Multimedia plugins), but thank the lord Play always works and never crashes it.
Between Premiere and Cubase I am steady Command+S pusher, but I sometimes lose my work when I'm in the flow and it's super frustrating that auto-save only seems to cover me about 50% of the time. I've just kind of accepted that high functioning software that isn't tied to high end hardware will often not be stable. It feels like I haven't had a 100% stable DAW since... never!
Just so you know Cubase on Windows is totaly crash free...
Just throwing it out there
Old 5 days ago
  #104
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioloud View Post
Just so you know Cubase on Windows is totaly crash free...
Just throwing it out there
ha 100% not my experience!
I used to build my own systems, generally following tried and true audio builds, plus a few Dells or whatever laptops and it would crash as much as anything else does on Windows. It may have just been windows crashing, but still... same problems. Outside of Cubase, my MacOS rarely crashes.
Old 5 days ago
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremy.c. View Post
ha 100% not my experience!
I used to build my own systems, generally following tried and true audio builds, plus a few Dells or whatever laptops and it would crash as much as anything else does on Windows. It may have just been windows crashing, but still... same problems. Outside of Cubase, my MacOS rarely crashes.
I always bought PCs made by companies specialized in audio.
Can't be bothered with finding the correct components etc...
The last Cubase versions 9, and now 10, are super stable I might have crashed 3 times in the last 8 years or so...
So I think you might have been unlucky.

Anyhow, all the best with your setup!
Old 2 days ago
  #106
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremy.c. View Post
ha 100% not my experience!
I used to build my own systems, generally following tried and true audio builds, plus a few Dells or whatever laptops and it would crash as much as anything else does on Windows. It may have just been windows crashing, but still... same problems. Outside of Cubase, my MacOS rarely crashes.
I use a three-year-old Dell XPS laptop and experience zero crashes, ever. I literally cannot remember the last time Windows shut down on me. I'm sure it's happened in the past, but not recently (tempting fate here!).

Cubase Pro is very fast and stable on my system with small to medium-sized projects and good-quality third-party plugins (although I keep auto save on to be sure), but that's not to say I'd recommend Windows unreservedly to a beginner - you do need to painstakingly sort out various driver/service issues that can cause annoying latency spikes. LatencyMon is your friend here. And, as ever, it helps to have a decent processor, a modern audio interface and lots and lots of RAM.
Old 2 days ago
  #107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artobest View Post
...but that's not to say I'd recommend Windows unreservedly to a beginner - you do need to painstakingly sort out various driver/service issues that can cause annoying latency spikes.
well that's the crux of the issue isn't it? Having built about four of my six Windows systems over a few decades I am certainly not a beginner, but I also got to a point where I just can't be arsed to deal with these things. I know we're in a better place now, but 15-20 years ago you could end up swapping out tons of pieces of hardware to get a reasonably stable system.
Honestly, I'd leave Cubase before I'd leave MacOS at this point in my life (i.e. it's utterly impossible and I don't want to own a separate machine for audio from video production).

Buuuuuut...

It's a Steinberg issue and they need to fix it, but they won't, so it's the handshake I've made on it. Spend time tweaking Windows or spend that time relaunching after the occasional crash. Horses for courses.
Old 2 days ago
  #108
DSK
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DSK's Avatar
It's hard to choose any one DAW.

I do hybrid production, edits mashups in Ableton Live

Then I edit to picture in Cubase, has so many nice features for editing and such an amazing sound engine.

Reaper I use for multichannel complex routings, exports etc (that render matrix is off the charts) as well as mixing sometimes. It's just an amazing tool.


If I really had to choose one, I think Cubase takes the crown for sound and workflow, it just feels so polished and precise. Reaper feels a bit rough, but only by a margin.

For now and my current job, mainly editing to picture and collaborating with the video editor, Cubase fits the bill amazingly. Has been the 2020 revelation workflow wise.

I'd wish I had more time to do mixes in Harrison 32c. That software has such a dynamic and meaty sound...


IMO if your job description shifts a lot then I'd suggest you learn more than 1 DAW and learn it well.

If not, stick to the DAW that helps you do you the best.

I've been quite pleasantly surprised by ProTools, really good sound, decent workflow, after having a 1-year sub that I got for peanuts just for testing, but ultimately it wasn't worth the admission price. Avid's money grabbing schemes, just ain't for me
Old 2 days ago
  #109
Lives for gear
As someone who has used Microsoft OSs since DOS 5 and owned and used a MacBook Pro exclusively for 5 years, I can confidently say that Cubase works much MUCH better on Windows. I'm also not sure what sort of tweaks people feel they need to do on Windows 10, it's a solid OS out of the box.

I like pretty much all OSs, macOS is great, Windows is great, Ubuntu (and other flavours of Linux) are great too! ... but if you want stability for music production, especially Cubase, you go with Windows, because unlike Apple, Microsoft doesn't break backwards compatibility on every single OS update.

Cubase SX3 still runs perfectly on the latest Windows 10 for example. I'm sure Cubase VST5 would work fine on Windows 10 too.

As far as drivers ... ummm ... what drivers? Except for my Thunderbolt and Clarett driver, everything else worked completely out of the box. Microsoft even fetched NVIDIA drivers automatically upon installation. I had to install drivers for my Clarett on macOS too, so I don't understand that argument.

Just sayin...

On another note, Studio One is really making Cubase look bad right now, especially with how much they added to 5.1 for free. I'm really hoping Cubase 11 brings a lot to the table for us Cubase lovers!!!
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