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Best DAW choice Cubase?
Old 21st February 2007
  #1
Gear interested
 

Thread Starter
Arrow Best DAW choice Cubase?

Hi everybody, this is the first time that we're writing to GearSlutz. Hope that we're on the right topic..We need a trusty help and I think we can find it here..(If we can't I don't know where else anybody can )

On the Digital Music Doctor's website which is here: http://digitalmusicdoctor.com/shooto...ut_summary.htm they say that Cubase 4 is better than Digidesign Pro Tools..WTF? They say that Digidesign Pro Tools is the most common DAW, but not the best..Actually they acclaim that not only Cubase, but Sonar is also better than Digidesign Pro Tools..

And this shootout came out while we're planning to switch our DAW system from Cubase to Pro Tools because of the industry standards, and we're a bit confused about the situation..

Well, Cubase has so many problems as far as I've been using it..So many ways to enter the same parameters in the software, not user friendly many windows, and soft tones coming out of Cubase which we don't need, MIDI editing difficulties, so many audio crap is left on the project file that is unused and to delete them all the time, making our project files a mess and everything is becoming pain in the ass on Cubase while working on a project..and so on..That was the main reasons why we want to change our DAW system..

Also, the want to take the project directly to mixing and mastering to a pro studio (which will probably have Pro Tools) lead us to use Pro Tools for the composing and arrangement parts of the project..

But we're stuck! a million dollar question..Which DAW is the best?

Of course it depends on what you want to do on your projects, but we're producing electronic pop music, we only record vocals, and the rest of the project is, VST Instruments and effects, and we're working on PC based computers also..

And what do you think about the Digital Music Doctor's test results?

And what do you suggest us to use as a DAW for electronic based music?

Thanx..
Old 22nd February 2007
  #2
engineer / producer / mixer
 
Kevin Killen's Avatar
 

Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by FinoAttack View Post
Hi everybody, this is the first time that we're writing to GearSlutz. Hope that we're on the right topic..We need a trusty help and I think we can find it here..(If we can't I don't know where else anybody can )

On the Digital Music Doctor's website which is here: http://digitalmusicdoctor.com/shooto...ut_summary.htm they say that Cubase 4 is better than Digidesign Pro Tools..WTF? They say that Digidesign Pro Tools is the most common DAW, but not the best..Actually they acclaim that not only Cubase, but Sonar is also better than Digidesign Pro Tools..

And this shootout came out while we're planning to switch our DAW system from Cubase to Pro Tools because of the industry standards, and we're a bit confused about the situation..

Well, Cubase has so many problems as far as I've been using it..So many ways to enter the same parameters in the software, not user friendly many windows, and soft tones coming out of Cubase which we don't need, MIDI editing difficulties, so many audio crap is left on the project file that is unused and to delete them all the time, making our project files a mess and everything is becoming pain in the ass on Cubase while working on a project..and so on..That was the main reasons why we want to change our DAW system..

Also, the want to take the project directly to mixing and mastering to a pro studio (which will probably have Pro Tools) lead us to use Pro Tools for the composing and arrangement parts of the project..

But we're stuck! a million dollar question..Which DAW is the best?

Of course it depends on what you want to do on your projects, but we're producing electronic pop music, we only record vocals, and the rest of the project is, VST Instruments and effects, and we're working on PC based computers also..

And what do you think about the Digital Music Doctor's test results?

And what do you suggest us to use as a DAW for electronic based music?

Thanx..

Well from my perspective I use PT, Logic and Sadie. Its all about what level of efficiency, sonic integrity and easy of use you need from your DAW. The essetially all offer a path to record digital audio. Some do it better and more intuitively and some excell at other aspects.

I will say this , if you find that the technology is controlling you then it is worthwhile considering alternatives. With all of the stand alone converters and clocking devices, the inherent sonic integrity is less of the issue that the functionality. So find a system that makes your life easier and odes not create additional work. That maybe Cubase or some other program, but there are choices. I will copy this and post it to another thread to see if other users have any firsthand experience.
Old 22nd February 2007
  #3
Gear Head
 

Well- my 2 cents.

I've been a Digi user since the days of Sound Designer so I'm just use to the interface and the way things are laid out etc... I'm quick on it so it's what I use.
Protools is a really good DAW to edit on and track to. That being said, I wouldn't be too happy if it was the only software that I could rely on to make music.

Luckily midi has gotten way better in PT and with rewire you can use a lot of other great program that are more geared or focused towards the music making process from within PT. Now a days it's pretty seamless.

I never liked cubase for many of the reasons you mentioned above. You might want to also take a look at Logic. I've never used it but many friends really think it's more aimed at folks who make music and not just record it.

I'll stick with PT. I use Reason, Ableton Live and a bunch of other tools all from within PT.
Old 23rd February 2007
  #4
Lives for gear
 
jupiter8's Avatar
 

Are we talking PTLE or PTHD ? LE has a lot of limitations that Cubase, Sonar, Logic, PTHD etc. don't have. 32 (or 48 costing extra) track limitation, sample rate limitation and so on.

If they actually affect you or not is up to you. PT is a very fine program indeed but some prefer others. As easy as that really.

EDIT: it kind of depends on what you want to do. For mainly audio work i prefer PT but for midi and VSTis i much prefer Cubase.

Last edited by jupiter8; 23rd February 2007 at 12:06 AM.. Reason: extra info
Old 23rd February 2007
  #5
Gear nut
 

I use Cubase, changed from Logic a long time ago when it was still available for Windows platforms. I personally prefer Cubase over Logic in terms of usability and workflow, but that is a personal preference.

Obviously there is no such thing as "the best DAW", only one that best suits your needs and workflow. Reading your "complaints" about Cubase, I think you should consider

- In case you're using Cubase 4, yes, it's supposed to be pretty buggy at the moment. That's why I'm still using SX 3.x, which is rock solid. Pretty much all Steinberg major releases had issues which got fixed with subsequent minor updates.

- I see you intend to do Midi editing and have "problems" with that in Cubase. I don't really know PT, but as far as I know, Midi was (is?) not one of its strengths.

- If you want to work with VSTi and VST FX, I'd say Cubase actually IS the DAW of choice. Yes, there are many others that offer VST integration, but in that respect I haven't seen anything better than Cubase

Anyway, this seems to be a frequently discussed topic and you're likely to get a lot of different opinions and many will probably disagree with what I've said. So I guess the bottom line is that if you get the chance, try to demo different apps to get a feeling what might suit you better than Cubase. Maybe Sonar would be something worth checking out.
Old 23rd February 2007
  #6
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statikcat's Avatar
I dont have an issue with too many windows in Cubase at all.. but I know it in and out, have lots of key commands, and know where all the gui shortcuts are to do things mostly in the project window. If you are producing electronic music I would not choose Pro Tools over Cubase.. especially LE. Pro Tools LE is not that hot. It even gets lots of hate on these boards. Pro Tools may be used more in high end studios but is partially because it was the first big dog in the field. Also, there are not more Pro Tools rigs with people doing the kind of music you are doing. Cubase and Logic definitely have that field covered. Don't sacrifice your creative atmosphere for compatibility with Pro Tools. My 2 cents.

However, if you are concerned about taking your project to a pro studio you can always buy a cheap Pro Tools LE system and transfer the project LE yourself then send it off in PT /LE format.
Old 23rd February 2007
  #7
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gsilbers's Avatar
 

Composing in pro tools just sucks! (IMO)


Cubase sucks! (IMO)

im still waiting on a "thought-to-MIDI" interface for DAW

Old 23rd February 2007
  #8
Lives for gear
 
DivineMusic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FinoAttack View Post
But we're stuck! a million dollar question..Which DAW is the best?
No such thing.
its all personal preference.
i use to use PT and not your everyday le setup. i used a hd4 rig with 192 i/o's and a 32ch icon with every plugin you can think of...
is it trully worth it, personally...NO
you can build a native system that will just about sh*t on that setup for a 1/3 of the price... you can get all you mics,monitors,pres,comps,eq's,computer etc and still have money left over

i personally stick to nuendo 3 with a quality front end. (apogee, mytek, lynx)
it doesn't matter what program you have, if crap goes in crap is coming out.
the only true differences in these programs is the work flow and sometimes the pan law which can usually be adjusted.

At the moment my personal fav Daws to work with
Logic 7 pro(when using mac)
Nuendo 3.2 (mac or pc)
Sonar 6 (getting use to and actually like it)
Samplitude 9

i care less about anything digi haves to offer... i only use pro fools if i have to, and i don't usually have too... thats what omf or just loading the song in another daw is for.
Old 23rd February 2007
  #9
Lives for gear
 
sam c's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FinoAttack View Post
But we're stuck! a million dollar question..Which DAW is the best?


Thanx..

yawn, yawn, yawn.

My daddy is bigger than yours!

Silly isn't it! There are so many good work stations out there. Demo a few and find one that works. Be bold and look at others than just the "big names" casue they are often bloated.
Old 23rd February 2007
  #10
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Henchman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DivineMusic View Post
i care less about anything digi haves to offer... i only use pro fools if i have to, and i don't usually have too... thats what omf or just loading the song in another daw is for.
You know how I feel about PT's. Especially LE.

Have fun wasting time moving tracks or using the delay plug-in to get your stuff to play in synch in LE.
Old 23rd February 2007
  #11
Lives for gear
 
Harley-OIART's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman View Post
You know how I feel about PT's. Especially LE.

Have fun wasting time moving tracks or using the delay plug-in to get your stuff to play in synch in LE.
Is it because I'm very engineering oriented that I don't mind / prefer nudging ('MDC') to ADC or is it that I'm just too nerdy??

I have heard enough Anecdote's regarding inaccuracies (phasing) in somecases when using ADC, to not want to use it that badly personally.
Old 23rd February 2007
  #12
Gear addict
 

running

SX3, Live, and 2 HD rigs at the moment.

SX3 - the midi is good. Tempo map editor is horrible. Large sequences open slowly but not too bad, lots of midi tracks = bad news (talking like 100 midi or more). Silly GUI thing where they've created abstract icons for things (like on the mixer) that just look odd, but once used to it they're fine.

Side chaining next to impossible without some clever workarounds.

which is ********.
Old 23rd February 2007
  #13
Lives for gear
 
Henchman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harley-OIART View Post
Is it because I'm very engineering oriented that I don't mind / prefer nudging ('MDC') to ADC or is it that I'm just too nerdy??

I have heard enough Anecdote's regarding inaccuracies (phasing) in somecases when using ADC, to not want to use it that badly personally.
Maybe in PT's. I've herad no problems regarding ADC with DAWS that have it.
Old 23rd February 2007
  #14
Lives for gear
 
uncle duncan's Avatar
 

Wouldn't you lose all your VST instruments if you went to PT? Your other gripe, the issue of deleting unused audio files, will get you no matter what daw you use. You just have to develop good habits so they don't stack up on you to the point that they're unmanagable. As far as mixing goes, if you can't transfer your VST instruments to PT, you can record them as audio in Cubase and export wav files for the mix. You can compare that with the cost of buying a whole new DAW and virtual synths, and you might discover that doing the audio file transfers could save you a bundle. I really think PT's dominance in the audio field is going the way of the typewriter, but others (who have PT) will disagree. With the processing power of the new generation of computers, PT is obsolete. That is a fact. Whether the industry comes to grips with that fact remains to be seen.
Old 23rd February 2007
  #15
Lives for gear
 
DivineMusic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle duncan View Post
Wouldn't you lose all your VST instruments if you went to PT? Your other gripe, the issue of deleting unused audio files, will get you no matter what daw you use.
naw they have a vst to rtas converter...
but PF's midi sucks imo

as for deleting the unused audio its not hard or anything... just click the audio pool window and select remove unused media or what ever it says...
PF even HD's = a big ass headache and to many limitations. I'll take a native quad core with nuendo or sonar 6 over any PF setup

PF=Pro fools heh
Old 23rd February 2007
  #16
Lives for gear
 
shanabit's Avatar
 

I have an LE setup and I personally like to call it Pee Tools

Pro Fools just doesnt do anything for meheh .

I use Cubase for everything, I have Peetools for compatiblity only
Old 23rd February 2007
  #17
Lives for gear
 
Harley-OIART's Avatar
 

It wouldn't be a day on G.S. without the PT haters clucking away =)

My take 4 PT:
-The Midi is fine. If you want really good more advanced midi, then get logic or another app.
-"PT is obsolete, thats a fact" cracks me up. MIX rigs with 888's are still making great records... you got nothing there.
-Henchman's fav : "LE is such a toy" -> The limitations aren't exactly secret, they're published. If it doesn't do what you need it to you, make it do it, or better yet, don't buy it then. That argument is the same thig as saying that toyota camary is just a toy because it doesn't do what the F1 car does. They're both tools people... if it gets you to A&B safely with no headaches then its fine!

Stop pissing on something because its not your preference, just don't use it. You don't see me slagging on Cubase even though I really don't prefer it to other options.

[The funny part to me is, I'm just gonna be laughed away as the guy who "only comes to digi's defence because he owns a PT rig. Little do y'all know I bought it BECAUSE it did what I wanted it to do, limitations and all.]




"USE WHAT WORKS 4U!"
Old 23rd February 2007
  #18
Lives for gear
 
Harley-OIART's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DivineMusic View Post
PF even HD's = a big ass headache and to many limitations.
??? Yes. Recording Artists with Minimal Latency, High End Plugin Algorithms, & Great Converters is definetely a big headache.

Oh wait... It sucks because you don't know how to use it right?

Old 23rd February 2007
  #19
Lives for gear
 
shanabit's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harley-OIART View Post
It wouldn't be a day on G.S. without the PT haters clucking away =)

My take 4 PT:
-The Midi is fine. If you want really good more advanced midi, then get logic or another app.
-"PT is obsolete, thats a fact" cracks me up. MIX rigs with 888's are still making great records... you got nothing there.
-Henchman's fav : "LE is such a toy" -> The limitations aren't exactly secret, they're published. If it doesn't do what you need it to you, make it do it, or better yet, don't buy it then. That argument is the same thig as saying that toyota camary is just a toy because it doesn't do what the F1 car does. They're both tools people... if it gets you to A&B safely with no headaches then its fine!

Stop pissing on something because its not your preference, just don't use it. You don't see me slagging on Cubase even though I really don't prefer it to other options.

[The funny part to me is, I'm just gonna be laughed away as the guy who "only comes to digi's defence because he owns a PT rig. Little do y'all know I bought it BECAUSE it did what I wanted it to do, limitations and all.]




"USE WHAT WORKS 4U!"
I dont have ANY issues with Protools LE BTW, I knew the features when I got it.
I Wish I could get me an HD system thoughheh . I dont understand all the hating on the DAWS, really a waste of time IMO. Use what you like and screw everyone else
Old 23rd February 2007
  #20
Lives for gear
 

Most DAW software made will get most jobs done. If I had my studio set up in Cubase and found I was getting work done, then I'd stick with Cubase. I'm sort of tired of hearing that Pro Tools is the most popular. Does anyone have the install numbers on these DAW programs?

It's kind of interesting how this debate differs at particular forums. At one of the more "pro" sites, the debate always seems to involve Samplitude.
Old 23rd February 2007
  #21
Esession
 
gfantsaez's Avatar
 

the keywords that he mentioned to me are "electronic based music" - while I am the quintisential Pro Tools cheerleader - I say, for electronic music, without a doubt, go Logic.

I'm not a Cubase fan at all - used it many years ago - so it's possible it's grown up over the years...

Logic comes with SOOO many virtual instruments, included in the price, and so many instruments geared specifically for electronic music. You will spend twice the money buying virtual instruments for Pro Tools and get half the number of sounds...

You might want to go visit and Apple store and play with Logic and see if you bond with it....

Digital Performer would be my 2nd choice for electronic based music.

I love Pro Tools and the MIDI has greatly improved over the years - but I still find it an audio app that has MIDI functionality - while to me, Logic, DP and Cubase are MIDI apps that have audio functionality...

While Pro Tools excels at recording, editing and mixing audio, it only comes with one virtual instrument and that free VI called "Xpand" is not multi-timbral and is just pretty lame IMO...

I always say, if you're recording 80% audio (live tracks, vocals, live drums, guitars etc) and 20% MIDI, then go with Pro Tools. But, if you're doing 80% programming and 20% audio tracks, go Logic or DP. The learning curve is much steeper than Pro Tools, but Logic is a great application....

that's my 2 cents anyway....
Old 23rd February 2007
  #22
Gear maniac
 

For me its Reaper.

Just a better paradigm all around.
Old 23rd February 2007
  #23
Lives for gear
 
Harley-OIART's Avatar
 

I am in complete and total agreement gfantsaez.

My personal List of applications I respect :

-Logic
-SADiE
-Cool Edit Pro / Audition
-Reason
-Nuendo
-RADAR
-Digital Preformer
-Garage Band
-Trackiton
-Samplitude
-Har-Bal (although I don't use it ever
-A razorblade and 2" 16 Track
-Never used (Reaper, Sequoia, Sonic Solutions, others I left out)

They are just tools. Use what works.

That being said... Cubase is pretty sweet. Big ups for Garageband tho
Old 23rd February 2007
  #24
Lives for gear
 
Solar's Avatar
 

I second..

Hey FinoAttack!!

I hear ya as many here and its true, you must let us know really wich PT system you're talking about or that you're loking for to upgrade your studio. If its PT LE or M-powered.. you'll be very much limited and its CRAP (not sound wise) but the fact that limited track etc.. Hope one day Digi will wake up and finally understand that people do not want anymore LIMITATIONS!!

If PT HD then you start talking real b usiness. And for me i woudl simply suggest you to try also REAPER, and you have also 30 days trial free all Features unlock.. or check out SAMPLITUDE for real (version 9, latest one)

But again as many said even Mr Kevin, its all about your own and personal taste, try them, the one that attract your eyes and DRAW your own conclusion man, that is the way to go!!

Later & goodluck!!

Edit: in m side, i got Nuendo as main, Reaper in the process (learning it but love it) and PT m-powered simply file transfer or if a client bring a project or ask me if i have it.. thats all!!

Last edited by Solar; 23rd February 2007 at 06:02 AM.. Reason: Adding
Old 23rd February 2007
  #25
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by shanabit View Post

I use Cubase for everything, I have Peetools for compatiblity only
Me too.
I can work faster in Nuendo and much prefer it.
I have PT LE only to transfer files to open and happily continue working on using Nuendo.
As for the unused files piling up, there is a delete unused files command that works perfectly.

All recording programs suck until you really learn how to use them.
Old 23rd February 2007
  #26
Maybe it doesn't make sense for everybody to chip in, but here goes:

Logic Pro offers the best balance between MIDI and audio, and the best bundled effects and synths.

But if I had to choose between ProTools and Cubase because I only had a Windows PC, Cubase would win every time.
Old 23rd February 2007
  #27
Lives for gear
 
kingofswing's Avatar
I have used Cubase SX 3, and feel that the midi timing in Logic is much better, tighter to be precise.

As a Logic and Neundo user, i see adv/disadvantages of both. But for me Logic is a better app for my use and workflow.

The worst thing for me regarding Cubase / Nuendo has to be the terrible integration of software synths. It's such a process to insert softsynths, not as simple as Logic.
Old 23rd February 2007
  #28
Lives for gear
 
taturana's Avatar
i myself like sonar best... but cubase is up there on the list... as for pt (especially le) i'd rather do without it...

not a digi fan here...
Old 23rd February 2007
  #29
Lives for gear
 
Aisle 6's Avatar
Preacher man!

I love Pro Tools and the MIDI has greatly improved over the years - but I still find it an audio app that has MIDI functionality - while to me, Logic, DP and Cubase are MIDI apps that have audio functionality...

Amen brother!
Old 23rd February 2007
  #30
Lives for gear
 
tamasdragon's Avatar
 

So, we can agree in that every major daw can give you pro results, if the equipment is fine, and mostly "you", who operates it.
I vote for cubase/nuendo.
Tamas Dragon
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