The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Why do most musicians/songwriters get worse with age?
Old 22nd November 2020 | Show parent
  #211
Lives for gear
 
telecode's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaviT ➡️
To my personal taste, one band I consider better as they've aged is Radiohead.
I also think it all depends what genre and type of artist the artist is. Radiohead operate in a genre where they can do certain things and afford risks to be relevant. But they aren't just a bunch of guys that sit around on a porch and strum guitars all day trying to come up with a cool tune. The entire Radiohead fan experience is all very planned out and thought out.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/willbur...h=288f356b2ce9

It get's a little trickier in other genres. I still recall the Pat Boone heavy metal album. It was one of those things where you don't know, "Is it parody?" "Is it a joke?" But was it fun and interesting and good entertainment? Sure it was. Is he better than he was in the 50s?

Old 27th November 2020
  #212
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I’m 61 and get better all the time. I put in a lot of time playing writing and recording. Singing too. It all continues to improve
Old 30th December 2020
  #213
Gear Addict
 
cubic13's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 136358 ➡️
There are some exceptions, but I and I'm sure many other people have noticed a general decline in quality of musicians as they get older.

Is there a physical change in the brain or is it more environmental?

Just curious

An 'exception', I guess...

Old 30th December 2020 | Show parent
  #214
Lives for gear
 
telecode's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cubic13 ➡️
An 'exception', I guess...
But people like Neil Young are miles removed from what is considered modern music that appeals to a modern audience. People like him make music for the generation of fans who have been his fans since the 60s & 70s.
Old 31st December 2020 | Show parent
  #215
Gear Addict
 
cubic13's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by telecode ➡️
But people like Neil Young are miles removed from what is considered modern music that appeals to a modern audience. People like him make music for the generation of fans who have been his fans since the 60s & 70s.
Could be (I'm one of them...), but isn't it the case for nearly all musicians/composers having crossed the more or less 60 yo boundary ?

In this case, the thread is flawed since the beginning, as the so-called "decline" can actually be directly related to the average audience tastes at a given time t, instead of being related to the skills/creativity of an aging artist.

Just wondering or maybe, and as a conclusion, definitely qualify the whole problematic as 'environmental'...
Old 31st December 2020
  #216
Here for the gear
 
This isn't a thing with classic composers. Aside from rare exceptions like Ravel or Sibelius, they generally got better with time, even if they may have been considered outdated at the time.

Does anyone know if worse with age is considered true in other cultures too or only in the west?
Old 31st December 2020 | Show parent
  #217
Gear Maniac
 
Zed999's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by telecode ➡️
But people like Neil Young are miles removed from what is considered modern music that appeals to a modern audience. People like him make music for the generation of fans who have been his fans since the 60s & 70s.
I honestly can't think of anyone else like Neil Young. My ex had her moment of enlightenment when she was about 45. He doesn't appear to put any weight on what other people think if he likes it himself, I think he's always been like that and that's the key to his long career.

Following fashion has been the end for many.
Old 31st December 2020 | Show parent
  #218
Lives for gear
 
telecode's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cubic13 ➡️
Could be (I'm one of them...), but isn't it the case for nearly all musicians/composers having crossed the more or less 60 yo boundary ?

In this case, the thread is flawed since the beginning, as the so-called "decline" can actually be directly related to the average audience tastes at a given time t, instead of being related to the skills/creativity of an aging artist.

Just wondering or maybe, and as a conclusion, definitely qualify the whole problematic as 'environmental'...
I think there are the true greats and giants of music and then there are the average joes. Neil Young along with some others are part of the few that are the greats. A lot of others from his generation -- for example, lets look at Graham Nash records or perhaps Jefferson Airplaine records and compare what they released in later part of their careers to what they did in their hey day in the 60s and 70s. There is a decline IMO. Even a great vocalist like Graham Nash makes dudes in modern days.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_Nash#Studio_albums

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffer...ne#Discography

I am a Todd Rundgen fan and one of those that think Todd is God. But even his newer output has IMO declined compared to what he did in the 70s and 80s. The new releases are interesting and modern for someone of his generation but they aren't breaking ground anymore.
Old 31st December 2020 | Show parent
  #219
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Interesting chart. Outside athletics, most peaks of achievement come after 40.



For Grammy Album of the Year the age averages to 40 since the mid 1980s.

Old 31st December 2020 | Show parent
  #220
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cubic13 ➡️
An 'exception', I guess...

There's no decline here but no growth either. Its Neil Young strumming his guitar and singing along very emotively, as he's always done.

Trent Reznor would be a good example of steady growth. He just scored the SOUL movie, which is absolutely incredible and a huge journey from where he started.
Old 2nd January 2021 | Show parent
  #221
Gear Addict
 
cubic13's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 ➡️
There's no decline here but no growth either. Its Neil Young strumming his guitar and singing along very emotively, as he's always done.
Yep, but the thread isn't about 'growth', it's about 'decline'. The former being another subject, worth its own thread, I guess. In case you know a little about Neil Young carrer, I don't think that "Mirror Ball' or even "Weld" is in the same strumming league as "After the gold rush". I posted this Youtube link because for me it's one of his best title in this century, but I could have posted "Ramada Inn" instead without problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 ➡️
Trent Reznor would be a good example of steady growth. He just scored the SOUL movie, which is absolutely incredible and a huge journey from where he started.
I don't know NIN enough to 'judge'. From which, it's diffcult for me to say whether Reznor went through a steady growth or not. He seems to be rather eclectic, at least musically, and that's surely a plus. After this...
Old 2nd January 2021 | Show parent
  #222
Lives for gear
 
telecode's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cubic13 ➡️
Yep, but the thread isn't about 'growth', it's about 'decline'. The former being another subject, worth its own thread, I guess. In case you know a little about Neil Young carrer, I don't think that "Mirror Ball' or even "Weld" is in the same strumming league as "After the gold rush". I posted this Youtube link because for me it's one of his best title in this century, but I could have posted "Ramada Inn" instead without problem.



I don't know NIN enough to 'judge'. From which, it's diffcult for me to say whether Reznor went through a steady growth or not. He seems to be rather eclectic, at least musically, and that's surely a plus. After this...
The whole argument about age and decline is pretty much tied to charts and pop music. Certain artists that operate in roots, folk and Americana music can not decline because they don't really compete with artists that try to top charts. You will never hear anyone say Bill Monroe's records got worse or better as he aged. With some other artists, their association with certain producers or corporations tends to bring them back into trendiness and current. The Johnny Cash records on Def Jam are a great example. He became much more popular and trendy in later life than he was in 80s and that's mostly due to Rick Rubin.

I recently watched and listened to the new Kylie Minogue single on YT. Now that IMO is an interesting head scratcher. She is a pretty old artist (going on 30+ years -- there is only 5 years difference between Madonna's Like a Virgin pop reign and Minogues chart hits with Stock, Aitken and Waterman in 1988 -- so they are in essence very similar artists as far as pop music history is concerned ) who is still trying to compete on the pop charts with the likes of Dua Lipa e.t.c Is the new music a decline for the artist or does she occupy her own space in that genre?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZucxtSFe2s


Re: Neil Young.. I liked that Le Noise record that he did. It was cool and different. I don't like the folk and piano strumming stuff. I think his type of music belong to a different era. But music is all subjective anyways so my opinion is irrelevant.

RE: Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross soundtracks. I don't think it's that particularly ground breaking stuff. The only thing ground breaking about it is that Hollywood/David Fincher chose to use Reznor music for a score instead of turning to the usual suspects (James Horner, Zimmer, .e.t.c) to score the films. For anyone that is familiar with NIN music -- you can hear lots of stuff in those soundtracks that can be directly mapped to NIN records. What is interesting about Reznor and Ross scores is -- even with an army of very competent and brilliant composers working on big budget hollywood films, it took Fincher turning to a rock star to make a score which seems to kick start a new era in film soundtrack trends. The standard Hollywod composers are too afraid to take risks on a big budget film. A alternative rock star like Reznor doesn't have that problem as he has been taking risks and making what can be labeled as fringe music since the early 90s. His entire career is based on being on the outside of popular trends. Now that he is the mainstream, it will be interesting to see where he does with it.
Old 4th January 2021 | Show parent
  #223
Gear Addict
 
cubic13's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by telecode ➡️
The whole argument about age and decline is pretty much tied to charts and pop music. Certain artists that operate in roots, folk and Americana music can not decline because they don't really compete with artists that try to top charts.
Which equals to say that the whole thing is tied to their once well-known status. From which, and as the trends change, one way or another the 'artist' will be perceived as 'declining'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by telecode ➡️
The Johnny Cash records on Def Jam are a great example. He became much more popular and trendy in later life than he was in 80s and that's mostly due to Rick Rubin.
He is indeed is a good example of how a 'worse' or 'better' perception of an artist can be mitigated through a career : what part is due to his own eventually increasing skills and what other, to Rubin influence ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by telecode ➡️
I recently watched and listened to the new Kylie Minogue single on YT. Now that IMO is an interesting head scratcher. She is a pretty old artist (going on 30+ years -- there is only 5 years difference between Madonna's Like a Virgin pop reign and Minogues chart hits with Stock, Aitken and Waterman in 1988 -- so they are in essence very similar artists as far as pop music history is concerned ) who is still trying to compete on the pop charts with the likes of Dua Lipa e.t.c Is the new music a decline for the artist or does she occupy her own space in that genre?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZucxtSFe2s
Not my cup of tea, honestly : I have the rather embarrassing impression to have heard/seen this kind of show 9473 times in the last 40 years : nothing new - a recipe that has been exploited to death, IMO. And I wasn't a fan of Madonna, either, in the '80s... So, it's difficult for me to say if there has been any king of 'growth' concerning her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by telecode ➡️
Re: Neil Young.. I liked that Le Noise record that he did. It was cool and different. I don't like the folk and piano strumming stuff. I think his type of music belong to a different era. But music is all subjective anyways so my opinion is irrelevant.
Sure, subjectivity is the key, as well as the trends of a given time. So, I'm not sure that a 'decline/growth' concerning any artist is truely relevent. I wouldn't say the same thing for groups/bands : other things are playing a part, in this case and, even for very well known one, 'decline' is much more obvious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by telecode ➡️
RE: Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross soundtracks. I don't think it's that particularly ground breaking stuff. The only thing ground breaking about it is that Hollywood/David Fincher chose to use Reznor music for a score instead of turning to the usual suspects (James Horner, Zimmer, .e.t.c) to score the films. For anyone that is familiar with NIN music -- you can hear lots of stuff in those soundtracks that can be directly mapped to NIN records. What is interesting about Reznor and Ross scores is -- even with an army of very competent and brilliant composers working on big budget hollywood films, it took Fincher turning to a rock star to make a score which seems to kick start a new era in film soundtrack trends. The standard Hollywod composers are too afraid to take risks on a big budget film. A alternative rock star like Reznor doesn't have that problem as he has been taking risks and making what can be labeled as fringe music since the early 90s. His entire career is based on being on the outside of popular trends. Now that he is the mainstream, it will be interesting to see where he does with it.
I have a mixed impression, concerning Reznor : I remember having seen him working with Bowie, which wasn't exactly 'outside of popular trends', in my view. But again, I don't know him enough to make definitely my mind about whether he has improved himself with time.
Old 5th January 2021 | Show parent
  #224
Lives for gear
 
telecode's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cubic13 ➡️
I have a mixed impression, concerning Reznor : I remember having seen him working with Bowie, which wasn't exactly 'outside of popular trends', in my view. But again, I don't know him enough to make definitely my mind about whether he has improved himself with time.
Reznor was big in the early 90s with NIN in the alternative underground goth scene. I think the work with Bowie and Manson came a little after the first two big NIN records. His influence on film soundtracks is mostly based on the fact that NIN records were not that big in mass culture -- so when those sounds started getting combined with images -- it became very interesting and "original" in the era where sound design trumps orchestra scores in cinema.

Neil Young is a bad example b/c I think he is just too large an artist in the history of rock and roll. He will have hard core fans where he can do no wrong ever.
Old 6th January 2021 | Show parent
  #225
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by telecode ➡️
Reznor was big in the early 90s with NIN in the alternative underground goth scene. I think the work with Bowie and Manson came a little after the first two big NIN records. His influence on film soundtracks is mostly based on the fact that NIN records were not that big in mass culture -- so when those sounds started getting combined with images -- it became very interesting and "original" in the era where sound design trumps orchestra scores in cinema.

Neil Young is a bad example b/c I think he is just too large an artist in the history of rock and roll. He will have hard core fans where he can do no wrong ever.
Yes.

Old 6th January 2021 | Show parent
  #226
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by telecode ➡️
Neil Young is a bad example b/c I think he is just too large an artist in the history of rock and roll. He will have hard core fans where he can do no wrong ever.
Plenty of historic artists go on to alienate or kinda embarrass themselves to their fans though. There’s something to be said for staying true without losing the spark. I don’t see development but certainly no regression or odd left turns, which is certainly something.
Old 6th January 2021 | Show parent
  #227
Lives for gear
Oh sure, Nicoli Tesla died poor and alone.
Old 10th January 2021
  #228
Deleted fe72b38 ðŸŽ™ï¸
Guest
Why do people post questions as if the question is an already established fact?

The question is,

Do musicians/songwriters get worse with age?

The answer is some do some don't.

Usually it's the lens through which they're viewed that changes and so subjective opinion and popularity shifts too.
Old 15th January 2021 | Show parent
  #229
Lives for gear
 
Unclenny's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I just hit 69. I have slowed down a little but I'm still writing and recording.

I think my writing is actually improving in subtle ways. I don't try quite as hard these days so there is a more organic flow to my process.

This is certainly something that you can't generalize about.
Old 15th January 2021 | Show parent
  #230
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted fe72b38 ➡️
Why do people post questions as if the question is an already established fact?
I think it's from watching too many Columbo reruns.

"Forgive me, I'm still confused so maybe you can help me clarify... was Mrs. Wiggins in a nightgown or pajamas when you strangled her?"
Old 15th January 2021 | Show parent
  #231
Lives for gear
 
AfterViewer's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
As you get older (bodily manifestation vehicle) you definitely establish priorities that may not include competing in the Pop Tunes Hit-List or jumping around on stage for fame, adoration, and distinction. That said, you are more likely kicking back enjoying your musicianship and music audio at your leisure. Something to aspire for, unless you are a workaholic 'til the very end of your tour package (Personality Type A).

Last edited by AfterViewer; 15th January 2021 at 08:23 PM..
Old 15th January 2021 | Show parent
  #232
Lives for gear
 
AfterViewer's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unclenny ➡️
I just hit 69. I have slowed down a little but I'm still writing and recording.

I think my writing is actually improving in subtle ways. I don't try quite as hard these days so there is a more organic flow to my process.

This is certainly something that you can't generalize about.
Yes. Refining your skills, plus.
Old 15th January 2021 | Show parent
  #233
Deleted fe72b38 ðŸŽ™ï¸
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn ➡️
I think it's from watching too many Columbo reruns.

"Forgive me, I'm still confused so maybe you can help me clarify... was Mrs. Wiggins in a nightgown or pajamas when you strangled her?"
Old 15th January 2021 | Show parent
  #234
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 ➡️
Interesting chart. Outside athletics, most peaks of achievement come after 40.



For Grammy Album of the Year the age averages to 40 since the mid 1980s.



Old 18th January 2021 | Show parent
  #235
Lives for gear
 
LFO8's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 ➡️
Interesting chart. Outside athletics, most peaks of achievement come after 40.



For Grammy Album of the Year the age averages to 40 since the mid 1980s.

Do you have a source for these charts, or a link to the study?
Old 18th January 2021
  #236
Old 18th January 2021
  #237
Maybe funny, maybe not, but I've noticed that when a number of my favorite musicians/bands start writing and recording politically-inspired music, it tends to suck a lot more. And not just solely because of the lyrics....
Old 19th January 2021 | Show parent
  #238
Lives for gear
 
LFO8's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Thanks!
📝 Reply
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearspace Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…

Forum Jump
Forum Jump