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Why do most musicians/songwriters get worse with age?
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CupcakeKitten View Post
We have to lean on backing, simply because i'm not an octopus and can't sing multiple layers at the same time either - and audiences expect a live show to sound somewhat similar to the songs and albums they enjoy.
Yeah live shows tend to be either a DJ playing mastered songs, backing tracks with one or a few of parts being performed live, or live sequencing the parts of the track by muting and unmuting the various parts with some smaller degree of in-the-moment control of the arrangement and fx/filters.

There's really no other way to do it. Music recording used to be about capturing the sound of an existing and limited set of instruments that already sounded good together live. Its turned into its own thing though, something more like a painting, and doesn't really translate backwards towards a live performance, the way you don't pay to watch painters paint. People harness and master the tedious and time consuming skill of studio production, then have to. . . perform that live somehow.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
Yeah live shows tend to be either a DJ playing mastered songs, backing tracks with one or a few of parts being performed live, or live sequencing the parts of the track by muting and unmuting the various parts with some smaller degree of in-the-moment control of the arrangement and fx/filters.

There's really no other way to do it. Music recording used to be about capturing the sound of an existing and limited set of instruments that already sounded good together live. Its turned into its own thing though, something more like a painting, and doesn't really translate backwards towards a live performance, the way you don't pay to watch painters paint. People harness and master the tedious and time consuming skill of studio production, then have to. . . perform that live somehow.
Yeah exactly. Even in the more 'instrument-focused' genres like rock or metal have a similar issue. Many of these musicians are ridiculously talented and can play extremely well, but when for example a guitar sound was created in production by stacking layers to get that super fat, modern metal sound it's just not really possible for a guitarist alone to reproduce that guitar sound live without a bit of backing support etc. It doesn't make them any less talented either!
I think you're right about it almost going back on itself - recording and production for many current artists is such a big part of an artist or band finding, building or creating their 'sound', rather than recording and production aiming only to capture it.
I also like to see what artists and bands do with the live situation too as a result - some have a bit more of a shift towards a circus/theatre approach to live shows - from smaller local bands dressing up, experimenting with a bit of choreography, little tricks and stunts etc through to arena bands like Rammstein who have the most overkill stunt/pyro music show i've ever seen. It'll be interesting to see how live shows develop from here ^^
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #183
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telecode's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
They'd have had fun with the fact that they were seeing a legend. I doubt they'd have thought it was the coolest thing ever, at least at the musical level. Mick Jagger showing up unannounced to play a small room for an unsuspecting crowd would be the coolest thing ever to that crowd, but that's because of who he is. Singing a bunch of depressing songs they'd never heard not so much, they'd be like "that was cool but I really wish he played Paint it Black."
I think my point is, if an well know and established artists does weirder off beat music -- they can do it because they have psychological baggage and image attached to them. if a nobody tries to do it they would just lose an audience and people walk out because its weird and it's not entertaining to them. For example, I am a huge Iggy Pop fan. He can do weird stuff on stage (well not anymore -- he's really old now) and get away with it because he has all that Iggy Pop legend and baggage he carries around him -- the lost anti-establishment Detroit 60s rock and roller legend thing and the connection to Bowie and drugs e.t.c.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #184
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telecode's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by boombapdame View Post
I @ telecode feel if music was less image based it would be easier to appreciate music overall and but about disconnect is it rooted in genre or the idea that music is moreso a product when attached to commercial impetus?
I don't agree. Some of the best and more influential artists are so because they also have an image that matches their musical art. Missy Elliot and Busta Rhymes would never have become the artists they became if they looked and dressed like they work at Costco. Hip-hop and R&B in particular has a HUGE visual element to it that is part and parcel of the fantasy escapism appeal.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #185
Well, that will teach me to match wits with the master!

I can see several people have already reported this inbred moron's comments. Mods, you know what to do -- and thank you for your help here. It's a shame that idiots like this go through the trouble of making an account just to spew ridiculous lies and attack others. Guess he doesn't have a life.

Steve

Edit: By the way, I already put this mouth-breather on ignore long ago. For any of you who don't want an otherwise interesting conversation to be derailed by the ravings of a lunatic, I suggest you do the same. It's a shame when siblings reproduce folks, and this is why it's generally outlawed. Note, I say "generally".
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #186
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CupcakeKitten's Avatar
 

Obvious troll is... well... obvious. Some people have as much subtlety as a curry fart on a crowded plane.

Always worth remembering though, that everyone brings joy. Some when they arrive, and others when they leave.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #187
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Well, let's face it. The public wants to see young beautiful faces doing music videos. And burnout is a factor too, combined with everything free on the internet.

And the good ones have enough money to say goodbye.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #188
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Yes, I don't see what race has to do with any of this. Everyone has has hard times when they are young. That makes their music better, writing about real life hardships. when you get old you get comfortable.

One of mine I made in my 20's



I'm 50 now.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noisewagon View Post
Yes, I don't see what race has to do with any of this. Everyone has has hard times when they are young. That makes their music better, writing about real life hardships. when you get old you get comfortable.

One of mine I made in my 20's



I'm 50 now.
Nice : )
Industrial-ish metal meets a hint of 80's Mötley Crüe-ish singing style
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #190
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CupcakeKitten's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noisewagon View Post
Yes, I don't see what race has to do with any of this. Everyone has has hard times when they are young. That makes their music better, writing about real life hardships. when you get old you get comfortable.

One of mine I made in my 20's



I'm 50 now.
Fierce track! Thanks for sharing!

I think you might be right - certainly in your late teens and early 20's, a lot of experiences are really new. For many it's pretty fresh from their first ever experiences of love, heartbreak, disappointment, independence and adventure etc, which is pretty great fuel for music (or any other art form!). I don't think these things necessarily lose impact as you get older either, it's just experience adds a different tone to it I guess? I'm just speculating, but you brought up an interesting point here!
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #191
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I know you young people can write a hit song.

Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #192
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telecode's Avatar
i think this thread has take a weird psychedelic turn. the last few posts make me feel like I am tripping on something.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #193
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Somebodyperson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 136358 View Post
There are some exceptions, but I and I'm sure many other people have noticed a general decline in quality of musicians as they get older.

Is there a physical change in the brain or is it more environmental?

Just curious
Alcohol kills brain cells.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by telecode View Post
i think this thread has take a weird psychedelic turn. the last few posts make me feel like I am tripping on something.
Nah, that thread got a brain surgery a few hours ago and someone/something invisible took bits out of it. Now the last page reads like people are tripping. I'm acually missing this threads pet idiot who triggered creative responces [and unsurprisingly triggered a mod cull]. Always a good training haha

Last edited by TobyToby; 3 weeks ago at 10:43 PM..
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TobyToby View Post
Nice : )
Industrial-ish metal meets a hint of 80's Mötley Crüe-ish singing style
Hey thanks. We did open for Motley Crue once.

Old 3 weeks ago
  #196
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Older artists always start to second guess themselves, they start looking backward and start to chill.

Youth has a unique energy and forward vision.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #197
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telecode's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehightenor View Post
Older artists always start to second guess themselves, they start looking backward and start to chill.

Youth has a unique energy and forward vision.
every time i look online, i keep getting the impression that youth are looking backwards in the past. all the trendy retro 80s and (the slowly creeping in) retro 90s sounds.

my point is, when i was "youth" 30+ years ago, we didn't dig into 50s rock & roll or Frand Sinatra music for sounds and ideas. The ones that did, it was a shtick. A lot of trendy youth of today seem to be digging into music from 30 years ago for inspiration.

Maybe I just dont get it.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #198
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docbop's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thehightenor View Post
Older artists always start to second guess themselves, they start looking backward and start to chill.

Youth has a unique energy and forward vision.
I don't think it's age as much as it is being hungry. You see groups whose first album is great, but second album comes about and it's no happening. They got a full belly from the first album and that hunger isn't there anymore.

Another part is new groups many are still naive about music is a business. They run face first into the wall when they discover they are just meat puppets in the music business money making machine. They realize all their dreams of being an "artist" was just that a dream, they are now just another cog in the music machine.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by telecode View Post
every time i look online, i keep getting the impression that youth are looking backwards in the past. all the trendy retro 80s and (the slowly creeping in) retro 90s sounds.

my point is, when i was "youth" 30+ years ago, we didn't dig into 50s rock & roll or Frand Sinatra music for sounds and ideas. The ones that did, it was a shtick. A lot of trendy youth of today seem to be digging into music from 30 years ago for inspiration.

Maybe I just dont get it.
I think when recording was expensive and something you needed to get signed by a record company who paid the bills to do. So a lot of effort had to be put into working on your music to get the attention of a someone who could take you into the studio. A lot more listening to other groups, understanding what music fans want, a whole lot more work in gaining musically "street smarts" to write and develop music that people want.

Now recording is too easy and everyone thinks if they buy the right gear they can called themselves artists or musicians. So a big world of one hit wonders.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #200
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telecode's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by docbop View Post
I think when recording was expensive and something you needed to get signed by a record company who paid the bills to do. So a lot of effort had to be put into working on your music to get the attention of a someone who could take you into the studio. A lot more listening to other groups, understanding what music fans want, a whole lot more work in gaining musically "street smarts" to write and develop music that people want.

Now recording is too easy and everyone thinks if they buy the right gear they can called themselves artists or musicians. So a big world of one hit wonders.
I also think the big world of one hit wonders is just a result of much more music ever being released than ever before and also that music being much more easily accessible than ever before. there were tons of one hit wonders in the 70s 80s 90s that gained some sort of popularity in the local geographic area they lived in but you had zero chance of hearing them if you didn't live and belong in that geographic area. there was not record company to radio station that would broadcast it. not some of those types of musicians get manage to crawl their way onto a YouTube playlist and get heard. You may become a fan and follow them forever or you may just come across their song once and never see them again.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by telecode View Post
every time i look online, i keep getting the impression that youth are looking backwards in the past. all the trendy retro 80s and (the slowly creeping in) retro 90s sounds.

my point is, when i was "youth" 30+ years ago, we didn't dig into 50s rock & roll or Frand Sinatra music for sounds and ideas. The ones that did, it was a shtick. A lot of trendy youth of today seem to be digging into music from 30 years ago for inspiration.

Maybe I just dont get it.
There are no new toys offering brand new sonic landscapes to explore like there were pretty much every 5 years last century until the around the turn of the century.

I think the only major "never heard this before" offering from tech this century was the level of synth modulation ITB brought to the table around 2010. Last century was ripe with new sonic offerings as the technological revolution took place. There's no tech feeding a "what's next" mindset, so people just make what they like, often turning to the past.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #202
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The most obvious answers to what causes songwriters to experience a loss of creative fire over time are alcohol, drugs, and the many distractions of success. If enough time passes, deafness and senility can be issues.
I know at least some of these have been mentioned, maybe all.
I didn’t notice this thread until today. I read some of it and spotted through the rest. Fortunately I missed being here for the now-removed kerfuffle.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #203
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telecode's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
There are no new toys offering brand new sonic landscapes to explore like there were pretty much every 5 years last century until the around the turn of the century.

I think the only major "never heard this before" offering from tech this century was the level of synth modulation ITB brought to the table around 2010. Last century was ripe with new sonic offerings as the technological revolution took place. There's no tech feeding a "what's next" mindset, so people just make what they like, often turning to the past.
I think using VST's and FX is a new and different way from what is considered normal is a new toy and sound. I see a lot of non commercial EDM artists in the Lo-Fi and ChillStep genres doing it. I like that much more than hipster trendy trying to create homages to early 80s analogue synth pop. Those early 80s records were good music but they belong to a different era of music history. No point re-visiting it again.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #204
Quote:
Originally Posted by 136358 View Post
There are some exceptions, but I and I'm sure many other people have noticed a general decline in quality of musicians as they get older.

Is there a physical change in the brain or is it more environmental?

Just curious
Because getting old is hell.

Now get the hell off my lawn, whippersnapper, or it's into the woodchipper with you!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #205
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I haven't read most of this thread but this is really an easy question with an easy answer, pretty much answered above. EVERYONE gets worse with age sooner or later; it's just a question of when. Obviously some greats were able to stay in (or return to) greatness, both writing and performing, well past the time many thought they would. Some others did a quick fade. But we all tend to decline as we age. It sucks. But it's reality.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #206
In my case, I would say the quality of my writing has largely improved all the way along...

... unfortunately, the quantity started dropping way off. Way.


I need to find my way back to a happy medium. That said, in the old days my writing was driven by my emotions, often rocked by my latest infatuation or old schoolboy crush. These days, my current reality doesn't really drive my emotions sufficiently to gin up much creativity.

But my fingerpicking has really improved. I've got that, anyhow. For now.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #207
I like the progression artists take on their journey from young to old typically. I really don't like bands that forever write to high school age children. There's certainly nothing wrong with it, i just can't relate. And that's important sometimes.

For me, their are plenty of artists that never lost anything with age. It's very specific to my individual tastes, but two artists right off the the top are tom waits, and chrome. They just keep delivering for me.

New music I'm sure their is some that I like. It's more an issue of me not actively seeking it like i did when i was younger. Now i seem to find bands i missed and research that then seek new artists. I'd probably be more active with that if i cared at all about internet radio and podcasts.

I don't think all artists get worse with age, or new music is all bad. I think the feild has changed as all things do.
Old 1 week ago
  #208
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My songwriting has improved over the years, one ends up with so much experience after 40 years of writing
that you know, your songs become kinda perfect compositions.

In which case yeah, I'm probably getting worse
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #209
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TomPaul's Avatar
I read in a book called "The Ascent of Man" that most geniuses have their basic ideas at a young age...Einstein as a clerk thinking up relativity, Newton, and others. Then they spend the rest of their careers refining these ideas or adding onto them. The spark of genius came young. Maybe there is something like that going on in art too.

I think I am writing some good songs now....but then I wasn't very good when I was young and I am not a genius. Oddly, at the age of 63 I am playing the best golf of my life too....and I have played a lot all my life. Retirement has freed up some brain cells and I am less stressed, which helps with writing and golf.
Old 1 week ago
  #210
Gear Head
To my personal taste, one band I consider better as they've aged is Radiohead.
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