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An album full of nothing but hits does not necessarily equal a good album Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 4th August 2014
  #31
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Herr Weiss's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
... to always put effort into appreciating...
That sounds like forcing oneself to like something that is not worthy.


As you claimed to be a fan,
here's a lovely song by the Beatles,
oops,
BEE GEES.


Old 4th August 2014
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herr Weiss View Post
That sounds like forcing oneself to like something that is not worthy.


As you claimed to be a fan,
here's a lovely song by the Beatles,
oops,
BEE GEES.


Maybe. Or maybe by NOT putting in a bit of effort to understand and appreciate more current perspectives, you rob yourself of enjoyin something like the BeeGees, like so many aging musicians in the 60s and 70s. The kids and club goers certainly were ahead of the musicians as far as taste back then!

Cool tune! I highly prefer listening to the Bee Gees to the Beatles personally.
Old 4th August 2014
  #33
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herr Weiss View Post
"Even if everybody in the world agreed that a song was 'good' or 'bad', that does not prove that it is objectively 'good' or 'bad'.
All it shows is that everyone has the same subjective view."

-loodmoney


"All music is art.
"All art is subjective."

-Bonsaik
Good can be defined as something having a favorable quality and guess what???

Adele, Justin Bieber, Bruno Mars, Bob Dylan, The Beatles, etc all had songs that had a favorable quality because MILLIONS OF PEOPLE LOVED THEIR SONGS AND BOUGHT MILLIONS OF ALBUMS.

Now you can say that song was good to them which is correct and I agree but the only reason why you wouldnt say that it is objectively good is because 100% of the humans on earth didnt agree that it was good.
Old 4th August 2014
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli on the Grind View Post
Now you can say that song was good to them which is correct and I agree but the only reason why you wouldnt say that it is objectively good is because 100% of the humans on earth didnt agree that it was good.

Some people couldn't care less about music, some are deaf or tone deaf. heh

Old 5th August 2014
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
The kids and club goers certainly were ahead of the musicians as far as taste back then!

Yeah, I was going to post this other album as an example instead of the Gibb brothers.

I chickened out.


Old 5th August 2014
  #36
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herr Weiss View Post
Some people couldn't care less about music, some are deaf or tone deaf. heh

I'm aware of that hence why I said IF 100% of the humans of Earth agreed which implies a hypothetical scenario where it is possible to show that 100% of humans can agree to because they have the all the abilities to agree on something and did so.



NEXT>>>>>>>
Old 5th August 2014
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli on the Grind View Post
I'm aware of that hence why I said IF 100% of the humans of Earth agreed which implies a hypothetical scenario where it is possible to show that 100% of humans can agree to because they have the all the abilities to agree on something and did so.



NEXT>>>>>>>
Yes, I agree!!!



HW
Old 5th August 2014
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
Here are the Bee Gee's being reviewed as "banal, trite, and without grace" in 1968. My jazz instructor at the University couldn't say the word "BeeGee" without looking like he was choking down sour milk.

Bee Gees Idea Album Review | Rolling Stone

This type of knocking the new generation's music is excruciatingly more banal than any music has ever been! Talk about pointless and repetitive! You you guys LIKE being a living caricature of the aging snobby elitist musician?

At least the review above notes that "banality and tritness" are inherant to rock music, and then goes on to accept these qualities, and reviews the record as positively as possible in SPITE of these qualities.: "So there we have the Bee Gees: banal, graceless, trite, let us add melodramatic. And let us also add that this is all in one of rock's oldest and strongest traditions."

Its such bad vibes sh*tting on other's musical taste all the time. Yet its the aging musician's favorite pasttime. I just don't see the purpose! I'm making a conscious effort to never go there myself, to always put effort into appreciating, and to keep my mouth closed in those cases where my opinion is nothing but negative.
I think if you are trying desperately to hang on to your youth, you should ramp up your vitriol on any music that is commonly considered garbage, as that's what teens do more than anyone.

I believe The BeeGees and disco were notoriously hated by many many people regardless of age.

On the other hand, there probably were some old farts who put on disco suits trying to get with it.
Old 5th August 2014
  #39
Old 5th August 2014
  #40
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaredCA View Post
I agree. In fact, most of my favourite songs aren't the "hits" on the album. Normally a hit is really attractive since it's repetitive, predictable, instantly apparent of what it is. It feels like you already know the song, so you can get into it right away. The same thing that makes you instantly like it is why we get bored of it pretty quickly.

The non-hits take a few listens to get into...to truly understand what it is. Great non-hit songs are what makes albums for me.
.
This sums it up for me, as well. One of my favourite albums is Disintegration by The Cure. I rarely listen to a single song. Instead, the whole album. And it can't be shuffled. It MUST play in order.

I know that many agree; it's a great album.

Only 4 'hit songs', if you include Fascination Street. But it was the 'hit' songs that piqued my interest, and the depth, mood and texture of the others, as well as continuity, made the album an experience. I may skip Love Song or Pictures of You, because I've heard them too much, but it's the less popular ones that are like a drug to me.... even 26 years later.
Old 6th August 2014
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
I stopped buying greatest hits albums because I bought a Dylan record (to get a handful of the 'Basement tapes' which I already had most of from the famous Great White Wonder bootleg) that was just a jumble of periods and songs with no flow whatsoever. Maybe someone had some conception of why there were 4 sides of jumbled, incoherent non-flow from one tune to another, but I found the album completely unlistenable. (And, of course, on vinyl, you are stuck with that flow unless you want to keep jumping up and down and putting ticks and scratches in your vinyl with extra mid-side needle drops.)

What might strike some casual listeners as 'filler' can often be music designed or selected specifically to transition from one song or set of songs to another.

No doubt there are those who will buy the first (crushingly over-familiar) movement of Beethoven's Fifth Symphony to get the 'hit' -- and I know they won't get my concerns here -- but it seems to me that's like being satisfied with a torrid makeout session and going home to have to take a cold shower.


That said, of course, a lot pop and rock albums are simply a jumble of tracks, anyhow, unrelated except by chronology and provenance. I can see plucking some perceived jewell from the muck in such cases, to be sure.

But some assembled works really do work together. Sometimes they are written of a piece and more often arranged and produced to fit together. There are some great albums that have a lot of killer tracks that then become even greater in synergism born of thoughtful juxtaposition.
'Hits' usually relates to pop music, and not many pop albums are conceptual.
For me Plan B's - "The Defamation of Strickland Banks" was great because it was a pop album with big hits that had a concept storyline from start to finish with a flow. But that is very rare, and the main thing that made the album work were the hits.

Yes my personal favourite songs of popular albums generally tend not to be the 'hit' type of tracks, but if an album had "nothing but hits" as mentioned in the title it must be brilliant. I don't know any album that would be better with less hits.

A "Best Of" isn't necessarily going to flow as some of them are just in chronological order and little attention is put into the flow. But that is surely very obvious and if anyone is going to sit down and listen to a best of expecting a great album and not a collection of singles they are going to have a very surprising life.
Old 7th August 2014
  #42
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I agree to the extent that if every song is written as a shot at a #1, everything can wind up sounding the same and the whole thing winds up lacking depth or substance. To listen to an album all the way through, I prefer some dynamics, some softer and some quirky numbers that would have no place on the charts ("deeper cuts"). It really depends on the artist though, their musical vocabulary, and I guess their lyrical vocabulary as well.
Old 8th August 2014
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaredCA View Post
I agree. In fact, most of my favourite songs aren't the "hits" on the album. Normally a hit is really attractive since it's repetitive, predictable, instantly apparent of what it is. It feels like you already know the song, so you can get into it right away. The same thing that makes you instantly like it is why we get bored of it pretty quickly.

The non-hits take a few listens to get into...to truly understand what it is. Great non-hit songs are what makes albums for me.

Some of my favourite bands, I remember listening to for the first time and thinking they were terrible. Now, those are the bands where I'm still listening to their music 5 years later.
Yes, I absolutely agree. It's like you're speaking my mind. I have always thought this. I almost always like every other song on an album and don't care for the "hits" or singles.

I have been like this since I was a little kid, probably 7 years old, before I would even know better. I would listen to full albums on cassette tapes and I would formulate my own opinions of what I thought were the best songs on the album.

I keep reading all of these posts on here where people say that most of the effort is put into the few singles and everything else is filler. I absolutely disagree and I am even talking about albums made in the 90s and 2000s.

To me, it usual sounds like the singles are cheap and easy filler designed to grab the general public's attention to draw them into listening to the rest of the album. They actually do not grab my attention, like the other songs do, which is the opposite of what most people say.
Old 8th August 2014
  #44
As someone who really likes good album cuts and likes cohesive albums as a whole , the real problem is lack of quality songwriting. Part of the big reason for the decline of the album is you weren't getting any value from the album, the only good songs were the hits. While there are some exceptions it's really become the norm more so I think than ever before. And basically there are no albums full of hits. I remember back in the 80's Hall & Oates had album cuts that became hits for other artists.
Old 8th August 2014
  #45
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Not sure that I subscribe to your OP train of thought. As a songwriter wouldn't everyone love to have an album full of hits. In my mind that equates to what every songwriter strives for, reaching your audience. You're audience determines what the hits are or not IMHO, even though I know that the record companies can push a song that is **** hard enough to where people will eventually start liking it. I like to use the analogy that if you were fed **** long enough and was continually being told it was steak, after a while it will start to taste like steak. Anyway an album full of hits to me is the ultimate success story for a songwriter. I don't ever set out to write what I would call a "hit". I just write what comes to me, kind of like I'm the conduit for the process.
Old 8th August 2014
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Musiclab View Post
As someone who really likes good album cuts and likes cohesive albums as a whole , the real problem is lack of quality songwriting. Part of the big reason for the decline of the album is you weren't getting any value from the album, the only good songs were the hits. While there are some exceptions it's really become the norm more so I think than ever before. And basically there are no albums full of hits. I remember back in the 80's Hall & Oates had album cuts that became hits for other artists.
Your statement is completely contradicting with my opinion that I wrote in the post directly before yours.

I generally feel that album singles are the worst songs on an album and the other songs are better. I would say over 90% of the time. Since I was a little kid through today.
Old 8th August 2014
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockinrob View Post
I know that the record companies can push a song that is **** hard enough to where people will eventually start liking it.
This probably happens a lot more than you think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockinrob View Post
I like to use the analogy that if you were fed **** long enough and was continually being told it was steak, after a while it will start to taste like steak. Anyway an album full of hits to me is the ultimate success story for a songwriter.
Right.. Essentially an album full of hits could equal an album full of sh%t...
Old 8th August 2014
  #48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benprogfuse View Post
Your statement is completely contradicting with my opinion that I wrote in the post directly before yours.

I generally feel that album singles are the worst songs on an album and the other songs are better. I would say over 90% of the time. Since I was a little kid through today.
I'm willing to bet that if you went through albums that have "hits" on them nowadays what you mainly find is the hits and a whole lot of filler. If albums were chock full of good songs and the "hits" were the weakest track on the album, album sales would be a helluva lot more than they are. I've mainly found it to be this way since at least the mid 90's with of course some exceptions. It's why we're back to a singles market. But for me, my favorite artist usually have great album cuts, and even the more pop artists like Hall and Oates had great album cuts, that is not the norm these days.
Old 8th August 2014
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Musiclab View Post
I'm willing to bet that if you went through albums that have "hits" on them nowadays what you mainly find is the hits and a whole lot of filler. If albums were chock full of good songs and the "hits" were the weakest track on the album, album sales would be a helluva lot more than they are. I've mainly found it to be this way since at least the mid 90's with of course some exceptions. It's why we're back to a singles market. But for me, my favorite artist usually have great album cuts, and even the more pop artists like Hall and Oates had great album cuts, that is not the norm these days.
It's all subjective and I do disagree personally. The general public likes songs because they are played repetitively. It has little to do with how great they are.

People are nostalgic with songs because those songs are playing over and over during certain parts of their lives and during certain experiences. When they hear a certain song, it recalls those memories or feelings, almost like a scent or smell.

When you play a track from an album they had of a song that they didn't really listen to and weren't familiar with, it does not stir up the nostalgic feelings that the radio songs do, in most cases.
Old 9th August 2014
  #50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benprogfuse View Post
It's all subjective and I do disagree personally. The general public likes songs because they are played repetitively. It has little to do with how great they are.

People are nostalgic with songs because those songs are playing over and over during certain parts of their lives and during certain experiences. When they hear a certain song, it recalls those memories or feelings, almost like a scent or smell.

When you play a track from an album they had of a song that they didn't really listen to and weren't familiar with, it does not stir up the nostalgic feelings that the radio songs do, in most cases.
I think your not understanding me, I'm a big fan of quality album cuts, what I'm saying is the most modern records don't have them.
Old 11th August 2014
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Musiclab View Post
I think your not understanding me, I'm a big fan of quality album cuts, what I'm saying is the most modern records don't have them.
I understand what you're trying to convey and I disagree. Even with newer albums, I tend to like the "Filler" songs better than the radio singles.
Old 11th August 2014
  #52
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for example, I just went through my ipod and quickly grabbed a random sampling of albums that I will list and I will list my favorite tracks from each.

With these examples, these are the tracks that I absolutely think are the best on each album according to my own opinion.

for example: Guns N Roses appetite for destruction, this album came out in 1987 when I was 6 years old. I've been listening to this album since I was 6 or 7 and at 6 or 7, my favorite tracks and the ones that I would listen to over and over were "It's So Easy" and "My Michelle", because in my opinion at that time, those were the best tracks on that album. I remember being in 2nd grade and My Michelle playing through my head all day. I also remember being annoyed by Paradice City and thinking that it sounded kind of cheesy.. when I was 7 years old..

So here is a randomly list from my ipod that I just grabbed:

Audioslave: Audioslave
Shadow of the Sun
Bring Em Back Alive
Getaway Car

Beattles : White Album
Glass Onion
Happiness is a Warm Gun
Savoy Truffle

Black Keys: Attack and Release
Lies
So He Won't Break
Oceans and Streams
Things ain't like they used to be

Canldebox : Candlebox
No Sense
Arrow
Rain

Depechemode: Violator
World in My Eyes
Halo
Policy of Truth

Dream Theater: All Albums
"Every Song that hasn't been
a single"

Guns N' Roses: Appetite for Destruction
It's so Easy
My Michelle

Incubus: Light Grenades
Pendulous Threads
Rouges

King's of Leon: Come around Sundown
The Immortals
The End

Mad Season: Mad Season
Artificial Red
Wakeup
Lifeless Dead

Maroon 5: Songs about Jane
Secret
Through With You
Sweetest Goodbye

Metallica : Load
Bleeding Me
Thorn Within

Muse: 2nd Law
Supremacy
Panic Station

Nirvana: In Utero
Very Ape
Serve the Servants

Pantera: All Albums
"Don't care for any of the radio songs
except This Love."

QOSTA: Songs For The Deff
First it Giveth
Songs for the Dead
The Sky is Fallin
Hangin' Tree
Song for the Deaf

Red Hot Chili Peppers: BSSM
Funky Monks
Mellowship Slinky in B Minor

Soundgarden: King Animal
Bones of Birds
Taree
Worse Dreams
Eyelids Mouth

STP: No2
Lounge Fly
Silvergun Superman
Meatplow

The Toadies: The Toadis
Backslider
I Burn
When I'm Away
Tyler

Tool : Aenima
Jimmy
H.
Forty-Six & Two

White Zombie: Astro-Creep 2000
Blur the Technicolor
I, Zombie
Old 11th August 2014
  #53
disagree all you like that's what makes the world go round.
Old 11th August 2014
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Musiclab View Post
disagree all you like that's what makes the world go round.
I'm just stating my own opinion. Not anybody elses.


oh.. and my dog is way cooler than yours..... I'm kidding..heh
Old 17th August 2014
  #55
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FraternalHouse's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benprogfuse View Post
Wondering what people's thoughts are on this and would like to have a discussion.


Just I thought that I had while having a conversation with myself on the way to work..

A "hit" on an album equals an "explosion" in a movie....
The Music Biz has always been about and will continue to be about making money...And yes Violence, Pain and Suffering are always in vogue in Hollywood Movies...
Old 19th August 2014
  #56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benprogfuse View Post
I'm just stating my own opinion. Not anybody elses.


oh.. and my dog is way cooler than yours..... I'm kidding..heh
NO DOG IS COOLER THAN A KEESHOND!
Old 21st August 2014
  #57
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IMO, the really bad fillers came with the CD format, and the trend of moving from 8-12 songs on a LP to 13-15 or more, sometimes much more, on CD. At first just re-released albums with some "bonus" songs (that were always crap) to make everyone purchase the same album again. That made it hard for future releases to not offer the same amount of songs.

That's what killed the album for me.
Old 21st August 2014
  #58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Leaf View Post
IMO, the really bad fillers came with the CD format, and the trend of moving from 8-12 songs on a LP to 13-15 or more, sometimes much more, on CD. At first just re-released albums with some "bonus" songs (that were always crap) to make everyone purchase the same album again. That made it hard for future releases to not offer the same amount of songs.

That's what killed the album for me.
IF there were 15 really good songs on the cd I think somehow you'd be fine with the amount of songs
Old 21st August 2014
  #59
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"Album" is a nostalgic concept rarely experienced these days. Your audience either will or will not add one or more of your individual tracks to one or more of their playlists.

It's not that Batman COULDN'T kick Superman's ass. It's that they don't exist.
Old 22nd August 2014
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aint Nobody View Post
"Album" is a nostalgic concept rarely experienced these days. Your audience either will or will not add one or more of your individual tracks to one or more of their playlists.

It's not that Batman COULDN'T kick Superman's ass. It's that they don't exist.
It's funny.. I honestly just assumed that everyone else listened to the whole album of every artist that they listened to, until 2 years ago when this 21 year old girl was sitting next to me at work. she was playing with my phone and asking me what music I listened to etc then showing me her itunes and I noticed that she only had 1 or 2 songs from each artist and was listening to everything in a playlist. I told her that I didn't do playlists and that I listen to everything one album at a time and she was astonished and told me that the idea of doing that had never occured to her.

Then I was astonished...
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