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You can't just be a songwriter Dynamics Processors (HW)
Old 18th August 2014
  #61
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by brockorama View Post
Hmmm...interesting newguy1 and pleonastic

At what point in the process would you actually copyright something? Some people seem to be looking for this as proof with a submission--is this not the case normally, then?

Would you pitch to publishers you don't know, without a true copyright?
A true copyright is something that occurs as soon as you create it.

Paying to have a registered copyright definitely gives you more substantial evidence, however, it still doesn't guarantee anything.

I wouldn't pay to get the certificate, already have copyright, create a spreadsheet, have the public release on my own and other sites, not a lot of reason to. I'm trying to avoid going to court at all costs, if someone steals my **** i'll get mine in other ways.

From my Countries copyright board.

A poem, painting, musical score, performer's performance and a computer program are all valuable creations worth protecting.

Although copyright in a work exists automatically when an original work is created, a certificate of registration is evidence that your creation is protected by copyright and that you, the person registered, are the owner. It can be used in court as evidence of ownership.


Of course i would pitch to a Publisher without a paid certificate. I doubt any even reasonably legitimate Publisher is going to blatantly steal something and then go and create it so they can use it. I know i sure wouldn't.

What i deal with is not the norm and not something people should be strapping the tinfoil hat on for.
Old 18th August 2014
  #62
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
the moment you make something it is immediately copy-written
Quote:
A true copyright is something that occurs as soon as you create it.
That's my understanding as well. In my work, creating architectural-type designs on drawings, the designs are immediately protected without ever submitting to the copyright office which, to my knowledge, nobody in my profession ever does. When drawings are shared, the date that is done is documented by one's self and the recipients in the normal course of doing business. It's my belief now that, if we post a song demo in this forum, it's like putting an easily verifiable date stamp on our work.

In the US, an on-line copyright submission is $35 and one can submit more than one song with that - like a copyright song dump. One can also submit a work, get it copyrighted and then resubmit for another $35, revising the previous submission. But if your writing a lot of songs, that process could be expensive.
Old 19th August 2014
  #63
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brockorama's Avatar
 

Thank you for the information.
Old 1st September 2014
  #64
Obviously yes. Even a great singer can't just sing - if they can't write they need to find a songwriter to connect with. Motown is a great example of how this process worked.
Old 3rd September 2014
  #65
Gear Addict
 
ludwigvanlee's Avatar
A lot of great opinions on here on a really great subject! I just want to throw one thing out there that might not've been discussed... A producer's ear.. A producer can hear a bare bones accompaniment with melody and create accompaniment in his head..if you're a producer.. you know what I mean..

producers can (or at least should) often make songs in their head from start to finish.. How? Cause they have done it a hundred times already and they got a good ear.

I remember on NPR they were interviewing madonna's brother in law about a song he sold to madonna. he talked about he produced and sang on it, how madonna approached him about the song... it was a good story. and when they played the song.. it sounded NOTHING like the dance tune it came out to be (it was originally like Latin.. more like Shakira).. I think that speaks to the true talent of the producers to take on person's vision and create another one..

Either way I think is good.. but I think a good producer can smell a good song a mile away with just the emotion and the flow of a song.. (good song doesn't equate hit song also... ) and also lets not forget that a fully produced song will sometimes be reproduced by another producer..ala One Republic's Apologize
Old 16th October 2014
  #66
As someone who's pitching songs to publishers at the moment, the challenge I've found is that production IS a vital aspect.
And this aspect can hamper your progress greatly. The song may be great, but if the production style is wrong, you won't get a look in.

The other issue is that whilst you might have a great song, labels/publishers have got to have 110% faith in your hit song to take the risk on it. The margins just on their any more.

So, I agree with the topic title - you can't just be a "song"-writer any more. Whether it's you or your using of pre-produced backing material etc, you need to produce a more polished/finished item.

Otherwise, the Industry may not take the risk on you.

PS if you know of any publishers looking for 80s/90s pop disco material - let me know :D
Old 23rd October 2014
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murray View Post
True?

I was reading something somewhere, and someone was going on about how "the biz" will not accept anything that isn't fully realized.

This obviously isn't really news, but I got to wondering if anyone is just a songwriter.

Even someone like Diane Warren, who is not my personal cup of tea, but even someone like her would not get anywhere now if she didn't hook up with a production team, or become excellent herself at producing and arranging and mixing.
I don't really think this is true especially in Country music nowadays. There are many "just songwriters" in Nashville that are writing many of the hit country songs right now. I don't personally subscribe to that. I prefer artists who write and record their own songs. I have much more respect for them.
Old 23rd October 2014
  #68
[QUOTE=
PS if you know of any publishers looking for 80s/90s pop disco material - let me know :D[/QUOTE]

Hey Scooby,

Im not a publisher, but id love to hear your material as Im a producer/songwriter with very similar styles (: Do you any links to your work? Feel free to PM if you want! Thanks!
Old 23rd October 2014
  #69
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Herr Weiss's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ludwigvanlee View Post
A producer's ear.. A producer can hear a bare bones accompaniment with melody and create accompaniment in his head..if you're a producer.. you know what I mean..

producers can (or at least should) often make songs in their head from start to finish.. How? Cause they have done it a hundred times already and they got a good ear.

A composer (songwriter) should know the art of arranging and orchestration.



HW
Old 23rd October 2014
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herr Weiss View Post
A composer (songwriter) should know the art of arranging and orchestration.



HW
Don't think that's true, especially in pop music.

Even if a songwriter arranges their own basic parts, a producer along with engineers still have the task of turning it into a finished record, which I think was my point with this thread. The finished sounding record is as important as the song.

I suppose producers might be the last bastion who would be most interested in songs that are not yet produced.
Old 23rd October 2014
  #71
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Herr Weiss's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Murray View Post
Don't think that's true, especially in pop music.

Even if a songwriter arranges their own basic parts, a producer along with engineers still have the task of turning it into a finished record, which I think was my point with this thread. The finished sounding record is as important as the song.

I suppose producers might be the last bastion who would be most interested in songs that are not yet produced.

Well, not with my song(s). I would need an engineer but that's it.

I know 'how' the final product should sound like, after all, I wrote it.


HW
Old 23rd October 2014
  #72
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo555 View Post
The song may be great, but if the production style is wrong, you won't get a look in.
Exactly. It's sort of a rock and a hard place.

If you don't produce up the song professionally, that could be a strike against you. It would have to be one hell of a song for people to hear it without it being laid out for them.

On the other hand, you produce up the song, but the production is weak, amateurish, or dated, you now have probably done even more of a disservice to the song. Plus, you probably spent a lot of time and/or money. Only to either dump the song or spend even more time and money to re-produce it.
Old 23rd October 2014
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herr Weiss View Post
Well, not with my song(s). I would need an engineer but that's it.

I know 'how' the final product should sound like, after all, I wrote it.


HW
Sure, but I think many/most songwriters/artists generally want or need a producer.

The thing that is common now, or so it seems, is for songwriters/artists to engineer as well. Create the whole thing from start to finish.
Old 23rd October 2014
  #74
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Herr Weiss's Avatar
 

O.K., you win!!

If I could get Sir George Henry Martin to give me a hand, I promise to, not say no. hehheh


HW
Old 23rd October 2014
  #75
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Herr Weiss's Avatar
 

I know my limitations.

Don't know audio engineering to save my life.



HW

Last edited by Herr Weiss; 23rd October 2014 at 11:56 PM.. Reason: Correction
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