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Why Do People Hate Rock Music? Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 13th March 2014
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
I started getting really bored by mainstream rock in the 70s. I found solace in the outsider prog bands. I didn't have any use at all for stuff like Emerson, Lake, and Palmer after a while, but I really liked some of the lesser known outfits like Family, Can, Faust, Magma, and so on. I also was intrigued by the back-to-honest-rock of pub-rock and proto-punk. But when I first heard Patti Smith in '75, I knew the musically exciting time I'd been waiting for through the first half of the 70s was finally coming to pass.
I can't even imagine how a musician would go from digging Family, Can, Faust and Magma to hearing Horses and thinking, "Yeah! That's the ****!"

But then again I love Emerson, Lake and Palmer.
Old 13th March 2014
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HSA7 View Post
Why does our current culture find it necessary to hate rock in order to promote the current dominant genres. That was never necessary until recently. It is patent. I love Bruno so I must hate Nirvana. No musical basis for this. It's malicious, punitive.
That's a great point. I'd rather see an all-inclusive, extremely diverse menu instead of a divisive one, where a supposedly "antithetical" genre, style or approach is rejected in favor of another.

I really think there is a certain crowd who are decidedly anti-rock, and they hurl accusations of "rockist agendas" at those who dare to love rock and crave it's resurgence as a viable musical art form.
Old 13th March 2014
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
Oh, we can erect all sorts of criteria, of course -- that can be a bottomless endeavor.

And we can attempt to find ways of correlating those criteria with relative appreciation among different cohorts -- but ultimately, our criteria tend to be somewhat arbitrary because of wide variations in subjective appreciation.

For instance: one would-be critic loves mechanistic precision, another fluid rubato... which is 'right'?
In the area of formal logic, I will not contest that. The definition of "right" is far too jagged (and rigged) in such an artistic context.

But outside of that arena, I just want to develop my own applicable hybrid of objective description with subjective impression.

Please don't rob me of my obsubjectivism. heh
Old 13th March 2014
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
Now that auto-tune is finally receding from the pop shores, I plan on doing some serious catching up.
Knock on marimba cowbell thingy.
Old 13th March 2014
  #95
As I may well have mentioned before elsewhere in this forum, in the early 90s, me and some pals formed the Non-Rock Alliance. I was doing ambient electronica (deeply influenced by Fripp/Eno) and my pals were doing dream pop (think Cocteaus). We didn't actually do anything except put out some flyers to annoy our punk/post punk pals: "Rock is dead. Join the NRA."

(Non-Rock Alliance, see... uh... never mind.)
Old 13th March 2014
  #96
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldon2975 View Post
In the area of formal logic, I will not contest that. The definition of "right" is far too jagged (and rigged) in such an artistic context.

But outside of that arena, I just want to develop my own applicable hybrid of objective description with subjective impression.

Please don't rob me of my obsubjectivism. heh
Just don't stand in the doorway or block up that hall -- we wouldn't want obsubjectivism to devolve into simple obstructionism. heh
Old 17th March 2014
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
As I may well have mentioned before elsewhere in this forum, in the early 90s, me and some pals formed the Non-Rock Alliance. I was doing ambient electronica (deeply influenced by Fripp/Eno) and my pals were doing dream pop (think Cocteaus). We didn't actually do anything except put out some flyers to annoy our punk/post punk pals: "Rock is dead. Join the NRA."

(Non-Rock Alliance, see... uh... never mind.)
Some sounds like this?
Old 17th March 2014
  #98
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Benprogfuse's Avatar
I'm surprised the OP didn't follow his statement with a YouTube link to his song..



Oh... and...

Old 20th March 2014
  #99
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+10 for "Them Crooked Vultures"
Old 25th March 2014
  #100
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I've been making a lot of analysis on this lately and I've literally listened to hundreds of new bands that people suggest as rock bands that are "still rocking, you just have to look".
But if you look at all the big rock bands of the past 30-40 years, they all have a combination of 3 things. They are mostly all 1) Fairly pop 2) Simple and 3) Fun.

Def Leppard, while a "heavy metal" band, almost all their hooks are pop hooks, they are definitely simple, and almost all of their songs are fun.

Foo Fighters, same thing.

Beatles, same thing.

Led Zeppelin, not as "pop" as the others, but still fun and have great catchy melodies.

Van Halen, not always as simple, but definitely pop and fun.

Nirvana, pop melodies, simple for sure, and sometimes a little angry, but to me still creates more of a fun feeling instead of angry.

etc. etc. etc. But main thing is they all share at least 2 of these things.

New Radio Rock bands though do not have these I don't feel.

Bands like Five Finger Death Punch, Volbeat, etc are not nearly as pop in their melodies, sometimes they are simple, but not always, and a lot of the time their songs create moshpit type music instead of fun music.

The alternative/indie rock bands have arduously boring and predictable melodies without being pop, simple yes, but not really fun.

There are some great bands out there like Winery Dogs, Them Crooked Vultures, and Queens of the Stone Age, but these bands are more musician oriented rock bands. They may have some of the cool atmosphere of the big classic rock bands, but that's just it. They sound like classic rock bands. Also, their hooks are not big and catchy.

Punk bands are definitely fun and simple, but the antithesis of pop. Which is why Nirvana got to be as big as they did to me at least. They had the fun and simpleness of punk, but big pop hooks.

So I think that maybe it is not as much of the listeners falling out of love with rock, but more so the lack of listener friendly rock.

Bruno Mars and Maroon 5 are the two rockingest of the pop artists, and they're all pop, simple, and fun. They just lack some of the grit to be played on rock radio as well as pop radio.

...but what do I know?
Old 25th March 2014
  #101
all these posts on a basic premise that's not true. maybe a clue as to a problem but I don't otherwise see one that's any different than it's ever been.
Old 25th March 2014
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KyleAbbott View Post
They are mostly all 1) Fairly pop 2) Simple and 3) Fun.
Kyle - the "fun" aspect was something I was reading as I read the thread. I'm a child of the 80s and back then the rock music seemed to me to be fun. At some point after that it seems like it became more serious and even angry. Some younger friends challenged me on how hollow much of the 80s rock music was, and my reply was that it used to be "fun". They looked at me kindof like serious rock music wasn't supposed to be fun.

But then again - I listened to alot of the bands they liked and very little of it would connect with me. Honestly to the point that I would question their taste in music in my efforts to understand the appeal. If I found a modern band that I liked (Gaslight Anthem comes to mind, or an unsigned band that I thought was excellent named Ghotti) they usually didn't think much of it - or they'd just shrug and say it sounds samey.

In the end I just give up on understanding it, and accept my ears hear differently.
Old 25th March 2014
  #103
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Saying "Rock" on covers a lot of ground.

People don't hate "Rock" in fact most of country music is recycled "Rock" nowadays and it has a growing following. Though I sure do miss what I always considered to be real country music. I know that what is real and not just exists in my head but I can't help myself.

Imagine your analogue in 1958 writing to his local Newspaper - The Podunk Gazette -

'Why do people just hate bluegrass and the wonderful sounds of Perry Como and Mel Torme. All my friends listen is that shameful and sidious rock and roll... Elvis and the like, just a bunch of whootin' and hollering noise if you ask me'

Popular culture is about fads and fashions... thing go in and out of style all the time. They may look silly when we don't agree with the premise, doesn't change the ebb and flow. Men used to wear tights, then they wore slacks and now they wear skinny jeans (even the fat guys) what is worse that skinny jeans on a skinny guy or a fat guy though... LeBron in neon pink skinny jeans. Meh...
Old 25th March 2014
  #104
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Carnalia Barcus's Avatar
 

KyleAbbott, I'm just curious what you'd have in mind as an example of something not simple.
Old 25th March 2014
  #105
GV1
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I've yet to meet anyone that can flat out say they hate all genres of Rock. Some big electric bass over a Power Ballard. Omg ... sex right there!
Old 25th March 2014
  #106
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There are many people passionate about rock music in this thread.

How about a new thread highlighting good examples of 21st century rock songwriting ?
Old 25th March 2014
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KyleAbbott View Post
I've been making a lot of analysis on this lately and I've literally listened to hundreds of new bands that people suggest as rock bands that are "still rocking, you just have to look".
But if you look at all the big rock bands of the past 30-40 years, they all have a combination of 3 things. They are mostly all 1) Fairly pop 2) Simple and 3) Fun.

Def Leppard, while a "heavy metal" band, almost all their hooks are pop hooks, they are definitely simple, and almost all of their songs are fun.

Foo Fighters, same thing.

Beatles, same thing.

Led Zeppelin, not as "pop" as the others, but still fun and have great catchy melodies.

Van Halen, not always as simple, but definitely pop and fun.

Nirvana, pop melodies, simple for sure, and sometimes a little angry, but to me still creates more of a fun feeling instead of angry.

etc. etc. etc. But main thing is they all share at least 2 of these things.

New Radio Rock bands though do not have these I don't feel.

Bands like Five Finger Death Punch, Volbeat, etc are not nearly as pop in their melodies, sometimes they are simple, but not always, and a lot of the time their songs create moshpit type music instead of fun music.

The alternative/indie rock bands have arduously boring and predictable melodies without being pop, simple yes, but not really fun.

There are some great bands out there like Winery Dogs, Them Crooked Vultures, and Queens of the Stone Age, but these bands are more musician oriented rock bands. They may have some of the cool atmosphere of the big classic rock bands, but that's just it. They sound like classic rock bands. Also, their hooks are not big and catchy.

Punk bands are definitely fun and simple, but the antithesis of pop. Which is why Nirvana got to be as big as they did to me at least. They had the fun and simpleness of punk, but big pop hooks.

So I think that maybe it is not as much of the listeners falling out of love with rock, but more so the lack of listener friendly rock.

Bruno Mars and Maroon 5 are the two rockingest of the pop artists, and they're all pop, simple, and fun. They just lack some of the grit to be played on rock radio as well as pop radio.

...but what do I know?
3 questions :

1) Can a rock artist deliver a song mainly focused on melody without being considered Pop, Simple & Fun ?

2) Can the song with such a melodic focus be in a Major key and not be considered Pop, Simple & Fun ?

3) Are the rock bands you prefer mainly of a dark, brooding, morbid, loud, aggressively angry aesthetic ?
Old 26th March 2014
  #108
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I think the case with Rock is the same case with other genres.
People will write things off before they give them an honest chance.
I like rock, I think it's great music.
And the only reason I know this is because at a young age I didn't turn
away from it .
The same way I wasn't turned away from Hip Hop or Jazz.
Old 29th March 2014
  #109
Gear Head
 

Originally Posted by Frank_Case
The Generationals:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w45SZvEKMME
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FUD8oHSjiE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2-4PTjB7Do

St. Vincent and Annie Clark:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jv4lgFrL7U

69 Chambers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfGoYnsCFus


It's not your Daddy's rock.
------------------------------------------------


69 Chambers seems to be getting there, but not quite yet. The others were boring.
Old 30th March 2014
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eldon2975 View Post
Frank ? Thanks for those tunes, but they did zero for me personally. I really hope others are getting what they need out of those bands and songs.

For me, and a certain % of old schoolers, it takes stuff more like this to satisfy the hunger for rock songwriting.

More Than A Feeling , Boston , 1976 Vinyl 45RPM - YouTube


Rush - Spirit Of Radio (Vinyl) - YouTube


Ahh, much better now ! heh
Whow!...2 Songs that brings back some memories from back in the days! I remember these songs as a young kid at the hockey rink on any given Sunday playing. It was good music and still is today along with very hard to find vinyl records. This was a time where technology really didn't exist and people had Soul and Passion in music. I can't see anyone hating on these songs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by eldon2975 View Post
Van Halen - Hot for Teacher (Vinyl) - YouTube


Oh, the unmitigated vitality of it. The POWAH !
This is more of my generation when I was in Grade 6 and I remember a friend playing some of his vinyl (even though we were more in to urban music but love all genres regardless) he pulled out his his Van Halen record which inspired me to take Guitar Lesson later learning Classical as well. What a throwback!... Alan Van Halen's drum playing with his kicks alone shows that his timing was on point oppose to the Drum machines that most use today in current Pop music. Rock did lay the path for all forms of genres at it's highest peek in the mid 80's.!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
I think I mentioned in earlier threads that it's my position that while there is certainly no shortage of what strikes me as dumb music at the top of the charts today, it's been my longtime observation that, while the percentage varies, there's never really been what I'd consider a serious shortage, ever.


Mind you, I like some dumb music myself, without a doubt.

Now that auto-tune is finally receding from the pop shores, I plan on doing some serious catching up.
Your right Blue! Music has turned Dumb lacking the substance and value for it's lyrical quality. Rock was the forefront of music in the 80's for more genres as I mentioned before. Times have changed so much..
Old 1st April 2014
  #111
Gear Head
 

Finding good new rock is hard these days, but it's out there. Australia has a fantastic rock scene right now! Karnivool, Mammal, Twelve Foot Ninja, Dead Letter Circus are all great bands with fantastic musicians. Is it the same as rock from "the good old days"? Of course not, but why would we want more of the same! Instead they are taking rock to new places, which is what needs to happen if rock is going to progress.
Old 1st April 2014
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnalia Barcus View Post
I can't even imagine how a musician would go from digging Family, Can, Faust and Magma to hearing Horses and thinking, "Yeah! That's the ****!"

But then again I love Emerson, Lake and Palmer.
You are the man!

LONG LIVE ELP!

And I grew up on Beatles, go figure!
Old 2nd April 2014
  #113
Gear Head
 

Hey Guys

I saw your post and I would just like to show you some new rock stuff I have recently recorded which is due to be released soon as an album in the UK, would love to get some feedback off you guys. It is more alternative rock with influences from post-punk so maybe not strictly what you guys are looking for, thought I would share anyway. We've had a pretty good reaction online and radio play so would like to know any thoughts etc.

Stuff can be found here

Cut Out Shapes

Cheers

Chris
Old 2nd April 2014
  #114
I love rock music, but then again, it's the kind of music I play, write and was raised on...
Old 2nd April 2014
  #115
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by shapey View Post
Hey Guys

I saw your post and I would just like to show you some new rock stuff I have recently recorded which is due to be released soon as an album in the UK, would love to get some feedback off you guys. It is more alternative rock with influences from post-punk so maybe not strictly what you guys are looking for, thought I would share anyway. We've had a pretty good reaction online and radio play so would like to know any thoughts etc.

Stuff can be found here

Cut Out Shapes

Cheers

Chris
I took a listen to "When the River Runs Dry". A couple of things stuck out. The vocal had too much reverb and didn't really fit in the mix. In my opinion, the mood of the song was such that a "bigger" drum sound would have fit much better.

The song was just a little too clean, lacking in variation and/or sophistication to generate continued interest. The musicianship was competent, but not good enough to save it.

I'm not trying to dog you here, just giving honest feedback.

Keep working on it!
Old 2nd April 2014
  #116
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CANTE View Post
I took a listen to "When the River Runs Dry". A couple of things stuck out. The vocal had too much reverb and didn't really fit in the mix. In my opinion, the mood of the song was such that a "bigger" drum sound would have fit much better.

The song was just a little too clean, lacking in variation and/or sophistication to generate continued interest. The musicianship was competent, but not good enough to save it.

I'm not trying to dog you here, just giving honest feedback.

Keep working on it!
We've just had a national radio play of this song in UK so were pretty chuffed with that, thanks for your feedback
Old 25th August 2014
  #117
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Benprogfuse's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldon2975 View Post
3 questions :

1) Can a rock artist deliver a song mainly focused on melody without being considered Pop, Simple & Fun ?

2) Can the song with such a melodic focus be in a Major key and not be considered Pop, Simple & Fun ?

3) Are the rock bands you prefer mainly of a dark, brooding, morbid, loud, aggressively angry aesthetic ?
1) Of Course.

2) For the most part no.

3) Yes
Old 25th August 2014
  #118
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Muser's Avatar
Rock has largely been appropriated into a vapid lifestyle nostalgia identity trip.
not in whole, but mostly. happens to most things sooner or later.
I guess new ground needs breaking.
Old 25th August 2014
  #119
Quote:
Originally Posted by creegstor View Post
I think he's right on the money...

hadn't seen that before, yeh that was awesome; he nailed it.
Old 25th August 2014
  #120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tor_Hershman View Post
Some sounds like this?
Sometimes-ish.

More like this, a live, improvised collab between me and another live echo looper who was on my local scene in the early 90s. We worked together on live, all-improv performances a number of times during the decade: 2.6.93 | Rothmeyer & Frippenstein
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