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Avicii's 'Wake Me Up' hits 200 million streams in Spotify. Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 3rd March 2014
  #211
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El-Burrito's Avatar
Avicii has very good manager who has "created" him. Behind many success stories are good managers.

Btw, this is what the money gets to you when you have a hit:
DJ Avicii Hollywood Residence

Not bad for a DJ :D
Old 3rd March 2014
  #212
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GJ999x's Avatar
Imagine the self-control of us gearslutz, knowing that with a couple of vengeance packs and a synleth1 anyone of us could be living there. But we're got the character not to sell our souls, we're better than that, we're comfortable.... right here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by El-Burrito View Post
Avicii has very good manager who has "created" him. Behind many success stories are good managers.

Btw, this is what the money gets to you when you have a hit:
DJ Avicii Hollywood Residence

Not bad for a DJ :D
Old 3rd March 2014
  #213
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stclair's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GJ999x View Post
Imagine the self-control of us gearslutz, knowing that with a couple of vengeance packs and a synleth1 anyone of us could be living there. But we're got the character not to sell our souls, we're better than that, we're comfortable.... right here.
touché!
Old 3rd March 2014
  #214
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Herr Weiss's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by eldon2975 View Post
I was really actually trying to salute his previously stated ethical stipulation as something totally desirable, even though it may have been naive.

THAT was a mistake, of course.

Quite sure is something lost in translation, after all, his major in college was FRENCH, his native language btw.

Anyways, don't lose any sleep 'cause of it. heh


HW
Old 3rd March 2014
  #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creegstor View Post
Yep.

If I'm not mistaken, new guy1 is the very person who said that writers in Luke's general team get to ascend to the inner circle of writers, not when they have proven they write at an incredible level, but when they have had some "hits". i.e. the metric is financial success which says all that needs to be said about the prime motivation of these folks. There's nothing wrong with that per se but lets not kid ourselves here acting out some bs PC charade. There's a reason hip-hoppers call it "the game" and it's nothing whatsoever to do with music. The same applies to these pop-poppers.


Well written & to the point!!


HW
Old 3rd March 2014
  #216
Quote:
Originally Posted by GJ999x View Post
Imagine the self-control of us gearslutz, knowing that with a couple of vengeance packs and a synleth1 anyone of us could be living there. But we're got the character not to sell our souls, we're better than that, we're comfortable.... right here.
Without the luxury of contact networks and promotion managers. Good luck competing with all the other striving soundalike clones spamming "hey check out my songs" in youtube comments
Old 3rd March 2014
  #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creegstor View Post
Yep.

If I'm not mistaken, new guy1 is the very person who said that writers in Luke's general team get to ascend to the inner circle of writers, not when they have proven they write at an incredible level, but when they have had some "hits". i.e. the metric is financial success which says all that needs to be said about the prime motivation of these folks. There's nothing wrong with that per se but lets not kid ourselves here acting out some bs PC charade. There's a reason hip-hoppers call it "the game" and it's nothing whatsoever to do with music. The same applies to these pop-poppers.
This says nothing about internal motivations though. If you love the challenge of writing hits then you love the game and you love your work.
Old 3rd March 2014
  #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eldon2975 View Post
This is where you are wrong, and people are indeed allowed to speculate about motives, but you don't have to if you'd prefer not to. I and others are allowed to speculate on the motives behind the latest Justin Bieber release, the latest Lady Gaga release, the latest Dr. Luke project and the latest McDonalds commercial.

If "like" in this context means the Pavlovian response to consistently receiving huge monetary rewards for providing predictably vacuous product based more on marketing hype than substance, then the speculation about motives is more than justified. Especially if the given industry has effectively shut out (via monopolization) all alternative approaches.
One day you may take the red pill and see the light outside the dark world of "everything's a conspiracy". I've had this conversation too many times unsuccessfully to know you can't be reasoned with, you have to come to the realization of how the world actually works yourself. I could point out the real-world conditions, like how indie artists are outselling majors as of two years ago, or that distribution outlets have brought about access to more music by active musicians than ever, or that there are more alternate approaches to getting heard than ever before, or that the middle class in music is a big as ever, with more viable ways to at least survive off of music than ever, with the big record labels holding the least amount of power they ever have, but I already know that makes no difference to you. You'd rather play victim to an oppressive system.

So feel free to continue down the path of negatively and speculatively judging that which you'll never know, and putting everything that people say into some preset counter-position that you know how to argue, never actually addressing any of their points. . .
Old 3rd March 2014
  #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Case View Post
Northern US near the Canadian border. What do they play in your area on modern "rock" stations? I don't get your question.
I don't think there are any stations left in L.A. that play anything remotely like new metal or hard rock. There are a couple of classic rock stations, and then there's KROQ that plays some metal-ish stuff from the '90s, but the newer stuff they play seems like it's just the slightly more alt end of top 40 like Avicii, Bastille, Lumineers, etc.

I might be wrong though. Is there still an L.A. hard rock or metal station I'm forgetting?
Old 3rd March 2014
  #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by initialsBB View Post
I don't think there are any stations left in L.A. that play anything remotely like new metal or hard rock. There are a couple of classic rock stations, and then there's KROQ that plays some metal-ish stuff from the '90s, but the newer stuff they play seems like it's just the slightly more alt end of top 40 like Avicii, Bastille, Lumineers, etc.

I might be wrong though. Is there still an L.A. hard rock or metal station I'm forgetting?

LA still has KROQ but it was a big deal when they shut down in NY a few years ago.

When I visited home in the southeast over the holidays there was an FM station playing Ride the Lightning era Metallica next to Man in the Box by Alice in Chains. Big city America definitely doesn't have stations like these, but they're out there in the smaller markets.
Old 3rd March 2014
  #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
Big city America definitely doesn't have stations like these, but they're out there in the smaller markets.
I was assuming that if a hard rock or metal station couldn't survive in L.A. then that must mean that they died everywhere, but I guess it makes sense that there would still be a viable audience for it in places like maybe Michigan or Florida.
Old 3rd March 2014
  #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by initialsBB View Post
I was assuming that if a hard rock or metal station couldn't survive in L.A. then that must mean that they died everywhere, but I guess it makes sense that there would still be a viable audience for it in places like maybe Michigan or Florida.
Yeah there are remarkable differences between big city and "flyover" (no offense, most of my life and my family are all in flyover areas.) That's why my first advice for anyone wanting to make it in music is to move to LA. That way you can surround yourself with the future and where things are heading looking forward, where the smaller regions in the US still cater fairly strongly to the past.
Old 3rd March 2014
  #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
This says nothing about internal motivations though. If you love the challenge of writing hits then you love the game and you love your work.
It says everything about internal motivations. "If you love the challenge of writing hits" doesn't mean you love the challenge of creating great music. It means you love the challenge of creating something that appeals to a broad demographic. You love success and creating a translatable product. And that's fine. But music comes lower down the pecking order. I do believe it's part of why there's so little musicality in much of what passes for pop music "these days". But I don't think it has to be this way. Pop music would be an awful lot healthier if it wasn't.
Old 3rd March 2014
  #224
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by creegstor View Post
Yep.

If I'm not mistaken, new guy1 is the very person who said that writers in Luke's general team get to ascend to the inner circle of writers, not when they have proven they write at an incredible level, but when they have had some "hits". i.e. the metric is financial success which says all that needs to be said about the prime motivation of these folks. There's nothing wrong with that per se but lets not kid ourselves here acting out some bs PC charade. There's a reason hip-hoppers call it "the game" and it's nothing whatsoever to do with music. The same applies to these pop-poppers.
I don't get why people think that there must be a difference between "..write at an incredible level..." and "...have some hits...".

Music is subjective to some extend, but in order to discuss its qualities, we have to find some common ground.
Music touches/reaches people and gets emotions across in a way few other mediums do. If we say, "a good song is a song someone likes/a song that touches/reaches him or her...", then a hitsong must be pretty good song, because it does the job for a big audience.
Not many people can write songs like that consistently, so it must be difficult and requires a high level.

If we say, a good piece of music is a mix of avantgarde recorder staccato mixed with reverse Giraffe breathing - different discussion. It is probably not going to resonate with many people though.

Dr. Luke has also said at the ASCAP conference, that in order to consistently write/produce at a high level, doing it for the money does not work, you have to be in it for the music.

I am currently in my final months of my bachelor program, and I have often experienced that (aspiring) professional musicians seem to be out of touch with the general public taste. This seems strange to me...
Old 3rd March 2014
  #225
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Carnalia Barcus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by eldon2975 View Post
And your attitude is to get agitated and interventionist when someone dares to dislike something you happen to like.
Again, wtf are you talking about? I've mentioned a few things I like in passing here, but I don't recall talking about it much, anyone really commenting on it, or getting into any back and forth about it. What are you referring to?
Quote:
It's as if you want to grab them by the scruff of the neck, rub their nose in it (or put their ear against the speaker) while saying "you must accept and enjoy this as I do".
I'm starting to think that maybe you're just nuts. Maybe check the user names of the posts you're thinking about. Nothing there resembles me in any way.
Old 3rd March 2014
  #226
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Carnalia Barcus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by initialsBB View Post
I was assuming that if a hard rock or metal station couldn't survive in L.A. then that must mean that they died everywhere, but I guess it makes sense that there would still be a viable audience for it in places like maybe Michigan or Florida.
WSOU in the NYC area is primarily metal and hard rock . . . although it's a college station (Seton Hall University). They have a powerful signal though.
Old 3rd March 2014
  #227
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by creegstor View Post
It says everything about internal motivations. "If you love the challenge of writing hits" doesn't mean you love the challenge of creating great music. It means you love the challenge of creating something that appeals to a broad demographic. You love success and creating a translatable product. And that's fine. But music comes lower down the pecking order. I do believe it's part of why there's so little musicality in much of what passes for pop music "these days". But I don't think it has to be this way. Pop music would be an awful lot healthier if it wasn't.
How many EDM hitsongs started with (filtered) acoustic guitars + vocals for a full verse before Aviciis "wake me up"?
None?
And then continue with the same instrumentation + beat and still no synths in the next 8 bars (this is EDM, remember)?
None?
My point is, at the time "wake me up" was very innovative composition and sound wise. Avicii and his team took a big risk, considering they were at the verge of becoming a global act. They didn't play it safe just to maximize profit.
It payed off money wise though, so good for them.
Old 3rd March 2014
  #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creegstor View Post
It says everything about internal motivations. "If you love the challenge of writing hits" doesn't mean you love the challenge of creating great music. It means you love the challenge of creating something that appeals to a broad demographic.
Basically, the only way for you (and eldon2975) to hold to your position so resolutely is to assume the songwriters do not actually love the song itself that happens to "appeal to a broad demographic."

Is this your position?

The pop songwriter loves "the challenge of the demographic" but doesn't like his actual songs? This separation of concepts is such a contorted and convoluted psychology to overlay on the pop songwriter.

I know some pop songwriters and this assumption of their psychology makes no sense.

I ask one to play one of his original songs. I hear it's a "catchy a simple tune". I then ask him, "Well since that's a broadly appealing type of tune, I now want you to drop the pandering mode and switch to non-pandering mode"

<he gives a blank stare>

I ask him again, "you know, the NON-PANDERING MODE that the internet keeps telling me exists. Switch to that mode now. You'll get more respect that way. Don't hold back on me."

<he gives a blank stare>

Nada zilch. He has no "non-pandering mode". What you see(hear) is what you get. Those kinds of pop songs that people are complaining about is built into every part of their being. It's what they want to create.

But, since the internet critics are firmly entrenched in this idea of the panderer, we are at a stalemate. The critics insist he's pandering. The critics know for sure it's some kind of Jeckyll & Hyde split personality of the pop songwriter at play. It's just not possible for a human to truly love creating these pop songs and it must be the work of Mr. Hyde. The "real" musical works of Dr Jeckyll and his secret stash of "I Am the Walrus" derivatives are being suppressed.

Guys, if you don't know any up and coming pop songwriters personally, it would be educational to hang around them and see for yourself. You're making the flawed analysis of working backwards from the money and assuming these songs are made in some type of detached and calculated manner. You're not seeing these pop songs get made at the ground floor and they're products of real love of their art. (Yes, that doesn't prevent them from sound formulaic to our jaded and experienced ears but that's a totally separate issue from internal motivations).

Ok, I'll go back to the pop songwriter one last time for you guys. "Hey, now for fvck's sake and the love of all that's holy with art, give me your non-pandering mode!"

<Finally, the songwriter relents... he puts one hand under his armpit, flaps his elbow, and starts ripping out fart noises!>

Ah... yes yes... that's it! That's it! Very rhythmic. It's so eccentric! So out there and off the beaten path! And it's realistic too -- I can also smell the bowel disturbances! Ok, I'm satisfied now.

<The pop songwriter realizes he has to troll the person requesting the non-pandering mode to give him any peace.>

Hey... where's pop songwriter Chris Lago? Paging Chris Lago! Hey buddy, can you give us some of your non-pandering mode songs? All of gearslutz dudes are your dearest buddies aren't we? Let us in on your inner circle so we can be proven correct about this "pandering" theory.
Old 4th March 2014
  #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
One day you may take the red pill and see the light outside the dark world of "everything's a conspiracy". I've had this conversation too many times unsuccessfully to know you can't be reasoned with, you have to come to the realization of how the world actually works yourself. I could point out the real-world conditions, like how indie artists are outselling majors as of two years ago, or that distribution outlets have brought about access to more music by active musicians than ever, or that there are more alternate approaches to getting heard than ever before, or that the middle class in music is a big as ever, with more viable ways to at least survive off of music than ever, with the big record labels holding the least amount of power they ever have, but I already know that makes no difference to you. You'd rather play victim to an oppressive system.

So feel free to continue down the path of negatively and speculatively judging that which you'll never know, and putting everything that people say into some preset counter-position that you know how to argue, never actually addressing any of their points. . .
One day you might actually stop the rose-colored glasses, all is bliss scheme of repressive & oblivious ignorance. In your view, the current pop music product & hype-based paradigm is perfect, deserving to be worshipped unconditionally and unanimously, and those who pick it apart are delusional conspiracy theorists. Dare I say that it is your view which is actually delusional and entirely misplaced.

So feel free to continue down the path of corporate conglomeration, stifling art and producing pawns with their rice paper songs on steroids, and the subsequent "Copy & Paste Mumford & Sons + Copy & Paste EDM pounding kick = divinely creative genius" reaction to the gimmick.

You can even come around with the bandwagon, bullhorn and bullwhip, ordering everyone to jump aboard without scrutiny, hurling out the insults when they don't abide by your amazingly shallow no-bar / low-bar non-standard.
Old 4th March 2014
  #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
This says nothing about internal motivations though. If you love the challenge of writing hits then you love the game and you love your work.
That's circular and amazingly shallow reasoning with no paradigm scrutiny whatsoever on your part (no surprise there). It's really as if you are a duped, gullible & conformist (likely wannabe) member of their cultish clique.

You are implicitly guessing that their motivations are indeed nobly artistic and rooted in genuine artistry as opposed to the well documented assembly of a clinical & strategic process resulting in a contrived mechanical construct. Insiders to the Dr. Luke writing collabs have even stated that (the latter scenario) is the case, putting you in totally blind denial.

Since you have speculated (implicitly) that their motivations are nobly and deeply rooted in freely inspired artistic expression, I will simply counter that by reiterating the idea that they are loving the game due to a Pavlovian monetary reward response and the power of their enshrined position as industry dominators.
Old 4th March 2014
  #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deepc0re View Post
Without the luxury of contact networks and promotion managers. Good luck competing with all the other striving soundalike clones spamming "hey check out my songs" in youtube comments
It's amazing some would actually deny the predominant importance of such a factor.

If everyone on this site (and every other site) would suddenly embrace the current pop music paradigm formula/strategy, the odds of one crawling through the extremely narrow window of opportunity into the very constrictive corridor of success would still be 1/1000.

And the assumption that's it's inherently desirable for every musical artist to do that is also highly dubious, as is the notion that everyone is claiming that it's easy to do.
Old 4th March 2014
  #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marquez View Post
Dr. Luke has also said at the ASCAP conference, that in order to consistently write/produce at a high level, doing it for the money does not work, you have to be in it for the music.

I am currently in my final months of my bachelor program, and I have often experienced that (aspiring) professional musicians seem to be out of touch with the general public taste. This seems strange to me...
His rhetoric doesn't matter as much that his actions matter (this is applicable to all people in positions of extremely disproportionate power), and all of his songs are sheets of factory rice paper, bloated on production steroids, hyped to the extreme without substance and with the same redeeming cultural value of a Mcdonalds meal or a Bangladeshi t-shirt.

The general public's taste has moved well beyond the narrow Billboard Top-40 corridor. The people who stick to that are in the minority.

And it's not about accepting the right of trite, disposable pop songs and those who write them to have a place in pop music. They do and they should. Instead, it's about the obliteration of any alternative to that model.

There's some good music out there, most provided outside of the shrinking, constrictive, highly corporate Billboard corridor. Finding it, according to your own personal preferences, however, can be very challenging and time consuming.
Old 4th March 2014
  #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnalia Barcus View Post
Again, wtf are you talking about?
Again, you are apparently clueless about your own previously stated belief that you are entitled to objectively refute and invalidate other people's subjective artistic assessments and preferences, not realizing that those personal standards are not being imposed on you in any way.

Just because you personally disagree with another person's assessment, doesn't mean it becomes invalid for the person applying that preferred standard.
Old 4th March 2014
  #234
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason West View Post

Hey... where's pop songwriter Chris Lago? Paging Chris Lago! Hey buddy, can you give us some of your non-pandering mode songs? All of gearslutz dudes are your dearest buddies aren't we? Let us in on your inner circle so we can be proven correct about this "pandering" theory.
Old 4th March 2014
  #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marquez View Post
My point is, at the time "wake me up" was very innovative composition and sound wise.
That's your personal opinion, assessment and interpretation, which you are entitled to, but you are not entitled to universally impose it as an absolute fact.

Another equally valid one, is that it's more of a cheap trick, a sort of elementary pseudo-creativity which copies one contemporary musical style blatantly, adds to that the copying of another very simple isolated element of contemporary production, and puts it forth under the guise of artistic greatness. Looking at the looping and unimaginative chord pattern, vocal delivery, melodic theme, trite instrumental break (done twice for effect), overall predictability and repetitiveness will uncover more possible interpretations in regards to compositional "innovation".

Depending on the perspective of the individual viewer, one assessment might be preferred over another.

There may also be a "c, d, e or f" or even "none of the above" perspective on the song.

Again, just because one encounters a more critical assessment doesn't mean it invalidates another person's less critical assessment. And the latter cannot be unilaterally imposed on the former either.

IOW, everyone is entitled to their own unique interpretation, which should have a certain sanctity and space.
Old 4th March 2014
  #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason West View Post
You're making the flawed analysis of working backwards from the money and assuming these songs are made in some type of detached and calculated manner.
(This could go on forever, so we should agree to disagree and get back to stating our own personally appropriate, unique opinions on the song in this thread. It seems to be the only antidote to the loop)

It may actually be you who is providing a flawed interpretation, by faithfully adhering to the restated claim that their songwriting approach is NOT inherently based on a formulaic & mechanical approach and NOT overtly calculated in a highly contrived, extremely conscious, methodical manner. You think we are working backwards, when there is actually much more reasoning (both inductive and deductive) going on as well as more investigative scrutiny of compiled evidence than you think.

We've all stated our views on the matter repeatedly, let's let them be and allow each person to pick their favorite view on the matter, or come up with one uniquely their own. This discussion is becoming less and less elaborative and more predictably circular (much like modern day pop music harmonic structures).
Old 4th March 2014
  #237
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marquez View Post
My point is, at the time "wake me up" was very innovative composition and sound wise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldon2975 View Post
That's your personal opinion, assessment and interpretation, which you are entitled to, but you are not entitled to universally impose it as an absolute fact.

...

IOW, everyone is entitled to their own unique interpretation, which should have a certain sanctity and space.
Wrong. Don't quote incomplete statements, please. I explained in my post, that "wake me up" at the time was a unique and new sound, avicii (+ his team) took risks and were pretty creative. There was OBJECTIVELY no other music like it around at the time. That is not my own interpretation but a fact, whether you like it or not.


Quote:
Originally Posted by eldon2975 View Post

The general public's taste has moved well beyond the narrow Billboard Top-40 corridor. The people who stick to that are in the minority.
Wrong again. Check out spotify top lists (not the billboard app), check out vevo hits, youtube hits, and so on....
The general public's taste is pretty much in line with Billboard Top 40.
Old 4th March 2014
  #238
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GJ999x's Avatar
Keep going guys! I sense you're close to reaching a consensus on these issues.
Old 4th March 2014
  #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marquez View Post
Wrong. Don't quote incomplete statements, please. I explained in my post, that "wake me up" at the time was a unique and new sound, avicii (+ his team) took risks and were pretty creative. There was OBJECTIVELY no other music like it around at the time. That is not my own interpretation but a fact, whether you like it or not.




Wrong again. Check out spotify top lists (not the billboard app), check out vevo hits, youtube hits, and so on....
The general public's taste is pretty much in line with Billboard Top 40.
Nope.

Wake Me Up could be heard as extremely innovative or as a minimally creative, contrived attempt at original musical art, depending on the individual perspective involved.

And it's delusional to assume that the majority of the earth's 7 billion people are locked positively in step with those narrow, mainstream sources. The Youtube and Vevo hits could involve many neutral listeners and listeners with unfavorable reactions. Also, this.

youtube hits programs - Google Search

Those who hype the latest 21st century pop music "masterpiece" always seem to state opinion as fact, not allowing any dissenting views to their supposedly objective proclamations. And they actually delude themselves into thinking the majority of listeners are on the bandwagon, hooting and hollering with them and their hype.
Old 4th March 2014
  #240
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by eldon2975 View Post
Nope.

And it's delusional to assume that the majority of the earth's 7 billion people are locked positively in step with those narrow, mainstream sources. The Youtube and Vevo hits could involve many neutral listeners and listeners with unfavorable reactions.
Dude, come on, admit when you are wrong or backup your opinions with some common sense or better yet with some facts.

Today people have the choice to listen to almost every piece of music ever recorded at almost no cost. You seriously assume people choose spending their limited and valuable time listening to something they don't like?
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