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Avicii's 'Wake Me Up' hits 200 million streams in Spotify. Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 2nd March 2014
  #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Lago View Post
You're right, want a cookie? I think I need to add another doofus in my ignore list, because clearly, some people come here to argue. I don't like to debate just to debate, keep living your life, and leave the rest of us dreamers alone.
And to think the above was in response to me trying to be complimentary and harmonious.

Oh well.
Old 2nd March 2014
  #152
Don't quote me, you're in my ignore list, I can't see your post nor do I want to!
Old 2nd March 2014
  #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
I was attempting to use your zero-play Haydn example to show the importance of culturally relevant ideas in creating a current cultural impact, since that's an ongoing topic here.
I think that the term "cultural relevance" cant be put into the same sentence with anything chart-pop-alike.

the cultural relevance of pop-music is/was ever close to zero. I am talking musical content. pop-musik is the white-noise-soundtrack for every day. it doesnt matter. it matters as much as the color of the Walmart toilets. you take it as it is an move on.

look at Gearslutz .. a topic starts about musical content und whoops everbody talks about preamps-coloring, analog/digital, marketing, hype and "the people outside" of Gearslutz and their behaviour.

the masses are not interested in musical content, they are interested in a quick and dirty kick out of SOME music, doent matter what it is, as long as it fits to some momentary mood.

as is done here (not only here, in every musicians forum). music is not listened to out of "cultural interest", culture doesnt matter, never did, not in what is called pop-musik.

so Haydn worked his ass off (sorry) and no masses were interested in it. even not in his times. his works were brought to the few who managed to get to a church where his work was presented - in a mass, not in a concert - and they took it for granted, it was what it was. no cultural interest. noone was asked about their feelings regarding his music. so they did what all the people nowadays do: they consumed it without taking further notice.

so I am sure, that we "musicians" make some mistakes: 1. we think, that we could get behind the mystery of what people would like to hear. no, we cant. people dont know what they would like to hear. so we shoot into the dark and blame marketing, hype and what not for our not success. 2. we think that our thinking is relevant and that it matters, what gear, what style, what attitude, whatever will make it. no, nothing matters. the masses consume what the find and like and noone will ever get it in a foresight what they will like.

masses go with the flow ... and the problem of us musicians nowadays is to find at first hand where the flow is and then figure out where it goes.

and it changes direction all the time. we will never get it, because we are thinking in terms that the masses are never thinking in. they dont think!

lucky Haydn! he got a job to write this mass and delivered. lucky we, that he delivered and that this work was not forgotten.

what would he think, if he came with a time machine and would see us debating these things? I think he would palmface, turn around, and try to get into what we call pop-music. maybe he would get it. maybe not. maybe he would end up endlessly discussing here on gearslutz, about digital church-organ samplebanks ...

so, there is no "cultural interest or context" in these things like Avicii. its irrelevant, because the musical content is irrelevant. it a hit. so? hits come and go ... there is nothing to analyze ...
Old 2nd March 2014
  #154
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteaxxxe View Post
I think that the term "cultural relevance" cant be put into the same sentence with anything chart-pop-alike.

the cultural relevance of pop-music is/was ever close to zero. I am talking musical content. pop-musik is the white-noise-soundtrack for every day. it doesnt matter. it matters as much as the color of the Walmart toilets. you take it as it is an move on.

look at Gearslutz .. a topic starts about musical content und whoops everbody talks about preamps-coloring, analog/digital, marketing, hype and "the people outside" of Gearslutz and their behaviour.

the masses are not interested in musical content, they are interested in a quick and dirty kick out of SOME music, doent matter what it is, as long as it fits to some momentary mood.

as is done here (not only here, in every musicians forum). music is not listened to out of "cultural interest", culture doesnt matter, never did, not in what is called pop-musik.

so Haydn worked his ass off (sorry) and no masses were interested in it. even not in his times. his works were brought to the few who managed to get to a church where his work was presented - in a mass, not in a concert - and they took it for granted, it was what it was. no cultural interest. noone was asked about their feelings regarding his music. so they did what all the people nowadays do: they consumed it without taking further notice.

so I am sure, that we "musicians" make some mistakes: 1. we think, that we could get behind the mystery of what people would like to hear. no, we cant. people dont know what they would like to hear. so we shoot into the dark and blame marketing, hype and what not for our not success. 2. we think that our thinking is relevant and that it matters, what gear, what style, what attitude, whatever will make it. no, nothing matters. the masses consume what the find and like and noone will ever get it in a foresight what they will like.

masses go with the flow ... and the problem of us musicians nowadays is to find at first hand where the flow is and then figure out where it goes.

and it changes direction all the time. we will never get it, because we are thinking in terms that the masses are never thinking in. they dont think!

lucky Haydn! he got a job to write this mass and delivered. lucky we, that he delivered and that this work was not forgotten.

what would he think, if he came with a time machine and would see us debating these things? I think he would palmface, turn around, and try to get into what we call pop-music. maybe he would get it. maybe not. maybe he would end up endlessly discussing here on gearslutz, about digital church-organ samplebanks ...

so, there is no "cultural interest or context" in these things like Avicii. its irrelevant, because the musical content is irrelevant. it a hit. so? hits come and go ... there is nothing to analyze ...
And I think that's what made me a better songwriter, by also becoming a listener and not just a guy producing music. It's always good to go out with friends, have some drinks, dance a bit, see what's good when you're on the dancefloor. See how people react to certain songs etc.
Old 2nd March 2014
  #155
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Carnalia Barcus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by eldon2975 View Post
true art.
Old 2nd March 2014
  #156
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GJ999x's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteaxxxe View Post
the masses are not interested in musical content, they are interested in a quick and dirty kick out of SOME music, doent matter what it is, as long as it fits to some momentary mood.

as is done here (not only here, in every musicians forum). music is not listened to out of "cultural interest", culture doesnt matter, never did, not in what is called pop-musik.
Hmmmm not sure about this, musical content is subjective - otherwise what, only classical counts? There are a lot of people who probably know more about music and have more virtuoso skills than any of us, some of whom think everything in the 21st century was a bit of a joke.

"musical content" as you used it is totally subjective, and it just doesnt make sense to say that people who love the avicii track dont love "musical content", i recomend going out and talking to them. Try to convince them to like your stuff instead, and as you do remember how you took it when yo were young and an oldie / muso dismissed the music you liked and asked why you werent capable of loving [irrelevant act x] instead.

Was it in this thread that someone said "the beatles didnt pick up banjos of their forefathers, they created."

Coffee making this sound more forceful than it's meant
Old 2nd March 2014
  #157
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Carnalia Barcus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
Rock hasn't seen a significant stylistic development in more than a quarter century . . .
That's one of those things that one can make easily non-falsifiable depending on how much rhetorical work one wants to do re interpretation. "Significant", "stylistic development" and even "rock" are all hedgeable terms that enable this (one can say--"Well, that wasn't really significant though", or "That wasn't really stylistic development", or "That's not really rock" etc.).

Likewise, one could argue, non-falsifiably, that there are significant stylistic developments in rock every year. It again just depends on the amount of rhetorical work one wants to do re interpreting those terms.

In other words, all such statements really tell us is to what extent one wants to jump through rhetorical hoops to not be wrong. The way around that is to well-define the terms, in a way that's correlated to objective, objectively checkable facts, so that there's a clear way that the the claim can be falsifiable.
Old 2nd March 2014
  #158
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Carnalia Barcus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteaxxxe View Post
the cultural relevance of pop-music is/was ever close to zero.
What the heck would you be using "cultural relevance" to refer to if "The cultural relevance of pop music is close to zero" is a true statement in your view?

<DELETED BY MODERATOR>
Old 2nd March 2014
  #159
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnalia Barcus View Post
What the heck would you be using "cultural relevance" to refer to if "The cultural relevance of pop music is close to zero" is a true statement in your view?
This boggled me a bit aswell. If anything, pop music (as in popular music) has the biggest cultural impact of any genre. We`ve got half a generation screaming "YOLO" and "SWAG" because of pop music. People change the way they dress because they identify with pop music performers. Look at the dominance of american (and somewhat british) music in terms of spreading messages and trends all over the world. It`s incredible.
Old 2nd March 2014
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Lago View Post
Don't quote me, you're in my ignore list, I can't see your post nor do I want to!

Delusional fanboi's ignore list must be a mile long.

Giving away cookies now.



HW
Old 2nd March 2014
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by initialsBB View Post
Where do you live where they still play metal on the radio!?
Northern US near the Canadian border. What do they play in your area on modern "rock" stations? I don't get your question.
Old 2nd March 2014
  #162
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Triscuit's Avatar
Last evening I was watching St. Vincent from the balcony at 9:30 Club; I leaned to my friend (the one who told me of Avicii) and asked, "Hey - did you hear that that Avicii song hit 200 million plays on Spotify?" And we shared a brief laugh (because we were enjoying St. Vincent), and he said, "Oh! The song that the guitar player from Incubus wrote?"

Back to OP:
All this time we've been knocking Avicii, when it's really Mike Einziger we should be after!
Old 2nd March 2014
  #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triscuit View Post
Last evening I was watching St. Vincent from the balcony at 9:30 Club;
You said rock is dead!? Why the sudden interest in a rock band like St. Vincent? She's an experimental rock performer more than anything else. She's a perfect example of why rock is not yet dead.
Old 2nd March 2014
  #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Case View Post
You said rock is dead!? Why the sudden interest in a rock band like St. Vincent? She's an experimental rock performer more than anything else. She's a perfect example of why rock is not yet dead.
Hold please.

I was sharing some quotes from an email that I felt relevant to these lashings everyone is throwing out here with not a single end in sight; not surprised. The quip about rock and roll being the music of a specific generation had more to do with the attitudes that the listeners have versus the evolution of the genre itself.

I will refrain from being snarky or sarcastic regarding your condescending and presumptuous comment about my, "sudden interest in a rock band like St. Vincent." I listen to enough music to satisfy my desire of finding what moves me; I don't shun music.

Y'all are tough around here; everyone is a critic with the dreams of having all of this insane gear and elaborate setups that you forget why people put three chords together in the first place.
Old 2nd March 2014
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triscuit View Post
I will refrain from being snarky or sarcastic regarding your condescending and presumptuous comment about my, "sudden interest in a rock band like St. Vincent." I listen to enough music to satisfy my desire of finding what moves me; I don't shun music.
No snarkyness intended. When you say rock is dead, then you have to expect some rebuttal. My point is that there are modern rock artists taking it to the next level. People think rock is dead, when it's not. There are many new interesting rock acts. All you need to do is break out of the metal/gunge mentality to find them. I love St. Vincent. Now if only the mass media would figure this out then we would be in better shape.
Old 2nd March 2014
  #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnalia Barcus View Post
These snobby anti-pop arguments in this thread are a complete mess.
So, you resort to calling people snobs because they don't fully embrace a pop music paradigm totally dominated by the Dr. Luke approach to songwriting ? Must we unanimously praise the masterful "art-pop" of Gaga's ''Applause" or be called elitists ? The "accept everything, it's all good, don't complain, shut off your critical faculties" stance is always an exercise in intellectual vacancy and hypocrisy.

I wonder what names people who refuse to eat at McDonald's deserve to be called...
Old 2nd March 2014
  #167
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Triscuit's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Case View Post
No snarkyness intended. When you say rock is dead, then you have to expect some rebuttal. My point is that there are modern rock artists taking it to the next level. People think rock is dead, when it's not. There are many new interesting rock acts. All you need to do is break out of the metal/gunge mentality to find them. I love St. Vincent. Now if only the mass media would figure this out then we would be in better shape.
Noted, and I don't mean to get on the defense. The fact of the matter, is that I am a fan of rock and roll; it's what I grew up on, in my head it will not ever die.

And for the record: St. Vincent was out of control; she's a beast of some other breed - captivating and talented. Like a white, female Jimi Hendrix? Maybe that's pushing it, but hot damn she was sexy and making her guitar do all sorts of nasty things.
Old 2nd March 2014
  #168
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Herr Weiss's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteaxxxe View Post

so Haydn worked his ass off (sorry) and no masses were interested in it. even not in his times. his works were brought to the few who managed to get to a church where his work was presented - in a mass, not in a concert - and they took it for granted, it was what it was. no cultural interest. noone was asked about their feelings regarding his music. so they did what all the people nowadays do: they consumed it without taking further notice.

lucky Haydn! he got a job to write this mass and delivered. lucky we, that he delivered and that this work was not forgotten. .

Herr whiteaxxxe:

True that Joseph Haydn struggled at the beginning of his career but writing masses got nothing to do with his success.

"He was one of the most celebrated composers in Europe" and rubbed shoulders with royalty on a daily basis. Haydn's music is still heard everywhere and always will be.

Joseph Haydn - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

HW
Old 2nd March 2014
  #169
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by eldon2975 View Post
So, you resort to calling people snobs because they don't fully embrace a pop music paradigm totally dominated by the Dr. Luke approach to songwriting ? Must we unanimously praise the masterful "art-pop" of Gaga's ''Applause" or be called elitists ? The "accept everything, it's all good, don't complain, shut off your critical faculties" stance is always an exercise in intellectual vacancy and hypocrisy.

I wonder what names people who refuse to eat at McDonald's deserve to be called...
Should have said Wal-Mart, now you just sound silly
Old 2nd March 2014
  #170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnalia Barcus View Post
That's one of those things that one can make easily non-falsifiable depending on how much rhetorical work one wants to do re interpretation. "Significant", "stylistic development" and even "rock" are all hedgeable terms that enable this (one can say--"Well, that wasn't really significant though", or "That wasn't really stylistic development", or "That's not really rock" etc.).

Likewise, one could argue, non-falsifiably, that there are significant stylistic developments in rock every year. It again just depends on the amount of rhetorical work one wants to do re interpreting those terms.

In other words, all such statements really tell us is to what extent one wants to jump through rhetorical hoops to not be wrong. The way around that is to well-define the terms, in a way that's correlated to objective, objectively checkable facts, so that there's a clear way that the the claim can be falsifiable.
Sure, I'm all about qualifiers, as I know you can tell. (And I often live to regret when I forget.)

But, honestly, as someone who was intensely passionate about rock for many years, it seems quite clear to me that there hasn't been much in the way of stylistic innovation or evolution in rock in decades. It just kind of festers in stylistic pockets. Looks to me like rock has a circulation problem. heh
Old 2nd March 2014
  #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FAMPF View Post
Should have said Wal-Mart, now you just sound silly
They are principally interchangeable and mutually compatible. In fact, there's often a McDonalds found inside a Wal-Mart.

Get it ? Got it?

Good.
Old 2nd March 2014
  #172
Gear Addict
 

Well yea why wouldn't McDonald's be inside of Wal-Mart they like what they're doing
Old 2nd March 2014
  #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triscuit View Post
And for the record: St. Vincent was out of control; she's a beast of some other breed - captivating and talented. Like a white, female Jimi Hendrix? Maybe that's pushing it, but hot damn she was sexy and making her guitar do all sorts of nasty things.
Here's a great interview with her explaining some of her guitar techniques.
St. Vincent - Guitar Moves - Episode 8 - YouTube
Old 2nd March 2014
  #174
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I think it would be a great idea for someone to start a new thread, stating categorically that rock ain't dead (and actually provide evidence for the claim).

It would really inspire many of us who have dogmatically believed the mainstream notion that it's gone for good.
Old 2nd March 2014
  #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Lago View Post
Well, life is a gamble, tomorrow I might not wake up so what? It's not gonna stop me from doing what I love in life. It's not about odds and making it, it's about being happy in your life, accepting where you are right now, and working towards your own vision of how you'd want to live in the world. If we wouldn't have that as human beings, we wouldn't want to live! I'd rather look at the positives in life, I see the glass as half full, if other people don't, well too bad for them, that's their problem. It's pretty clear that you're trying to argue for the sake of arguing, I'd rather not spent any minute of my life doing that. Have fun arguing with other people on here. It won't be me!
I see the glass as always full!
Old 2nd March 2014
  #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eldon2975 View Post
It would really inspire many of us who have dogmatically believed the mainstream notion that it's gone for good.
Be brave, tenacious, and creative, and chop your own path thru the jungle.
Old 2nd March 2014
  #177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Case View Post
Here's a great interview with her explaining some of her guitar techniques.
St. Vincent - Guitar Moves - Episode 8 - YouTube
She seems like a nice gal -- I really like that her uncle is Tuck Andress (of Tuck and Patty -- a heck of a hybrid style player -- not really my thing, but a very impressive showman).

Here's her unc:
Old 2nd March 2014
  #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eldon2975 View Post
Either way you/we are going to be guessing (hopefully in an educated manner) about what his (or any writers) true motivations are. It's impossible to avoid.

This is where you're wrong. Underlying motivations never need to enter into the picture, unless the artist themselves has brought them to the table. Otherwise, the base assumption is that people do what they like.

You're not a mind reader. Negatively passing judgement on the unknown reasons for why someone does something is quite sanctimonious. You're really stretching to put yourself up on a pedestal in order to needlessly criticize other people from a personal place, when the discussion should stop at the analysis of their music.
Old 2nd March 2014
  #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triscuit View Post
Last evening I was watching St. Vincent from the balcony at 9:30 Club; I leaned to my friend (the one who told me of Avicii) and asked, "Hey - did you hear that that Avicii song hit 200 million plays on Spotify?" And we shared a brief laugh (because we were enjoying St. Vincent), and he said, "Oh! The song that the guitar player from Incubus wrote?"

Back to OP:
All this time we've been knocking Avicii, when it's really Mike Einziger we should be after!
Indeed. And Aloe Blacc. Was a true cross-genre collab.

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/9895836-post6.html
Old 2nd March 2014
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Case View Post
Their "ep" named Bangarang was an album by almost any definition. It has seven separate tracks. That's an album.

And if it's not an album, then Rolling Stone got it wrong. They named Bangarang the fourteenth greatest EDM album of all time. I guess they need to learn they can't call an album an album anymore. It's simply not politically correct.

It's just BS not to call an ep an album.
Fair enough.
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